China renews their crackdown on the internet

[Calax]

lifted up into heaven could mean anything... doesn't solve much. but then this is a guy who fell off the face of the earth and lived with a whore... he probably got sifilus or somthing

[EnderAndrew]

lifted up into heaven could mean anything... doesn't solve much. but then this is a guy who fell off the face of the earth and lived with a whore... he probably got sifilus or somthing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Bible seems fairly clear that Jesus is alive and didn't die a second time which is an important distinction.

 

Islam branched off and insists that Jesus couldn't be the Son of God, because God can't die. They see Jesus as dead, and thusly not divine.

[jaguars4ever]

ID better stop this joke before I say something really offensive. I had another joke comming but I fear it was over the line by a kilometer or two

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh do tell us Brother Kaft...in the name of comedy.

[julianw]

Islam branched off and insists that Jesus couldn't be the Son of God, because God can't die.  They see Jesus as dead, and thusly not divine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's true that Muslims do not believe in the Holy Trinity, but all prophets are manifestations of God, so they certainly believe that Jesus is divine, just not greater than Muhammad.

Muhammad stated it himself that Christ is a true prophet of God and the words he spoke are unquestionably the words of God.

[EnderAndrew]

His words are the true words of God, except when Jesus said that he was one with God, or that he was God's son, or that no man reached Heaven except through him, or that he was resurrected, etc.

 

C.S. Lewis was paid lump sums of money to debunk the Bible since he was such a smart cookie. C.S. Lewis went from devout aethist to devout Christian after pouring over the Bible.

 

He said that you can't accept that Jesus was a prophet and discount that he was the Son of God, because you can't accept 95% of his teachings and then someone assume he was bonkers when he said that no man may reach Heaven accept through him.

 

If he was egomaniacal and crazy, then he wasn't a very good teacher, role model or prophet.

 

I believe it was in the Screwtape Letters.

[julianw]

I guess it all depends on how you interpret what exactly is the Son of God then. If God is the Sun that cannot be seen with the human eye, then all prophets are mirrors reflecting the sunlight onto this world. God manifests itself in all prophets. Is Jesus Christ the man actually God? Of course not. Islam never argued whether Christ is the Son of God or not, only that Christ is not God himself.

 

Christ did say that "nobody goes to the Father but through me." But here I ask: what was he referring to with 'me'? Is it Christ the human or what his essence represents? If it's the latter then I believe Muhammad or Moses both are part of what Christ's essence represented.

 

As for whether Christ is resurrected, it's of little significance to his religion. Muslim scholars see those lines in the Bible as metaphors of Christ's influence and power. The fact of the matter is that Christ's teachings and his influence on mankind did not die through his crucifixion. His followers grew across the globe and the Bible is the most popular book on this planet. Those are what mattered. Was Christ the man resurrected? It cannot be proved either way today, but should it change our view on his religion?

[EnderAndrew]

Christ said pretty plainly that he died and was resurrected. He also said that no man reaches Heaven except via him.

 

Either you believe that Christ is actually the Son of God, or that phrases comes off more as something David Koresh says.

 

You can't say that Christ spoke the True Word of God, and then suddenly ignore Christ's message.

[julianw]

Well. If you want to read the Bible word for word then I won't argue any further. I offered some of non-Christians' interpretations of the Bible and its metaphors. If they make no sense whatsoever to you then I really can't elaborate any further on them.

 

The Bible also said Christ would return descending from the sky amidst water vapors. I for one is not going to look for him coming down from outer-space.

[EnderAndrew]

The problem is that interpretation would be greatly inconsistent. Most prophets in the Bible, well every single one save for Jesus if you classify him as a prophet, were largely selfless. They didn't appreciate being thrusted forward, and didn't take credit for being a personal vessel to reach God through.

 

Did Daniel or John the Baptist say you reach God through them? No, they were extremely humble and kept the message away from themselves.

 

When a guy says that you can't get to Heaven except through him, whatever means, the road goes through him. Either he is an extreme narcisist or he's telling the truth.

 

Again, pick one.

[julianw]

We know that the Bible contains only retellings of Christ's words. I agree that the line which says "nobody goes to the Father but through Me" seems clear enough. But there are also lines in the Bible that contradicts this one, so let me ask you this, from your understanding of Christ and the Bible as a whole, do you believe Christ, if he is truly just and merciful, would abandon a pious Buddhist who devoted his whole life to God's service? And what about all the people before Christ? Where shall they receive their salvation?

 

This discussion about Christ's nature is most likely going to be fruitless if we limit the discussion within the Bible. There have been three wide known prophets who claimed to be God themselves: Christ, Muhammad, and the Buddha. Is it a coincidence that they each founded one of the three major religions today?

 

I believe that they are indeed greater than all other prophets before or after them. Should they be called God as their followers have done? I think they should be. Their words concerning God and His religion are final in each of their own religions. They can change the laws set by previous prophets and they have added new laws and brought new scriptures and all three prophesized their own return. Coincidence again?

[EnderAndrew]

There are those that believe that when Christ said nobody, he only really meant Christians, and that his words didn't apply to those that didn't really want to listen to them.

 

Again, I think this is a stretch and a cop-out. But there is a prevailing theory that all paths lead to the same Heaven, except this would contradict the repeated messages in the Bible that few will get to Heaven.

 

The Bible says that before all is said and done, everyone will have the chance to hear God's message and decide. Does this mean there is reincarnation? Does this mean those that didn't receive the Gospel get a free pass? Does this mean all roads lead to Heaven?

 

That doesn't seem very clear.

 

What does seem clear and consistent in the Bible is the message of God handing out free will. Some feel that God is a tyrant for denying Heaven to all, but one could argue that is not condemning anyone. We either strike a path to Heaven of our own free will, or we don't.

 

And really that is pretty consistent with other major religions, yet Christianity is the one where God is made out to be such a bully.