Civ IV

[EnderAndrew]

One of my gripes with Civ III that I didn't see addressed was how abundant corruption was in the game, but we'll see how that plays out in the new game.

 

I'm really looking forward to establishing my own new style of government.

[alanschu]

Sounds like Religion will have the original, static bonuses that governments have historically had in Civ games.

 

 

I think the corruption was mostly used to curtail excessive expansion, and it sounds like they have something else in mind for that this time around. No idea what they plan on doing with corruption.

[Calax]

This time you have Maintence. I hope they dont' try to borrow Rebellions maintence system, That flat out encourages Expantionist tendancys.

[alanschu]

Well...they have said they want to limit expansionism so that it's not required to do well in the game.

[Calax]

I'm happy about the Expansionistic tendansy's being whacked. I was never Expantionist I was a cultural Marvel tho.

[Guest Fishboot]

The bit about not being able to roll over production between improvements (particularly wonders) is a bit disturbing. It sounds like it might lead to very aggressive early games where you can't shoot for a good wonder but settle for a decent one - instead having such a setback as a heavily "wasted" wonder attempt will cause you to fall very far behind, maybe so far that the game will have to be abandoned.

 

I dunno, it's funny that I can form an opinion about such a microscopic point of a game - that shows how deeply salted the Civ mechanics are in gamer culture.

[EnderAndrew]

It makes wonders more of a gamble. As is wonders are pretty powerful.

[alanschu]

Yup. You still get some sort of compensation if it doesn't succeed however.

 

I always thought it was kind of silly that when I built a big giant wonder, the AI would just switch over to the next one it had and not lose any time.

[EnderAndrew]

It depends in the AI had discovered the tech for multiple wonders at that time.

[Calax]

I wish davinci's workshop was the same in Civ3 as it was in CTP.

[Reveilled]

I wonder what those religious bonuses will be in CivIV. Originally, they said that the religions would not provide specific bonuses, just general ones that were the same for each religion.

 

Perhaps they might restrict your access to different governmental forms? Like maybe a Buddhist civilization can't have "Wealth" as a national value, or a Taoist government having "police state" or "totalitarianism" as part of it's governmental structure.

 

On that note, I must say I find it curious that Firaxis would choose Taoism over Confucianism for one of their religions. Taoism, as I understand it, never really has been a state religion, while Confucianism was the state "religion" of China for centuries. I mean, including Judaism was strange in my opinion, but at least there have been historical states with a Jewish national religion, even if Judaism hasn't really spread through conversion the way other religions have.

[EnderAndrew]

What about Shinto?

[Reveilled]

What about Shinto?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Shinto in Japan is rather intertwined with Buddhism, so if one is limiting the religions, Buddhism at least makes sense in Japan. Sikhism also is not included, yet that too unlike Taoism was once the religion of an Independent State.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I wonder what those religious bonuses will be in CivIV.  Originally, they said that the religions would not provide specific bonuses, just general ones that were the same for each religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they're going to give each religion characteristics such as military or commercial bonuses, they're heading into dangerous territory. I would rather they let you upgrade and develop your own religion in the way you wish, so that the religions in the game can be diverse, but not attempting to reflect their real life characteristics.

On that note, I must say I find it curious that Firaxis would choose Taoism over Confucianism for one of their religions.  Taoism, as I understand it, never really has been a state religion, while Confucianism was the state "religion" of China for centuries.  I mean, including Judaism was strange in my opinion, but at least there have been historical states with a Jewish national religion, even if Judaism hasn't really spread through conversion the way other religions have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Confucianism is arguably not a religion, in the usual sense of the English word. It's more of a moral code for how to live your life. That might be one reason for choosing Daoism instead. Still, Confucianism has certainly proved to have the power and appeal of a religion. China and Viet Nam are a fascinating blend of Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism and now atheism. Perhaps having Daoism/Confucianism in Civ IV as a single religion would have been best.

 

I wonder if Civ 4 will have communist governments, and how they will handle religion. By rights, communist government are supposed to be atheist, in theory at any rate.

[Reveilled]

Confucianism is arguably not a religion, in the usual sense of the English word.  It's more of a moral code for how to live your life.  That might be one reason for choosing Daoism instead.   Still, Confucianism has certainly proved to have the power and appeal of a religion.  China and Viet Nam are a fascinating blend of Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism and now atheism.  Perhaps having Daoism/Confucianism in Civ IV as a single religion would have been best.

 

I wonder if Civ 4 will have communist governments, and how they will handle religion.  By rights, communist government are supposed to be atheist, in theory at any rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I put religion in quotes for that reason when referring to Confucianism as a state religion. Are Taoism and Confucianism similar enough to be consered a single relgion? I've never done a great deal of reading on either, but I was always under the impression that Confucianism stressed Stability, Authoritarianism and Altruism, while Taoism was a religion that emphasised Individualism and Minarchism.

 

As to how communism will work, I would guess that because Government in CivIV will be more like SMAC than other civs, there will be a governmental option regarding your State's relation to religion, probably with the options "Religious", "Secular", and "Atheist". Probably also "Theocratic" and possibly "Plural". As you go progressively down the list toward Atheism, you are less affected by religions penalties and effects. A Theocratic society gets more bonuses from citizens that share the state religion, and those that don't are more likely to be unhappy, while a Secular one is more likely to dissatisfy citizens of the Majority religion, and an Atheist one (which a typical communist state would have) dissatisfies every religious citizen, but makes your civ immune to the effects nearby religious states create (e.g., while your Muslim citizens are dissatisfied with your Atheist government, a neighbouring Muslim state is unable to convert more of your citizens to its state religion).

That's my guess, anyhow,

[metadigital]

I just read another drip-feed in the latest PC Gamer, apparently the on-line multiplayer will allow closer and more sophisticated alliances; for example it will be possible to jointly research technologies.

 

Sounds like they have been busy implementing interesting stuff, at least.

[Calax]

Depends what type of Communism Steve. The Russians had "no Religion" while China had "The State is your Religion". Confusionism is more a type of gvmt than a religion. But if they did put it in they could make it so it would compliment the bonus' of Taoism