I guess bad endings are fashionable these days

[metadigital]

If Aftermath is going to have a standard retail release, then by definition it is not going to be free. Therefore, I would have to pay an extra to get the rest of the story, a story that should have been complete in the original, which I have already paid for. So... yeah. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, that's a good point, sounds like an expansion, doesn't it? Dang. If you paid for a Silver or Gold pack, though all the stuff released is free, so those people will not have to pay, for sure.

Man, what more story do you need? Any more and they'd have to invest a significant effort in not just narrative, but technological and philosophical constructs -- think of the way all of us yammer on on this board about the smallest inconsistency in SW and think how little of λ

[metadigital]

@Kaftan

 

I assume you aren't an id fanboy because of the "great" stories story they have in their games, right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fixed!

[Morgoth]

@Kaftan

 

I assume you aren't an id fanboy because of the "great" stories story they have in their games, right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fixed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, teacher.

[metadigital]

@Kaftan

I assume you aren't an id fanboy because of the "great" stories story they have in their games, right? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fixed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, teacher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see they're at it again with Resurection of Evil, which is exactly the same plot with a gimped gravity gun thrown in.

 

At least Quake 4 might be good (the previews are promising) -- I don't think Duke Nukem will live up to the hype, though, after changing engines twice (UT2004

Edited May 28, 2005 by metadigital

[mkreku]

Well, Ill just say this- Im not buying another Valve product again. Ill trade this one in for DooM3, which I will love regardless, since Im a an ID Software fanboi and have been since 1993.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know this will hurt an old fanboi's heart, but.. Doom 3 isn't like the original Doom's at all!

 

The first 15 minutes of the game are superb. Great storytelling, lots of interesting characters you want to meet again and get to know, even interesting backgrounds (and a playable arcade!) and then all hell breaks loose and it seems the game just got even better. BUT (that's a big but) from there on it's (almost) all downhill. You'll get a few scares, but since all the scares in the game are almost exactly the same you'll figure them out after a few minutes (unless you are a goldfish). After that they become tedious and predictable. Then prepare for exactly the same darkness, exactly the same spawn patterns (you'll see what I mean when you play the game), exactly the same corridors, exactly the same enemies and exactly the same weapons until you reach the end levels (where the game picked up some speed again).

 

When I reviewed it, I gave it 79/100, but in retrospect I feel that rating might have been a tad too high.

[Darkside]

First of all, there aren't supposed to be any cutscenes. That removes you fromt the action and makes it more like a movie. While this is great for most games, Valve is trying to achieve the effect of immersing you in the action and making you feel like you are Gordon.

 

Second of all, the ambiguous plot is perfect for the point of the game. Gordon isn't on a mission, he isn't on some mystic quest, and he isn't some sort of super hero. He is simply the right man in the wrong place, and this the point Valve is trying to make. The game takes you through these seemingly unconnected events that ultimately leads you to where you need to be at the right second to change an entire world. With this said, I'm sure as the series develops, tiny tidbits spread throughout the games will collect and fall into place, leading into the complex plot with the epic final battle and amazing ending we're all expecting. Valve isn't going to just throw in some cliche plot for every game and tie them together with some sub-standard theme, they're taking their time to develop something truly amazing and immersive. Give them time, making a great game is an art.

[metadigital]

The first 15 minutes of the game are superb. Great storytelling, lots of interesting characters you want to meet again and get to know, even interesting backgrounds (and a playable arcade!) and then all hell breaks loose and it seems the game just got even better. BUT (that's a big but) from there on it's (almost) all downhill. You'll get a few scares, but since all the scares in the game are almost exactly the same you'll figure them out after a few minutes (unless you are a goldfish). After that they become tedious and predictable. Then prepare for exactly the same darkness, exactly the same spawn patterns (you'll see what I mean when you play the game), exactly the same corridors, exactly the same enemies and exactly the same weapons until you reach the end levels (where the game picked up some speed again).

 

When I reviewed it, I gave it 79/100, but in retrospect I feel that rating might have been a tad too high.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, your review probably included an appreciation for the whiz-bang new video technology, which is impressive. But then, as you say, it does get pretty old pretty quickly.

 

I recommend playing on the hardest setting, because you want to enjoy the fighting all the way through, because I doubt whether you'll play it through multiple times.

[213374U]

For free? Nothing in this world is for free. It's still hard work and a very ambitious project for Valve, they can't live from air and love alone, after all. Besides, as long as they deliver quality I'm always willing to pay...

Just what the hell are you talking about? Please read my posts thoroughly before rushing to post incongruent replies.

 

I assumed that any expansions would not be free, precisely for the reasons you wield. Metadigital then said that one of the expansions would be free, but this obviously incompatible with a release in any physical support. In which case you either pay for something you would otherwise get for free, or are forced to have access to a broadband connection to complete the plot of a retail product for which you have supposedly paid already.

 

 

Valve is trying to achieve the effect of immersing you in the action and making you feel like you are Gordon.

That is not an excuse for a total lack of substance, from a storyline standpont.

 

 

Second of all, the ambiguous plot is perfect for the point of the game.  Gordon isn't on a mission, he isn't on some mystic quest, and he isn't some sort of super hero.  He is simply the right man in the wrong place, and this the point Valve is trying to make.

Sorry, but usually people don't grab a gun and make a slaughter just because they are "the right man in the wrong place" or because the authorities want to have a word with them.

 

 

The game takes you through these seemingly unconnected events that ultimately leads you to where you need to be at the right second to change an entire world.  With this said, I'm sure as the series develops, tiny tidbits spread throughout the games will collect and fall into place, leading into the complex plot with the epic final battle and amazing ending we're all expecting.  Valve isn't going to just throw in some cliche plot for every game and tie them together with some sub-standard theme, they're taking their time to develop something truly amazing and immersive. 

Yes, I'm sure they have a lot of great expansions planned, and I'm sure they plan to charge for some of them, too. I just want to know why they sold the first chapter claiming it was a complete product. ID used to do that with Doom too, only they called it "Shareware" and gave it away for free.

 

 

Give them time, making a great game is an art.

HA! Better games have been made in much less time. 6 year development cycle and this is what I get?

 

You've got to be f*cking kidding.

[metadigital]

First of all, there aren't supposed to be any cutscenes.  That removes you fromt the action and makes it more like a movie.  While this is great for most games, Valve is trying to achieve the effect of immersing you in the action and making you feel like you are Gordon.

 

Second of all, the ambiguous plot is perfect for the point of the game.  Gordon isn't on a mission, he isn't on some mystic quest, and he isn't some sort of super hero.  He is simply the right man in the wrong place, and this the point Valve is trying to make.  The game takes you through these seemingly unconnected events that ultimately leads you to where you need to be at the right second to change an entire world.  With this said, I'm sure as the series develops, tiny tidbits spread throughout the games will collect and fall into place, leading into the complex plot with the epic final battle and amazing ending we're all expecting.  Valve isn't going to just throw in some cliche plot for every game and tie them together with some sub-standard theme, they're taking their time to develop something truly amazing and immersive.  Give them time, making a great game is an art.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just read your sig and recalled that was the last thing that the G-man says in the first conversation of the game; your explanation is spot on and I whole-heartedly agree with the λ

[metadigital]

Give them time, making a great game is an art.

HA! Better games have been made in much less time. 6 year development cycle and this is what I get?

 

You've got to be f*cking kidding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are free to not participate, if that is what you desire. No promise was issued, no warranty implied

[Morgoth]

For free? Nothing in this world is for free. It's still hard work and a very ambitious project for Valve, they can't live from air and love alone, after all. Besides, as long as they deliver quality I'm always willing to pay...

Just what the hell are you talking about? Please read my posts thoroughly before rushing to post incongruent replies.

Alright...

If Aftermath is going to have a standard retail release, then by definition it is not going to be free.

Bingo! And it was never meant otherwise, neither via Steam, nor Retail.

 

Therefore, I would have to pay an extra to get the rest of the story,

a story that should have been complete in the original, which I have already paid for.

So... yeah. rolleyes.gif

Sorry, but it sounded like you're somehow dissapointed because you have to pay for Aftermath. But again, why would Valve work a year on an expansion and then release it for free? Just because some people feel HL2's story isn't finished?

[Kaftan Barlast]

To whom it may concern:

 

 

I already played the DooM3 demo so I know what Im up against. My plan is to buy it and force myself to love it as a symbolic act of resistance.

 

 

My ID fanboyism is very deeply rooted. Not only because Ive played every one of their games since it came, and was one of the first to play on the internet. No its much more than that, like how they released a fully playable D3 for Linux(!) Back in my days as a naughty pirate, ID software was one of the few companies we had so much respect for that we never pirated their products.

[alanschu]

Well, Ill just say this- Im not buying another Valve product again. Ill trade this one in for DooM3, which I will love regardless, since Im a an ID Software fanboi and have been since 1993.

 

 

..hey wait a sec, I cant trade Hl2 because Valve wont let anyone else register with my key, correct? #

[The Elite_elite]

Therefore, I would have to pay an extra to get the rest of the story, a story that should have been complete in the original, which I have already paid for. So... yeah. 

 

Sounds like Halo2.

[Archmonarch]

Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like a post of mine to which you objected. Do you know how many people you could piss off by saying that?

[Archmonarch]

As you misunderstood the person to whom I was referring, I apologize for my previous statement. (But I won't delete it.)

[Reveilled]

Well, Ill just say this- Im not buying another Valve product again. Ill trade this one in for DooM3, which I will love regardless, since Im a an ID Software fanboi and have been since 1993.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know this will hurt an old fanboi's heart, but.. Doom 3 isn't like the original Doom's at all!

 

The first 15 minutes of the game are superb. Great storytelling, lots of interesting characters you want to meet again and get to know, even interesting backgrounds (and a playable arcade!) and then all hell breaks loose and it seems the game just got even better. BUT (that's a big but) from there on it's (almost) all downhill. You'll get a few scares, but since all the scares in the game are almost exactly the same you'll figure them out after a few minutes (unless you are a goldfish). After that they become tedious and predictable. Then prepare for exactly the same darkness, exactly the same spawn patterns (you'll see what I mean when you play the game), exactly the same corridors, exactly the same enemies and exactly the same weapons until you reach the end levels (where the game picked up some speed again).

 

When I reviewed it, I gave it 79/100, but in retrospect I feel that rating might have been a tad too high.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That sounds exactly how I remember Doom 1 being, except that Doom 1 didn't have any interesting characters or any scares...

[alanschu]

Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like a post of mine to which you objected. Do you know how many people you could piss off by saying that? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LOL!

[metadigital]

That sounds exactly how I remember Doom 1 being, except that Doom 1 didn't have any interesting characters or any scares...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bingo

[Archmonarch]

Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like a post of mine to which you objected. Do you know how many people you could piss off by saying that? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LOL!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Im glad someone appreciates it.

[213374U]

You are free to not participate, if that is what you desire. No promise was issued, no warranty implied

[alanschu]

If Half-Life 2 doesn't have a story, then how can it possibly be a story driven game?

 

 

And IMO, Half-Life 2 has just as much story as Half-Life 1...without the annoying Xen parts.

[metadigital]

Heh. I knew you'd turn it against me. But it's not the same. K2 is a story-driven game with a story which you may or may not like. HL2 is a story-driven game which lacks a story whatsoever.

AND OE never said anything about a "retail content patch" or any crap like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Half-Life ouvre has many and varied flourishes throughout its epic telling; I'm sure we will all find out the narrative in all its glorious detail in the fullness of time.

 

Why did they spend 6 years to produce an "incomplete" game? Even if we, for a moment, take your definition of incomplete (which I don't agree with, but -- hey!), it would probably be because Valve wrote a new engine and then found out how difficult it was to build the new game using it. Remember it was released over a year after it was announced, so they obviously hit some major hurdles. (There was no tentacular thingie in the game, for example, and it appears on the front of the game package!)

 

I am happy because:

- what they did release was sizeable and error free

- it was immersive and fun

- it was long and varied enough to not be dull

- it contained enough "in jokes" masquerading as story to keep the interest

- there is more to come, soon.

[213374U]

If Half-Life 2 doesn't have a story, then how can it possibly be a story driven game?

Bingo!

 

You tell me.

 

 

Why did they spend 6 years to produce an "incomplete" game? Even if we, for a moment, take your definition of incomplete (which I don't agree with, but -- hey!), it would probably be because Valve wrote a new engine and then found out how difficult it was to build the new game using it.

Read: poor management. And they are not the first to build a new engine for their game. Some have done that before and it did not prevent them from delivering well fleshed stories.

 

No, it was obviously a design decision.

 

 

I am happy because:

- what they did release was sizeable and error free

- it was immersive and fun

- it was long and varied enough to not be dull

- it contained enough "in jokes" masquerading as story to keep the interest

- there is more to come, soon.

Good for you. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone to my views, mind you. However, I wasn't interested in a game whose main only focus would be combat and physics. If that was what I wanted, I would have purchased BFV or UT2005. Those are combat-driven games. That is not what one would have expected from HL2, much less considering it was a sequel to HL.

[metadigital]

Good for you. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone to my views, mind you. However, I wasn't interested in a game whose main only focus would be combat and physics. If that was what I wanted, I would have purchased BFV or UT2005. Those are combat-driven games. That is not what one would have expected from HL2, much less considering it was a sequel to HL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for you, because you haven't so far.

I hated the UT games, they were just multiplayer frag fests and the singleplayer game was boring.

 

No, I think you're selling them short: the variety of interfaces the PC had with the environment was significant.

 

I take your point that you didn't appreciate the story, and that's too bad. I thought it was clever: a story without a story. And I do still expect more of the narrative to be revealed over time.

 

What is that old criticism? There are only about half-a-dozen plots? Well, basically the sequel is just re-using the main elements of the first game(s) and keeping the differences hidden -- for now. I think that's clever, if only -- as I said earlier -- because the anticipation of a pleasure is a greater pleasure than the pleasure itself.