High Res patch...

[ken007]

Actually I was referring to when you stated one did not have to be stupid to fail to understand PST's plot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Demigod didn't say that he didn't understood the plot, he thought it lead nowhere! Now does that mean that he didn't understand what was going on... not necessarily... maybe he just thought the ending wasn't that good, just like KotOR II... here's a quote:

 

That had a great plot that lead nowhere (thouhg it did have more than 1 ending) Whole plot points forgotton, stripped areas and lots of bugs and a patch that fixed little and broke more

 

He's comparing his experience with Torment to KotOR II.... why on earth is that stupid?!

 

Also, how can there be too much dialogue/interaction in an RPG?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just thought that there was too much dialog... loads and loads of lines to read.... not my cup of tea! I prefer that there are a few lines to pick from, not too long either, nice and simple... my eyes hurt if there's too much to read

[Archmonarch]

Demigod didn't say that he didn't understood the plot, he thought it lead nowhere! Now does that mean that he didn't understand what was going on... not necessary... maybe he just thought the ending wasn't that good, just like KotOR II

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, then I misunderstood. I hadnt read the whole thread at the time.

[Mark Havel]

I just thought that there was too much dialog... loads and loads of lines to read.... not my cup of tea! I prefer that there are a few lines to pick from, not too long either, nice and simple... my eyes hurt if there's too much to read 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, it's a desperate case if you're not able to read PS:T dialogs. Some people are thinking this is what makes this game close to pen and paper RPG. Personnally, I almost played the game as if it was an interactive novell.

[ken007]

Well, it's a desperate case if you're not able to read PS:T dialogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course I can read it... I just don't like my games to be too dialog heavy. I like the amounts of dialog that are in games like Gothic 1 and 2, KotOR and Baldur's Gate 1 and 2

 

You like Torment, but I don't like it so much.... it's all about preferences! I respect that you like the game... so couldn't you also respect that not everybody likes PS:T? And do it without insinuating that there just has to be something wrong with you if you don't like PS:T!

[Darth Credulous]

Big thing with PS:T - if you don't max (and I mean MAX) Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma you miss out on half the story. That's not immediately obvious. Like, playing to have at least 25 INT, WIS and CHA by the end is the aim. So, I'd guess that a lot of those who felt PS:T was incomplete had a fighter or a thief Nameless One, as opposed to a mage. It's not that the game's full of holes. It's just that it's not necessarily all there for you if you don't make that choice at the character generation stage. A design flaw? Maybe. But then it makes sense - if you're not that smart or wise, then you won't be able to figure it out.

 

As for PS:T being a poor game in terms of combat - I get the feeling that if Black Isle could have gotten rid of the combat entirely or replaced it with a different system, then they would have, but as things stood they were restricted by the engine of the time. It's not a game about combat - in fact, all except two combats in the entire game can simply be avoided, and in the cases where you talk your way out of them you generally get a higher XP reward than you would do for fighting and winning.

 

For the dialogue fans, there was PS:T. For the hack and slash fans, there was Icewind Dale. For those in the middle, there was Baldur's Gate.

[ken007]

Yep, I am in the middle

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"He's comparing his experience with Torment to KotOR II.... why on earth is that stupid?!"

 

I didn't say that comparing them was stupid. I said missing where PST's plot was going/went was stupid. Like, a big difference.

 

 

"He's not allowed to have his opinion without you calling him stupid?"

 

Hey, I got nothing against having opinions. Just don't say it out loud it if it's controversial enough to warrant further explanation and you're not going to bother to do so, or I'll call you stupid.

 

"And how is calling him stupid any argument for Torment's plot being good?"

 

It isn't. It's an observation about his mental abilities. Duh!

 

"It's friggen' immature to be name-calling... why don't you instead explain why you think the plot is good? How's that for an idea... an actual discussion!"

 

Since he didn't feel like explaining his point of view any further than he did, I don't feel obliged to.

 

Besides, I only said what everyone else thought.

[ken007]

I didn't say that comparing them was stupid. I said missing where PST's plot was going/went was stupid. Like, a big difference.

 

No, actually you didn't. You just said he was stupid. But I see your point and if I knew the story I would probably agree with you... but what if by saying 'Lead nowhere' just meant he thought the ending was disappointing(like KotOR II)? He did say it was a great plot... doesn't that imply that he knew what was going on?

 

 

Hey, I got nothing against having opinions. Just don't say it out loud it if it's controversial enough to warrant further explanation and you're not going to bother to do so, or I'll call you stupid.

 

Okay, so instead of asking him to further explain his views, you just go ahead and call him stupid... maybe if you'd asked him and engaged in a discussion with him, you might have convinced him that PS:T actually did lead somewhere!

 

 

It isn't. It's an observation about his mental abilities. Duh!

 

Erm, what I meant with that question was why didn't you put forth any real arguments, instead of just calling him stupid.

 

 

Since he didn't feel like explaining his point of view any further than he did, I don't feel obliged to.

 

Well, that probably has something to do with the fact that nobody asked him to specify his views! And I find it hard to believe that someone who's been called stupid wants to explain his point of view

 

 

Besides, I only said what everyone else thought.

 

Well you can't argue with that.....

[Nartwak]

He did say it was a great plot... doesn't that imply that he knew what was going on?

Not necessarily.

[Naso]

And this is one of the hotter topics on these boards? R.I.P. Kotor 2. Here's hoping you find closure in the hereafter. "

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"No, actually you didn't. You just said he was stupid."

 

Try again, Sherlock.

 

"Okay, so instead of asking him to further explain his views, you just go ahead and call him stupid..."

 

He was either stupid for being wrong, or stupid for not explaining himself immediately, I no longer care.

 

"maybe if you'd asked him and engaged in a discussion with him, you might have convinced him that PS:T actually did lead somewhere!"

 

Might have convinced him? Don't make me laugh, this is the internet!

 

"Erm, what I meant with that question was why didn't you put forth any real arguments, instead of just calling him stupid."

 

Because I believed him to be stupid, and wanted to spare myself the effort?

 

"Well you can't argue with that....."

 

Well then, make a poll about it! Quote the post and have the question be "stupid or not?" and the options be "yes" and "no". Let's see which one wins. Or, rather, don't. I hate the possibility of losing.

[Mark Havel]

I thought this thread was about to ask developpers what happened to the content patch, not to debate endlessly on how did two people argue on PS:T or K2...

[ken007]

I thought this thread was about to ask developpers what happened to the content patch, not to debate endlessly on how did two people argue on PS:T or K2...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, when the developers don't answer.... you have to do something

 

 

Try again, Sherlock.

 

You got me on that one

 

 

Well then, make a poll about it! Quote the post and have the question be "stupid or not?" and the options be "yes" and "no". Let's see which one wins. Or, rather, don't. I hate the possibility of losing.

 

Well it's not wether or not he really is stupid.... it's just that you never even asked him about what he meant with 'lead nowhere', before calling him stupid!

 

And you misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't mean that nobody but you thinks he's stupid, I just thought it wasn't a very valid point!

 

 

Might have convinced him? Don't make me laugh, this is the internet!

 

......? So because this is the internet, you can't convince anyone about anything... even if you have good arguments.... lol

 

Well I don't think we can agree, but at least I got you to discuss it with me.... so I'm considering it a small achievement from my part :D

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"......? So because this is the internet, you can't convince anyone about anything... even if you have good arguments.... lol"

 

Exactly!

 

"Well I don't think we can agree, but at least I got you to discuss it with me.... so I'm considering it a small achievement from my part"

 

If you were to take a look at my track record you'd notice that is not (or in fact, it didn't use to be, back when this forum was a more brutal, unfriendlier but perhaps a little more, hm, stimulating place) rare for me to engage in a discussion. It is just that I often don't find it entertaining enough to do so.

[ken007]

......? So because this is the internet, you can't convince anyone about anything... even if you have good arguments.... lol

Exactly!

 

I convinced this guy :D

Ah, then I misunderstood. I hadnt read the whole thread at the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If you were to take a look at my track record you'd notice that is not (or in fact, it didn't use to be, back when this forum was a more brutal, unfriendlier but perhaps a little more, hm, stimulating place) rare for me to engage in a discussion. It is just that I often don't find it entertaining enough to do so.

 

Well then it puzzles me even more that you didn't engaged in a discussion with him! But I guess you don't think it's entertaining to defend a game you like.

[Demigod]

I recommend we start bombarding Lucas Arts with civilized queries about the status of the content patch.

 

Also, Demigod is stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Every one can have their own opinion I suppose, though being insulting without backing your point up is, shall we say not the best way to make an impression. But then the internet is a great thing to hide behind.

 

My point was that although, as I said, it was a great game there was little if no resolution to the main character, and indeed some of the lesser characters. Going off the fight the endless war, very commendable to atone for his passed sins, but there is no closure to the character what so ever. I

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I convinced [Archmonarch]"

 

No, you only showed him you never actually disagreed.

 

"Well then it puzzles me even more that you didn't engaged in a discussion with him! But I guess you don't think it's entertaining to defend a game you like."

 

I like to have some material to work with, and I like it brought to me. Now, it has been.

 

"Every one can have their own opinion I suppose, though being insulting without backing your point up is, shall we say not the best way to make an impression. But then the internet is a great thing to hide behind."

 

Demigod, you're paying special attention to your language now that I've called you stupid? Also, I notice that you've provided me some entertainment, in the form of real arguments -- splendid!

 

"My point was that although, as I said, it was a great game there was little if no resolution to the main character, and indeed some of the lesser characters. Going off the fight the endless war, very commendable to atone for his passed sins, but there is no closure to the character what so ever."

 

He doesn't go only to atone for his sins, he goes also the end the torment that his life is. And what do you mean, no closure? TNO, at first, sought to escape the retribution for sins by becoming immortal and doing enough good deeds to make up for them. In the end, he realizes the only way to make up for his past evils is to stop running and face the consequences of those actions. That's really the story in a nut shell. And I see a closure in that, as well. You were expecting to hear to what happens after, to TNO (perhaps you hoped he'd escape his punishment somehow) and his friends? That would be irrelevant to the story PST was trying to relay, and could possibly even detract from it.

 

"I may have missed some of the plot, as someone pointed out you need high int and Wis to learn the entire plot, which as a fighter I wouldn

[ken007]

No, you only showed him you never actually disagreed.

 

I convinced him that Demigod didn't necessarily fail to understand the plot in PS:T, but that he just might have been disappointed over the ending! And I turned out to be right, cause as Demigod put it 'there was little if no resolution to the main character'... well now we know what he meant by 'lead nowhere', he didn't feel there was any closure!

 

 

I like to have some material to work with, and I like it brought to me.

 

Hehe, you're lazy then?

 

 

Demigod, you're paying special attention to your language now that I've called you stupid?

 

Arh, come on.... what was that for?

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Arh, come on.... what was that for?"

 

Take a look at his older posts. Take a look at the new one. There's clear improvement to be seen.

[ken007]

"Arh, come on.... what was that for?"

 

Take a look at his older posts. Take a look at the new one. There's clear improvement to be seen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's still low to say something like that! And no, I actually don't think there is a clear improvements from his 1st post in this thread to the 2nd post, so unless you have scanned through all his post to compare his use of the english language in his 2nd post in this thread with his general use of the english language, I can't see where you are coming from with that immature question!

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"It's still low to say something like that!"

 

Low? It's merely an honest observation!

 

"And no, I actually don't think there is a clear improvements from his 1st post in this thread to the 2nd post [...]"

 

Punctuation, capitalization and spelling are all better in the second post.

 

"[...] so unless you have scanned through all his post to compare his use of the english language in his 2nd post in this thread with his general use of the english language, I can't see where you are coming from with that immature question!"

 

Actually, I pretty much did just that.

[ken007]

Low? It's merely an honest observation!

 

But what did you achieve by saying it?

 

 

Punctuation, capitalization and spelling are all better in the second post.

 

There's not a clear improvement... subtle at best.

 

 

Actually, I pretty much did just that.

 

That's kinda.... weird! You looked through most of his post, just so you could see if his 2nd post was written in a higher level than what he's used to do?! That's a bit excessive, I would say!

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"But what did you achieve by saying it?"

 

Sexual gratification.

 

"There's not a clear improvement... subtle at best."

 

Subtle? Hardly so when you can see it immediately.

 

"That's kinda.... weird! You looked through most of his post, just so you could see if his 2nd post was written in a higher level than what he's used to do?! That's a bit excessive, I would say!"

 

Excessive? All I did was click on his user name and then clicked on "Find member's posts" and then skimmed through the first page I was given. Hardly bothersome at all.

[ken007]

Sexual gratification.

 

You perve

 

 

Subtle? Hardly so when you can see it immediately.

 

He upped his grammar a bit, not his usage of the english language. He wrote more in his 2nd post, but that doesn't have anything to do with his level of english.

 

 

Excessive? All I did was click on his user name and then clicked on "Find member's posts" and then skimmed through the first page I was given. Hardly bothersome at all.

 

It's the fact that you would do such a thing that's excessive! And I know you don't think so, that's why I wrote "I would say!"

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"He upped his grammar a bit, not his usage of the english language."

 

His second post is more in adherence to the grammatical structure of English language than his fist post. That is not improving his use of language?

 

"It's the fact that you would do such a thing that's excessive!"

 

Why shouldn't I? I see a post that doesn't seem to fit with the image I have of someone's posting style, and I know an easy way to check out if it actually is consistant with the said person's posting style. Hell, it probably took me longer to write this post than it took for me to check out his posts.