poltitical forum

[Kaftan Barlast]

Since when did the option of organising a religious powerstructure have anything to do with individual rights? You SHOULD have the right to belive in whatever higher power you wish but organising into groups shoudlnt, because of the potential harm that may cause in the long run.

 

 

Furthermore, as was said before, religious groups are not as other powerstructures because they are controlled by unquestionable dogma, and are as such, undemocratic.

[Reveilled]

Since when did the option of organising a religious powerstructure have anything to do with individual rights? You SHOULD have the right to belive in whatever higher power you wish but organising into groups shoudlnt, because of the potential harm that may cause in the long run.

 

 

Furthermore, as was said before, religious groups are not as other powerstructures because they are controlled by unquestionable dogma, and are as such, undemocratic.

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It has plenty to do with individual rights. You're denying individuals the right to form organisations of like-minded people. Everyone in these organisations ultimately has the choice as to whether or not to join or to remain in these groups; they are voluntary organisations. And advocating banning them on the basis that they could cause potential harm seems worse to me than any harm these organisations could ever do.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Since when did the option of organising a religious powerstructure have anything to do with individual rights? You SHOULD have the right to belive in whatever higher power you wish but organising into groups shoudlnt, because of the potential harm that may cause in the long run.

 

 

Furthermore, as was said before, religious groups are not as other powerstructures because they are controlled by unquestionable dogma, and are as such, undemocratic.

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I would say that banning organised religion is counter to the right to peaceful assembly and association set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

I do understand what you're saying, and I am far from happy that there are people who accept dogma in this way. However, it is ultimately their choice to accept dogma, and they are free to leave, at least if they live in a liberal democracy. It's not easy even there, and I know that people who have turned their backs on the faith they were born into can have very negative experiences, but it does happen. At least, provided there is a separation between Church law and state law. There are places in the world where leaving your church is not a viable option, but this is better solved through education and development rather than banning organised religion.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I agree, a ban on organised religion is an impossibility and any attempts would very likely just strengthen fundamentalist groups. My idea is just a philosofical stance, not a suggestion of action. Secularisation can only come by the slow process of intellectual enlightenment(education is not the proper term, imo) and social development. There is no doubt that the situation in the arab world would have been radicly different if the progress of democratisation had not been stopped by western economic interests.

[Rosbjerg]

without any people a religion would be perfect .. this of course applies to anything in this world ..

 

as Douglas Adams said:

To summerize the summary; People are a problem!

[SteveThaiBinh]

Secularisation can only come by the slow process of intellectual enlightenment(education is not the proper term, imo) and social development.

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Education in Freire's sense of conscientisation, perhaps. I certainly don't mean formal schooling.

 

as Douglas Adams said:

To summerize the summary; People are a problem!

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No, people are the solution.

[Revan_2005]

Its not wise to dismiss the place of religon in society. Enlightenment is subjective, religion is needed to provide a moral framework in society.

 

The problems in the middle east are political in nature, its a power grab and those who want power are misusuing religion to gain support.

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but why have religion when u can have christ?

[Revan_2005]

At the very least, I think we can all agree that organized religion does more harm than good.

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I totally agree and i dont mean to sound arrogant but IMO it requires a certain level of intelligence and education to arrive at that conclusion.

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how can yall say that? our very motto stands for our father in heaven.

[Revan_2005]

Its not wise to dismiss the place of religon in society. Enlightenment is subjective, religion is needed to provide a moral framework in society.

No, it isn't. Religion is something you choose, while morality is something that, in the unlikely case that you lack it, is imposed on you by law.

 

Perhaps in the past it was religion that inspired some philosophers and pointed them in the right direction regarding moral issues, but today, organized religion is nothing but a tool for control of the masses, and an obstacle in the way of social progress.

 

At the very least, I think we can all agree that organized religion does more harm than good.

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That's what I'm talking about!

 

Religion is perfectly OK if you use it as a personal moral and ethical compass, but as soon as people try to force their ways upon others something is very wrong!

"Enlightnment", as subjective as it may be, sort of gave us the freedom to make our own choices without being burned as a witch.

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funny.last time i checked my God gave us a choice.

[Revan_2005]

somwhere there is a God and he weeps for you! evolution has turned this world so bad!

[Baley]

Stop spaming...this was a serious thread <_<

 

Let the discusion continue...you also might want to merge those posts into 1

 

Oh and Christ was just a man (if he existed)

[Revan_2005]

Stop spaming...this was a serious thread <_<

 

Let the discusion continue...you also might want to merge those posts into 1

 

Oh and Christ was just a man (if he existed)

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are a non believing liberal?

[Baley]

I belive in the divine that's all

[Revan_2005]

what do u mean?

[Baley]

I belive in a creating power...and none of the creational myths of the World :D

[Revan_2005]

and which power do u believe in?

[Laozi]

Since when did the option of organising a religious powerstructure have anything to do with individual rights? You SHOULD have the right to belive in whatever higher power you wish but organising into groups shoudlnt, because of the potential harm that may cause in the long run.

 

 

Furthermore, as was said before, religious groups are not as other powerstructures because they are controlled by unquestionable dogma, and are as such, undemocratic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say that banning organised religion is counter to the right to peaceful assembly and association set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

I do understand what you're saying, and I am far from happy that there are people who accept dogma in this way. However, it is ultimately their choice to accept dogma, and they are free to leave, at least if they live in a liberal democracy. It's not easy even there, and I know that people who have turned their backs on the faith they were born into can have very negative experiences, but it does happen. At least, provided there is a separation between Church law and state law. There are places in the world where leaving your church is not a viable option, but this is better solved through education and development rather than banning organised religion.

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I think it could work actually. In a lot of European countries they have laws against hate groups organizing, and spreading hate literature. Surely the biblical stance on homosexual and their union can be interpreted as such.

In most western religious text you can find so sort of "hate" message.

 

I think actually we should just kill them all and let their Norse Gods sort them out

[Lucius]

At least Valhalla should be a place of eternal party and immortals fighting it out, sounds a hell of a lot more fun than heaven to me. :D

 

I don't support a ban either, but I would the very moment the Church (or Islam?) tries to forcefully make others believe, they can gather and pray all the want for all I care, they just freaking gotta make sure I or the rest of us nonbelievers don't get bothered because of it.

 

But as for me, I don't believe in any religion and I'm fortunate that the majority of my countrymen doesn't really either. I just read in the paper today that the total number of members of the Lutheran Church here has been decreasing around 1% each year since sometime in the 80'ies, which is progress imho.

 

I do believe in some sort of after life, though, a place where the soul travels upon death. I certainly don't believe in reincarnation, one life on this earth is enough for me.

[Reveilled]

At least Valhalla should be a place of eternal party and immortals fighting it out, sounds a hell of a lot more fun than heaven to me.  :D

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Nah, why have partying and fighting in Valhalla when you can have partying and partying in Elysium? Lots more fun, plus, when you invite all the scandanavians and anglo-saxons over for a party, you can make them bring the beer. :D

 

The way I see it, everything in this universe ultimately boils down to Chaos. Other religions might emphasis order and harmony, but stars aren't placed in lines, flowers don't grow natually in neat little rows, entropy is always increasing, and even the most highly ordered system we know of, humans, only serve to create more chaos, driving our progress and happiness through competition, freedom, nonconformism, innovation, and out-of-the box thinking. With all this Chaos in the universe making it such a wonderful and interesting place, how can you accept anything less than a Chaotic deity?

 

Hail Eris! All hail Discordianism! :D

[Darth Flatus]

You and your chaos and octopus gods and stuff. <_<

[Reveilled]

You and your chaos and octopus gods and stuff.  <_<

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Ah, you mock now, but you shall regret your ways, sinner, when the Great Old Ones arise to eat you in the final days. I'll be at the pre-Elysium party on Mount Olympus (to which the other Greek gods will most certainly not be invited), protected by my Goddess, while you, heathen, will have to face the three-fold dangers of Cthulhu, The Realm of Greyface (a.k.a. Hell, a.k.a. Heaven), and worst of all--shudder--THUD.

 

Repent, O sinner man! REEEEEEPEEEENT!!!! :ph34r:

[Baley]

Hah...what is your pitiful religeon compared to the glory of Hamala :D

 

Hamala is coming sinners...repent

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Fools. The only true power is that of a shrubbery.

[Reveilled]

Hah...what is your pitiful religeon compared to the glory of Hamala :D

 

Hamala is coming sinners...repent

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What's a hamala? Is it a new brand of cold meat?

Your evil attempts to lead me into the arms of Greyface shall fail, evil one! I shall never abandon my true faith! In fact, I declare a Discordian Fatwa on you and your ham sandwitch! Crusade! CRUSADE! :ph34r:

[Baley]

Hamala is the secret aliance between Space Hamsters and LLamas :D

 

And it is coming we will not be stoped