The Minimum XP challenge

[phiont]

This discussion got started over here, where it was straying from the Game Intros topic.

 

 

Crazy idea:  Has anyone tried to complete the game with the minimum amount of XP possible?

 

Come to think of it there a lots of ways to avoid XP.

- side-stepping a lot of hostiles in stealth,

- paying 2000 Credit for a bad reputation with the Exchange on NS,

- running past the Red Eclipse to their leader in the communications room,

- don't repair T3,

- no side quests,

- etc.

 

I have considered doing a min-XP run or a quick run, and I will try both at least with Peragus to see where it leads. Interestingly, there is actually some overlap with the tactics for a max-XP run.

 

Examples: In a min-XP or quick run you jog through the dormitories without bothering the droids. In a max-XP run you jog through the dormitories without bothering the droids, but you come back later with Kreia in tow to have her watch you bothering each droid individually and personally.

 

Quick runs and min-XP runs are fun because the different 'objective' function requires approaches that are different from normal and munchkin playthroughs. Also, there tend to be more difficult situations because your character has fewer abilities and less equipment; in some cases you may have to balance the time/XP penalty for obtaining a certain item/power/ability vs. the difficulty of progressing the main quest without said item/power/ability.

 

P.S.: there is enough difference between quick runs (a la QdQ - Quake done quick) and min-XP runs to make them interesting in their own right. For example, in a min-XP run you would have T3 clear away the droids in the fuel depot, because any XP he gets at that point is 'free' and does not transfer to the main character, but if you don't do this then Atton and T3 will likely drop some of the droids when you pass the area coming from the Harbinger later. In a quick run you would have T3 roll straight to the console, open the fuel depot door and race him past the droids, because it does not matter if Atton and T3 have their fun with some of the droids when you come from the Harbinger later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn. I didn't realise that about T3 not gaining player XP.

Ok... Back to square one.

 

Where else in the game do party members not accumulate XP for the main PC?

I'm quite sure Mira's escape from the Yuck Yuck Tar is one of those, no?

 

By the way, so far it's damned challenging.

I've chosen a female sentinel for the useful skills/feats. Besides, having Disciple instead of Handmaiden should cut at least one confrontation out of my future.

 

So far, I'd managed to reach the airlock with just around 2000 XP. :ph34r:

 

 

[Edit: post 100 (w00t) ]

[Darth Frog]

Where else in the game do party members not accumulate XP for the main PC?

I'm quite sure Mira's escape from the Yuck Yuck Tar is one of those, no?

 

Right. As far as I can see:

- T3 on Peragus

- Atton in the bar

- Mira in the Jekk'Jekk Tarr and later in the pit

- T3 in the warehouse

- start of Goto's Yacht, until Exile is freed

- Dxun outing (tomb)

 

By the way, so far it's damned challenging.

 

Hehe, the most challenging part so far was getting the loot, like bashing locks while ten droids are gunning for your hide.

 

Later the challenge is to keep your team members from killing assassins/droids, because it is not always possible to park them out of harm's way. For example, if you do the Harbinger at level 2 then Kreia/Atton (who are level 3) will slaughter the poor assassins in a hurry even if they don't have any weapons. So you have to be careful to herd the assassins away from your bloodthirsty companions if you want to loot the joint (stealth is not very effective at this point).

 

I've chosen a female sentinel for the useful skills/feats.

 

Dito here. Made a female Sentinel with STR 8 and the rest 14, because skills, defense, stamina and Force powers will be important. Since this is a min-XP run I called her 'Mynx'. :D

 

I had overestimated the amount of mandatory XP and thought that Mynx would reach level 3 before things got really interesting. She didn't, and in hindsight I should have given her the Repair cross-feat at creation which would have allowed to boost the skill at level 2 (for increased yield when scavenging components).

 

As regards powers: only one power is available (level 2) and there are three nice candidates for the job. Speed increases defense and lets you lose enemies by outrunning them and it is also very useful for shepherding enemies to locations where they are out of harm's (i.e. Atton's/Kreia's) way. Energy Resistance is useful because many enemies use blasters, but Energy Shields are a good substitute. Stun Droids lets you disarm mines easily without incurring XP and without losing health. In hindsight I would prefer Stun Droid over Speed, but it is a close call.

 

BTW, your defense increases if you don't have any weapon equipped which is probably due to unarmed combat feats. So it is easier to run gauntlets if you switch away that trusty plasma torch until there is something to bash.

 

So far, I'd managed to reach the airlock with just around 2000 XP.  :ph34r:

 

Harbinger Crew Quarters, 2146. :ph34r:

[Darth Frog]

En route to Citadel Station, 6466 :ph34r:

 

Boarded the Ebon Hawk with 2966 on the XP-o-meter and proceeded to shred Sith with the laser turret, which was a lot of fun and well aided by all the explosive cylinders that somebody had thoughtfully placed all over the hangar in the 10 seconds it took to enter the Ebon Hawk and man the turret. :D

 

After the usual chat with the usual 1000 XP I checked the XP-o-meter and was completely aghast to find it at 6866 (expected 2966 + 1000 = 3966); which means there must have been a quiet XP penalty of 2900 somewhere. The logs did not show anything, but most likely it was the 'turretting' of the Sith.

 

So I replayed from the hangar, but let the Sith board this time. Result: 25 Sith @ 100 XP apiece -> 2500 XP, for a total of 6466 which is actually 400 less than the turret result.

 

So it seems the theory that you don't get XP for de-Sithifying the hangar with the laser turret is wrong; not only do you get XP, you actually get more XP. My guess is that you get the same XP for each kill and an extra 400 XP if the Ebon Hawk is not boarded, rather than 16% more for turret kills compared to 'boarder' kills which would be rather odd.

[phiont]

I must be doing something wrong (or right).

 

I already had around 2950 XP on entering the Harbinger. By the time I boarded the EH it was up to ~4300. I had the incredible luck to find the Stealth Field Enhancer visor so I didn't have to slay anything. Even my colleagues were kind enough to stay put until I'd could reach the other end of each level, whereupon they thoughtfully materialised at my side on entering the next section.

 

At first I thought my surplus XP may have to do with the difficulty being set at normal. You see, I was scoring 125 XP for each trooper slain on the Hawk and you've reported only 100. However, raising the difficulty didn't lower it. So maybe the game slipped me a big XP bonus when I raised the air temp in the mines, although there was no on-screen XP award that I recall.

 

By the way, I've also gone with the same Attribute spread you've chosen above and for the same reasons.

Oh, and my character's name is Ghetmi Attahir. :D

[Darth Frog]

I had the incredible luck to find the Stealth Field Enhancer visor so I didn't have to slay anything.

 

LOL. During earlier games I always found those things somewhere on Peragus but never had any use for them. This time they would have been useful but didn't find any. Don't you just love the random loot gennies ... :D

 

Starting with the dormitories Mynx could not remain undetected for longer stretches of time, especially when getting close to the enemy (because of the distance modifier). The SFE would have been welcome, but things were manageable with a slight change of tactics.

 

At first I thought my surplus XP may have to do with the difficulty being set at normal.  You see, I was scoring 125 XP for each trooper slain on the Hawk and you've reported only 100.  However, raising the difficulty didn't lower it.  So maybe the game slipped me a big XP bonus when I raised the air temp in the mines, although there was no on-screen XP award that I recall.

 

Mynx entered the Ebon Hawk with 2966 on the XP-o-meter, which means that in her case the mobs were spawned for a level-2 character. Similar things happen elsewhere, and this can easily be seen with the assassins on the Harbinger or the 'corpse' Hssiss on Korriban. For example, if you are level 5 or 6 when you spawn a pack of assassins in the Harbinger crew quarters then they will yield 200 XP apiece; at level 7 it is 225. The Hssiss normally yield 400 XP but if you go to Korriban early then it is only 375 (or less).

 

This is quite different from the way XP behaves once the critters have been spawned; if you gain levels when a mob already exists then its XP value (usually) decreases. This can often be seen if you cross a level-up threshold during combat.

 

So the reason why Ghetmi's Sith were fatter than Mynx's is that Ghetmi was higher level when she entered the Ebon Hawk. IIRC at normal or munchkin levels those troopers are even fatter, 175 XP.

[Darth Frog]

Unnecessary Addendum: the only mandatory kills on Peragus are the HK and the 25 Sith. The HK comes with 4 floating mines and their destruction cannot be avoided, but I accidentally found out that you don't get any XP for them if they are triggered instead of forcefully destroyed.

 

The mines are fairly close together (two pairs) and they will float towards your party. If one mine of a pair blows - for whatever reason - the other will be destroyed by the blast and yield XP (125+4 @ level 2). It may be possible to trigger both mines of a pair simultaneously by approaching them from the right direction, but things happen pretty fast in that fight and so even if it is possible it is probably extremely difficult. It is comparatively easy to trigger one mine in each pair, so that out of the four mines total you get two 'free' and XP only for the other two. I loaded a save and tried this, it works. The HK weighed in at 175 XP.

 

Here is a breakdown of the 'mandatory' non-kill XP for Peragus:

* before T3 *

110 console: morgue door

100 bash door to get out of med

110 receive 'you might want to save your game now' precognition ability

750 disable 15 admin droids by flipping switch

* after T3 *

250 destroy console in Hangar Bay to access airlock

* Harbinger *

250+8 download drift charts

250 console: open door to engine area

250 console: enable maintenance access

* Fuel Depot *

100 find T3

110 turn off force field

* Hangar Bay *

110 console: open door to Hangar 25

 

Mynx got 550+18 XP for the HK fight (HK + 3 mines); Kreia's mentor ability seems to add about 3% at this point.

[Judge Hades]

Why don't you simply open up the Experience table 2da and change all the combat experience to 1.

[Darth Frog]

Why don't you simply open up the Experience table 2da and change all the combat experience to 1.

 

Same reason as why I played the game for several days from Peragus to Malachor in order to have Munchkin finish with level 32 (517771 XP), instead of loading an old Malachor save and typing addexp 123456789 in the console.

 

[phiont]

Thanks for the tips, Darth Frog. It worked.

 

I managed to eliminate the HK without disturbing any of his mines. Actually it's not that difficult just to shepherd each party member away from them. Of course, they have to be in solo and stationary mode. Then it's just a matter of having Atton sneak up on the droid with an ion grenade. Not surprisingly, the entrance to the Harbinger remains shut until the HK has been dealt with.

 

Bottom line: 2579 XP on entering the EH and 6079 after departing the system

 

I tried playing through at character level 1, but the de-Sithification XP remains 100 each. I'm also convinced that the type of inventory available to a level 2 is significantly better than what a level 1 will find.

 

On to Telos, and I'm now trying to determine which of the Czerka or Ithorian path will get me to the planet's surface with less XP.

[Darth Frog]

Bottom line:  2579 XP on entering the EH and 6079 after departing the system

 

Congrats, this is amazing. I think you turned in a perfect score - and laid the bar pretty high for other contenders.

 

How did you deal with the sonic mines en route to the decontamination console? Two times 3 mines in a row on narrow ramps. Originally I had planned to 'punch through' the area unstealthed, blowing up the mines with Force powers. But I had to improvise because Mynx did not level up to 3 and so she could not acquire the Stun Droid spell. It turned out that 'disarming' mines Guardian fashion by stomping on them does not cancel Stealth ... Between good Reflex saves and Sonic Nullifiers the mines did only 5 damage per 'step'. :D

 

I tried playing through at character level 1, but the de-Sithification XP remains 100 each.  I'm also convinced that the type of inventory available to a level 2 is significantly better than what a level 1 will find.

 

100 XP is probably the bottom value for this scene. Also, sometimes the game uses taken level and sometimes it uses XP-equivalent level for determining things, and your XP-equivalent level is at least 2 by the time you reach the Ebon Hawk. Hard to tell what goes on.

 

Your findings seem to indicate that loot is tailored to taken level. On the other hand, the result of the random loot generation can vary wildly between playthroughs with otherwise equivalent conditions and so this is hard to judge.

[phiont]

How did you deal with the sonic mines en route to the decontamination console?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same as you did with Sonic Nullifier. I also had the Hyper-Adrenaline belt adding +3 to reflex saves and Force Speed raised defence by 1.

 

On the other hand, the result of the random loot generation can vary wildly between playthroughs with otherwise equivalent conditions and so this is hard to judge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a small survey by reloading and entering the Dorm airlock round 3 or 4 times at each character level. At level 1 the nearby lockers had the requisite thermal gloves, components and credits. At level 2 there were also belts, and underlays. It may still have been luck, though.

 

 

Given all the sub tasks Luxa has a DS player do before granting access to Slusk for Lorso, it appears that the LS path to the RZ earns less XP - especially if the player can get away from the station without having to fight the mercs in the Ithorian compound. I'm not sure if that's an option, but it definitely isn't optional when they attack Czerka.

 

My toughest question at this moment is whether to avoid all XP that can be avoided. If I faithfully continue down that path then I'm forced to leave my inventory in the TSF armory, where retrieval grants 50 XP. So far, I've been able to get by without it, but I just don't know how I'm going to break the news to Atton about his Ribbed Jacket. "

 

By the way, just before the fake Batu Rem attacks, you can actually pause and remove Kreia using the party selection screen saving a massive 6 XP.

 

In addition to Valor, I've chosen Mind Trick for it's useful stun which lasts a full 30 sec. If Ghetmi Attahir ever reaches level 15 then Force Confusion will actually save much XP. I once used it on Azkul in the battle of Khoonda. With the final hostile pacified, the game determined that the conflict was over and took me to the cut scene with Adare and Vrook. The scuffle that broke out in the background a few seconds into my Vrook chat resulted in Azkul's death, but no XP. :D

[Darth Frog]

My toughest question at this moment is whether to avoid all XP that can be avoided.  If I faithfully continue down that path then I'm forced to leave my inventory in the TSF armory, where retrieval grants 50 XP.  So far, I've been able to get by without it, but I just don't know how I'm going to break the news to Atton about his Ribbed Jacket.  "

 

Well, Ghetmi is at least 400 XP ahead of Mynx (who took three mines in the HK scene), so you have a bit of leeway for small luxuries. :D

 

Corollary: if you plan on not retrieving your items from the locker then you might as well break the stuff down before landing on Citadel. It isn't like anyone would want to rebuild HK-47 in a min-XP run, no? So there is no real loss there except perhaps for the breath mask which can be useful in the early portions of the military base on Telos.

 

By the way, just before the fake Batu Rem attacks, you can actually pause and remove Kreia using the party selection screen saving a massive 6 XP. 

 

You are devious and clever. [influence gained: Darth Frog]

 

In addition to Valor, I've chosen Mind Trick for it's useful stun which lasts a full 30 sec.  If Ghetmi Attahir ever reaches level 15 then Force Confusion will actually save much XP.  I once used it on Azkul in the battle of Khoonda.  With the final hostile pacified, the game determined that the conflict was over and took me to the cut scene with Adare and Vrook.  The scuffle that broke out in the background a few seconds into my Vrook chat resulted in Azkul's death, but no XP.  :D

 

LOL, this is funny. And a very powerful technique for min-XP runs ...

[Darth Frog]

Mynx finished her work on Citadel @ 13727 (she did pick up her old things, as there were no stealth gennies to be gotten on Citadel). Tomorrow she'll go shopping and then proceed to Telos ... The military base should be interesting.

[phiont]

Here are the most recent XP totals for some of Ghetmi Attahir's milestones on Telos:

 

6079 - Ebon Hawk just before Telos

12159 - Entering restoration zone

12559 - Entering the military base

13059 - Entering polar academy

 

(However, to be fair I really should add around 1833 XP to those totals to account for all the XP I saved because of your tips on Peragus. :"> )

 

Samhan sold me an Exchange ShadowCaster (+4 ST) so I opted to leave my goods in the armory, at least for a while longer.

 

I only had to kill Slusk's 2 bodyguard droids to get into his office. Only 1 of Benok's blokes chased me and I was able to lead him safely to the room with the force cages.

 

I was able to ignore Moza's rescue plee and continue straight down to the RZ.

 

Getting into the military base without killing or being killed was tricky.

 

I was surprised that Ghetmi could lead the lost Czerka scavenger out of the base while stealthed. The hostile droids just ignore him. That was good for some LS points and no XP.

 

Bashing the storage door to where the ignition codes are hidden was probably the tensest moment with at least 6 MilBots hacking away at my Mandalorian Melee Shield. The Tank Droid was the only obligatory XP incurred in that level.

 

Entering the polar mesa was possible without killing the HK units and running away from them was not too tough.

 

A critical moment approaches. Which world to deal with next?