Should Revan Have An "Offical" Gender?

[Atomic Space Vixen]

41.9 % of computer gamers are women.

 

There's that pesky 40-odd percentage again!

 

Not all games are purchased in specialty stores, 57% of computer games are purchased by women. This one has the number of players at 39%, but it's still in the same area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Talk about misleading numbers. It's nice that you highlighted the percentages, but didn't bother to disclose the "fine print".

 

For instance, link one and their 41% number. You touched on it, but didn't bother to actually give a number for console percentage. That drops to 28% of consoles are bought by women. Not quite as big a percentage eh? But yeah, despite the fact that CONSOLE games are bigger selling, lets focus on the one that helps our argument and post the 41% computer game statistic.

 

Then link two, here's an excerpt that kind of disproves that the 40% actually represents those who would play RPGs or FPS.

 

"This includes everyone from little girls enjoying Barbie games and grandmothers playing online bridge to the growing number of female gamers who go head-to-head with their male counterparts in the current best sellers."

 

Basically, your precious 40% number, which is supposed to prove some kind of point, includes GRANDMOTHERS and LITTLE GIRLS who only have interest in specific types of games. Somehow, I can't see my grandma tossing in PS:T and having a go at it. But again, you post the numbers without actually posting the "fine print" that shows those numbers are grossly misleading.

 

And finally, article 3 proves that you once again didn't bother to either read the entire article, or just posted the part that helps your argument. But I'll do you a favor and quote yet another interesting piece of information written in the article.

 

"One does a double take when one sees that more women buy computer games that men, but note that these figures are related to purchase

[Lord Tarondor]

No, he's not. He's interpreted the statistics quite fairly; its once again like saying 40% of the people who watch sports are women and since thats so, they should advertise NCAA Women's Basketball more, when in reality its Tennis, Golf, and Soccer that's more popular amongst women.

 

Its stupid, its a waste of money for gaming developers, and it won't happen for a long time.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

I'm glad you skipped over the tidbits of fact that show how pointless your statistics are.

 

I hardly care if I'm insulting -- I'm being real, and sports 'are growing' as much as any population, but I still don't see anyone caring about NCAA Women's Basketball, and men certainly don't care about Tennis less its to watch Maria Sharapova or Anna Kournakova. Its the same as games -- there's people there, but not enough for what type of games you want made. There just aren't. As for forum-goers, ya, well, thats too bad they don't show themselves amongst the living cause then I might change my mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I quoted statistics from three different sources and I've argued over why they aren't pointless. Besides which, I've yet to see you provide anything other than useless comparisons and "because I know so."

I don't get how NCAA Women's Basketball and it's popularity or lack of has anything to do with RPG's that can appeal equally to both sexes. I'd say a better comparison would be movies, but then your "men prefer a compelling story" arguement would go out the window (my apologies to men who prefer a compelling story in their movies). There are movies that appeal more to men that make a lot of money, there are movies that appeal more to women that make a lot of money, and there are movies that appeal to both sexes that make huge friggin' fortunes.

Once more, my arguement is that game developers would be stupid to ignore a growing female market. I don't know why this bothers some of you guys so much (or how you figure that numbers that show a growing female market somehow don't show a growing female market and how you know better than people who have actually looked into this stuff). You seem almost panicky over the whole thing. I don't want the gaming industry to appeal solely to women now. Why is this getting to you?

[Atomic Space Vixen]

No, he's not. He's interpreted the statistics quite fairly; its once again like saying 40% of the people who watch sports are women and since thats so, they should advertise NCAA Women's Basketball more, when in reality its Tennis, Golf, and Soccer that's more popular amongst women.

 

Its stupid, its a waste of money for gaming developers, and it won't happen for a long time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<sigh> I really should give up, I need to get up for work in the morning, but there is still so much to address...

 

You are REALLY hung up on this sports crap, so let's try to put it in those terms for you... No, it's like saying that 40% of the people who watch sports are women, so they should advertise tennis, golf, and soccer more (to use your example). It's like five years ago, only 20% of sports fans were women, now it's about 40%. But some are little girls who like figure skating, and some are grandmothers who like watching the luge competitions, so it doesn't really count! And none of the males are little boys who enjoy watching polo or grandfathers who enjoy watching whack-a-mole! So the number of female fans aren't really growing so the networks would be stupid to waste their money airing tennis, golf, and soccer! And even though the number of female fans aren't really growing, the numbers that are growing are all little girls and grandmothers who hate football because girls don't like to watch football!

Jenna Chalmers, a video game designer at software company Electronic Arts, says the video-game industry was not marketing its products to women based on stereotypes.

You can think it's stupid and a waste of money for developers, but Electronic Freakin' Arts disagrees with you.

[Lord Tarondor]

I said I could hardly care and hope it would happen, but the facts are: Star Wars was made for little boys and teenage boys -- Lord of the Rings was made for little boys and teenage boys and adult men; why because it has thick plots that focus on male characters that are extremely heroic and ridiculously overpowered. Stephen King, 'The Dark Tower' series isn't for women. Most Anti-Hero stories aren't for women since half the female population, and while its certainly a stereo-type of sorts, find it 'stupid.' I know, I'm not some closet-monkey who's never interacted with women.

 

I doubt many women play Half-Life 2. I know some who play WoW but they're few and far between. SWG -- no. Barbie Fun House? Probably.

 

RPGs tend to be like that -- story-driven, and frankly, no male wants to play a female if its anything less than cheesy, cliche, and so forth; hell most, don't want to play female. In the end, you then have to take into consideration the time it takes to make a game, and to make a good game in which both males and females can be pleased, there runs the risk of wasting too much money. LucasArts, for instance, will not want to waste that much time, and while other companies may want to, they probably won't.

 

I'm not threatened with it -- I just know, that yes, there are women who play, but not enough to warrant what you want at this moment. Companies would be shooting themselves in the foot because, as of now, most companies don't want to spend too much money desinging a game nor do they want to spend a lot of time making it -- they want things that will sell, and if its an RPG and its like FFX or KotOR, they're going to want to appeal to boys. KotOR I and II have the male touch because I've read from pretty much every girl here that the female side generally sucks in comparison to male.

[Lord Tarondor]

Madden sells, NBA Live sells -- I want lists of women shooters/sports games that compete.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

KotOR I and II have the male touch because I've read from pretty much every girl here that the female side generally sucks in comparison to male.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's like talking to a wall, so I'm going to leave tonight addressing this last sentence... Duh. Except for one thing. Judging from the missing content from KOTOR II, the female PC would have had the far more satisfying storyline. But I refer you back to the above quote from Jenna Chalmers who works in the industry, what she had to say about stereotypes. LucasArts would do well to listen to her.

[Lord Tarondor]

If they want to do worse than they already are.

 

 

P.S. Kind of like judging from the cut stuff from the first story where Revan is redeemed on the Star Forge by interacting Carth that KotOR'1's female side would have had the better storyline.

 

As Carth would say when people can't realise history: Its over. You. Lost.

 

Heck, both games couldn't even keep Revan in character when referring to 'her' if you played or selected either; I'm afraid both companies just don't have enough vested interest to even do dialogues correctly but believe what you will.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

Madden sells, NBA Live sells -- I want lists of women shooters/sports games that compete.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<looks around and up and down to see where the hell we were only talking about shooters/sports games and not RPG's and where the hell I asked for a WNBA game>

Strawman argument. Look it up.

[Lord Tarondor]

I suppose you'll say Final Fantasy is defintetly loved by both genders, when in reality FF's typical female character is a short-skirt/short wearing ass-kicker with big boobs. Cliche and sterotype to sell to the teenagers/little boys.

 

Name some RPGs that sell that give women an equal plate, both KoTORs are out because the development team couldn't do their sides 100% in either, and obviously don't care.

[Lord Tarondor]

Diablo II and Star Wars Galaxies are of course loved by both women -- the typical Diablo character in tight-fitting armor and SWG being Star Wars in the first place and a male-oriented game.

[Aurora]

Hmm, gee golly, all this talk about how games won't market towards women and thus women don't buy games and thus games can't ever be marketed towards women has sure persuaded me.

 

Since our TSL Restoration Project is *not* going to be sold on the market, and since half of the group working on the project is female, I've decided that we're not going to add in any extra or missing ending options for male characters. It's our time, it's our effort, and why on earth would we want to put forth either into something that half of us won't even probably play?

 

On the plus side, you have sports games. Here's a ball... perhaps you'd like to bounce it.

[tmp]

Hell, a lot of women still have disdain for gamers or people who 'game' (mostly 15-17 yr olds) and find them to be 'loserish.'

(..)

BTW, are those the same 41% of women who generally lie about it just so they can be popular within gaming cliques?

So, a lot of women think gamers are losers, and yet at the same time they think gamers are cool and lie about playing games themselves, to too appear cool..?

Something tells me you didn't really give your own arguments a second thought as you were inventing them on the fly "

[tmp]

For instance, link one and their 41% number.  You touched on it, but didn't bother to actually give a number for console percentage.  That drops to 28% of consoles are bought by women.  Not quite as big a percentage eh?  But yeah, despite the fact that CONSOLE games are bigger selling, lets focus on the one that helps our argument and post the 41% computer game statistic. 

So, that makes the women ~35% of market share on average. While if i remember right, the arguments earlier in this thread went along lines the 'female' game market doesn't exist and as such isn't catered for. Remember, we are talking games here which currently bring bigger revenue than movie industry does.

 

Anyone who thinks they can afford ignoring 35% of market of this size is an idiot.

 

Basically, your precious 40% number, which is supposed to prove some kind of point, includes GRANDMOTHERS and LITTLE GIRLS who only have interest in specific types of games.

As opposed to GRANDFATHERS and LITTLE BOYS included on the other side of the fence? You are making it sound like a 'little boy' is somehow a different, better kind of customer, where he too has interest in specific game types after all...

 

"One does a double take when one sees that more women buy computer games that men, but note that these figures are related to purchase

[metadigital]

... I doubt many women play Half-Life 2. I know some who play WoW but they're few and far between. SWG -- no. Barbie Fun House? Probably.

 

RPGs tend to be like that -- story-driven, and frankly, no male wants to play a female if its anything less than cheesy, cliche, and so forth; hell most, don't want to play female. ...

... KotOR I and II have the male touch because I've read from pretty much every girl here that the female side generally sucks in comparison to male. ...

I must say your comments are offensive in the extreme. Are you trying to be this obtuse, or is it a gift? Who made you the oracle of the male gender? Travelled a lot, have you? Spoken personally to the millions of gamers around the world, in countries from Korea to Kazakhstan? Or just pontificated about it over a beer with the usual dozen female-phobic mysoginists you call friends?

 

Here's a shock for you: I'm male and I actually prefer to play female characters. My partner is a strong character: intelligent, talented and beautiful. I like being in the company of characters like hers, so I find it natural that my alter ego in a game is like her. (You must be something else around women: so much empathy!)

 

... The facts are: Star Wars was made for little boys and teenage boys -- Lord of the Rings was made for little boys and teenage boys and adult men; why because it has thick plots that focus on male characters that are extremely heroic and ridiculously overpowered. Stephen King, 'The Dark Tower' series isn't for women. Most Anti-Hero stories aren't for women since half the female population, and while its certainly a stereo-type of sorts, find it 'stupid.' I know, I'm not some closet-monkey who's never interacted with women.

All the more reason to broaden the audience appeal for these films/games. You should be careful, because your argument, in extremis, is a dangerous proposition. You are creating boundaries that don't need to be there. The world has too many boundaries as it is ... you keep putting them up and someone else has to take them down later. (I assume you actually defend your " hope it would happen" statement.)

I said I could hardly care and hope it would happen, ...

... I'm not threatened with it --

The tone of your responses does indeed indicate you are threatened by women gamers. If I were to indulge in amateur psychoanalysis (okay, since you asked so nicely); I would suggest you have some issues with abandonment, loss and power in relationships with women. (Had a divorce recently, or a significant other run off with your best friend?) (I would also suggest that if you are so insecure in your gender that playing a female character is so vexatious to you that you also may have some other issues, except that will be the only comment that you seize upon in this entire discourse and will lead to peurile name-calling to mask your hurt pride over realising you're a sexist.)

 

...

Yes, there are women who play, but not enough to warrant what you want at this moment. Companies would be shooting themselves in the foot because, as of now, most companies don't want to spend too much money desinging a game nor do they want to spend a lot of time making it -- they want things that will sell, and if its an RPG and its like FFX or KotOR, they're going to want to appeal to boys.

Nice use of statistics to back up your argument. Using the tried-and-true "my mates down the pub" wet-finger-in-the-air anecdotal certainty, again.

 

No business wants to spend unnecessary money. But businesses take risks and invest in new markets, too. The corollory to this is that the higher the risk the higher the return.

 

Your argument would be equivalent to saying "There's no market for Wi-Fi, so companies shouldn't build any Wi-Fi compatible components -- there's just no profit in it." The only statistics that have been quoted in this thread say categorically that the female share of the PC game market has doubled over the last 5 years. Still recording Sesame Street with a VHS, eh?

 

The way I would expect a rational, reasonable male to react is:

"Great news! I salute the diversity that follows on from adding more characters and richer story lines!",

"Viva la difference!", and

"I can't wait to meet new and interesting people" -- rather than

"Girls don't play games. Go away and leave us boys alone. Girls' germs! Girls' germs!"

 

What, exactly, are you afraid of? That you will have an extra option or two when creating your usual "male-LS-Guardian" character? That there will be additional plot lines for *gasp* female PCs, and you don't play icky-girlie-characters so you are subsidising this mis-guided "affirmative action" programme for someone else's benefit? Are you selfish, sexist or both?

 

-----------------------------

 

To be clear, I am flaming you because your attitude is completely wrong: it illustrates precisely the insidious nature of sexist and subconscious bigotry -- you're effectively saying "Women don't want to play games so publishers and developers shouldn't write for their participation because it just puts us real gamers (men) off." Like this is some sort of turf war, or a pre-teen boys' club with a sign over the shed saying "No Girls Allowed".

 

Welcome 'em in, I say, -- certainly the result couldn't be any worse than KotOR2: Revenge of the Accountants.

[WITHTEETH]

I might be late but...

Most people relate to themselves more then anybody. therefore if people pick a character that resembles themself or someone they admire, then the game is more to them. I feel it when i watch a movie or listen to music or even read a book. if you can see yourself in that person easier then its easier to relate.

For instance, my girlfriend hates blondes, she can't relate to them. and my sister is blonde and she doesn't care about brunnettes so neither of them are going to be willing to play eachother and enjoy it more. thats my hypothesis. any comments?

[GhostofAnakin]

So, that makes the women ~35% of market share on average. While if i remember right, the arguments earlier in this thread went along lines the 'female' game market doesn't exist and as such isn't catered for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That may have been argued in this thread, but not by me. So please don't quote one of my posts and associate some theory of someone else's with it. I'd never stated that a female gaming market doesn't exist. I've simply stated that it's arguable how big it actually is, and that at present I don't believe it's big enough to warrant companies shifting focus from the majority (male market) to the minority (female market). I'm merely pointing out that at present, the majority of gamers are still male, and thus it makes very little sense to cater to a minority rather than a majority. Plain and simple, nothing more.

 

I don't care if the percentage of women is 5%, 15%, 25% or even 40%. It's been a while since I was in math class, but that still makes the MAJORITY of the market male, and thus it's still better business to cater to the 60% market rather than the 40% market.

 

Hmm, gee golly, all this talk about how games won't market towards women and thus women don't buy games and thus games can't ever be marketed towards women has sure persuaded me.

 

Since our TSL Restoration Project is *not* going to be sold on the market, and since half of the group working on the project is female, I've decided that we're not going to add in any extra or missing ending options for male characters. It's our time, it's our effort, and why on earth would we want to put forth either into something that half of us won't even probably play?

 

On the plus side, you have sports games. Here's a ball... perhaps you'd like to bounce it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which is your prerogative. And while I believe you're just saying this to make some kind of point, I'd say that's a bit childish if you guys actually did do that since you'd be doing it out of spite because some people, heaven forbid, actually had the audacity to make comments that go against what you believe. But hey, much like the gaming industry can make games that suit them, so can you. But then again you'd be doing exactly what you and a bunch of other people are accusing the gaming industry of. But why stop the hypocracy now, though.

[Ohma]

I suppose you'll say Final Fantasy is defintetly loved by both genders, when in reality FF's typical female character is a short-skirt/short wearing ass-kicker with big boobs. Cliche and sterotype to sell to the teenagers/little boys.

 

Name some RPGs that sell that give women an equal plate, both KoTORs are out because the development team couldn't do their sides 100% in either, and obviously don't care.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Allow me to paraphrase you for a moment:

"SO WIMIEN SUCK KUZ THEI R STYUPID AND 73H DEVELOPPRZ H8 'EM!!!11ONEBUT NOT IF TEHY HV BOOBIES AND ***S KUZ LITTL BOYZ LOVE EM KUZ I LUV THEM!!I MEEN WOH WOOD WONT STYPIID GRLZ PLAYING MY GA3MZ ANWAY?!!THEHY HAV KOOTIEZZZ!!"

 

. . .

I don't care if the percentage of women is 5%, 15%, 25% or even 40%.  It's been a while since I was in math class, but that still makes the MAJORITY of the market male, and thus it's still better business to cater to the 60% market rather than the 40% market.

. . .

Which is your prerogative.  And while I believe you're just saying this to make some kind of point, I'd say that's a bit childish if you guys actually did do that since you'd be doing it out of spite because some people, heaven forbid, actually had the audacity to make comments that go against what you believe.  But hey, much like the gaming industry can make games that suit them, so can you.  But then again you'd be doing exactly what you and a bunch of other people are accusing the gaming industry of.  But why stop the hypocracy now, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No but that would be a fairly LARGE minority, that, were developers and publishers to continue to ignore, would cost them quite a bit more than *just* the 40% of female gamers who purchase games from speciality stores(Hell, were it not for my mom, we never would have played Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Heros of Might and Magic, or Vampire: Bloodlines, my dad and I were the ones who baught those for her, and eventually played them with her).

 

As for the Restoration Project, I didn't think that there was much to be restored for male PCs in the first place...

And you're being just as childish as you claim Aurora was.

 

(sorry for being hostile, and my spelling socks, but I just woke up and this was one of the first things to greet me this morning <_< ...keep up the fight metadigital, tmp, Aurora, and Atomic Space Vixen )

...the delete button should not be in such an easy to mistakenly press place...

[tmp]

I don't care if the percentage of women is 5%, 15%, 25% or even 40%.  It's been a while since I was in math class, but that still makes the MAJORITY of the market male, and thus it's still better business to cater to the 60% market rather than the 40% market.

It's been a while since i was in math class as well, but i seem to recall 60% + 40% is considerably larger than 60% ... i don't see why taking into account wider playerbase is automagically expected to exclude the male part of it?

 

Btw, does it mean you are okay with the idea once the numbers are reversed (and with the rate of increase we can see for female gamers, this can be sooner than you think) the game industry drops the 'boys' altogether like no-longer-worthwile hot potato and collectively starts making games for women only? (as, by your own words, it'd be simply a better business for them) :s

[GhostofAnakin]

As for the Restoration Project, I didn't think that there was much to be restored for male PCs in the first place...

And you're being just as childish as you claim Aurora was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How do you figure? She's the one that was threatening to "take her toy and go home" because she was upset by some comments in this thread. All I said was that was her prerogative, but that it'd be quite an immature thing to do.

 

As for ignoring the minority altogether, yes it would be a mistake. But all along my posts have been about CATERING to the minority. Obviously it's a wise decision to try and make all markets happy, whether it be male or female, young or old. But what I disagree with is a few posts in this thread that make it sound like game companies should shift entirely to cater to the female gamers, while not taking into account what the male gamers (ie. the majority) would think of this switch.

 

Btw, does it mean you are okay with the idea once the numbers are reversed (and with the rate of increase we can see for female gamers, this can be sooner than you think) the game industry drops the 'boys' altogether like no-longer-worthwile hot potato and collectively starts making games for women only? :s

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From a business point of view (which I've been arguing all along, even though people seem to think ANY argument involving females is automatically done for sexist reasons), yes I do think that if the market shifted and there was conclusive or atleast widespread agreement that women now occupied 60% or more (which is what males do) of the market, then game companies SHOULD cater to them first and firemost, then and only then, try to worry about the minority market.

[tmp]

As for ignoring the minority altogether, yes it would be a mistake.  But all along my posts have been about CATERING to the minority.  Obviously it's a wise decision to try and make all markets happy, whether it be male or female, young or old.  But what I disagree with is a few posts in this thread that make it sound like game companies should shift entirely to cater to the female gamers, while not taking into account what the male gamers (ie. the majority) would think of this switch.

Hmm perhaps we have misunderstanding here. Catering to me means, to supply someone with what they want. This does not imply in the slightest exclusive attention, but simply investing part of resources into enhancements of the product so it appeals to wider customer base. KotOR out of all things is a good example that it can be done, and it doesn't look like the majority of male gamers are up in arms that there's something in this game that isn't aimed squarely at them... unless they're all suffering silently because of it and don't tell, or something <_<

[GhostofAnakin]

Hmm perhaps we have misunderstanding here. Catering to me means, to supply someone with what they want. This does not imply in the slightest exclusive attention, but simply investing part of resources into enhancements of the product so it appeals to wider customer base.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That we do.

 

And thus why I believe the KOTOR series is a good compromise. But I've seen far too many posters (majority of them female) complaining that KOTOR doesn't give them ENOUGH female-gamer options. And that's where my definition of "catering" comes from, where they make it sound like game developers should go to extremes, even at the cost of upsetting the male market, just to cater to what they want to see in a video game.

[DarthSchlong]

I think Revan's offical gender should be male because, to me, the story was better as a male and the name seems more masculine. The Exile from KotOR2 does seem to fit with a female character better. I have not finished KotOR2 as a female character yet, but some of Atton comments makes for some good laughs.

[Lord Tarondor]

I decided to disregard the replies after the FF reply one with women being stupid.

 

My intention is not to degrade, or to belittle anyone -- its to point out simply that the market and percentages you speak of are vague at best. Women aren't 'stupid' in any sense of the word, its just their tastes are different. Honestly, you act as if real life warrents a 40-60% split anytime when discussing something so simple as a story like Lord of the Rings or Final Fantasy or Star Wars which have story-driven games and RPGs.

 

As for my women lying thing -- it was meant to be men who lied and said they were women so cliques on the internet could lavish them with disgusting attention.

 

The sports games comment was just a simple point showing how markets work -- there's hardly anything catering for women there and in the same market, there are many women who enjoy sports. As for RPGs, I think there's probably even less in massively story-driven games so why should companies seek to please both sides by wasting time and resources when they know they have a guarenteed tap on "60%" of the market. Companies don't spend as much time as they used to and I'm just taking that into consideration.

 

I like the comment about how ignoring 30-40% of the market is stupid; if you meant the RPG market then, yes, perhaps, but just the gaming market in general, since you bring up these ridiculous figures that probably can be dumbed down to 20%, it would be great if a company was lucky enough to have 60% of the market interested in their game. Example? Sports games, since you loathe them so much -- I doubt 7 out of every 10 people say, 'Damn, I want to play an EA Sports game right now,' so there you are.

 

As for little boys and grandpas being interested in card games and barbie funhouse or blues clues or something equally disturbing, you have little boys who are six and seven who play Star Craft, World of Warcraft, Morrowind, or something equally challenging. I know its a vague look at it, but I can just look at my 3 nieces and 4 nephews and what they have purchased for their games (5-13 yr olds) and notice the most exciting the girls have is The Hobbit, and I'm sure it gets played.

 

All I'm saying is most RPG games or story-driven games have the cliche storyline: the heroic and massive-sword carrying male or some sort of overpowered man and some cliche woman who is very sterotyped and so forth is . There may be a women side to it, but as far as I've seen, its never done even near 100% or even fully satisfying to the women who played it. But I digress: I hated KotOR'2 if you think I'm only talking about it.

 

I just have to look at how female gamers think in my school -- there's not many of them, and its pretty big school and the little gamer's clique I'm in hasn't degenerated into discussing Greene and his Thread theories or colonising Europa yet so we defenitely interact and there just isn't that many people interested in the RPG games or any market for that matter; what am I supposed to think? Oh, here's another bull**** statistic that is vague, and so it must be right. Damn you companies, you're being sexist! -- change your ways, now!

 

In closing: as for your reconstruction or building on -- you go ahead and do that. If it makes you feel better when you watch a two-dimensional character (Atton Rand) who's scene got yanked showing just how much the company cares, then by all means do it. I don't care. I won't care since its the equivalent of me caring if you could redeem the DS Female on the Star Forge through Carth; it didn't happen, it was cut and it won't matter in the next story, obviously.

[Lord Tarondor]

I think Revan's offical gender should be male because, to me, the story was better as a male and the name seems more masculine. The Exile from KotOR2 does seem to fit with a female character better. I have not finished KotOR2 as a female character yet, but some of Atton comments makes for some good laughs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Revan's story and the Exile's story, which would probably be degraded into a secondary part, were ever to be made into an actual book, you could almost guarentee they would be male. There alignment would be different perhaps, defying the Star Wars Light Side Male theme it generally takes, and if Exile was given a smaller part then perhaps the character would be female, but to satisfy the market in this current state, it would generally have to be a male main character. Its like movies that appeal 'to both crowds.' Would many have read or watched Lord of the Rings if Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Gandalf and Gimli were female characters? Probably not.

 

Would any of Stephen King's story's have sold as it has if The Dark Tower Series' Roland the Gunslinger had been a female? Probably not.

 

I'm not *trying* to be sexist but the market is just that: men have a lower tolerance of what they can watch while women can certainly enjoy them. Now, by that, I don't mean they're going to rush off and scream Gandalf everytime he comes on or buy all the games and immerse themselves. I just mean they don't generally get freaked out by it. How many people would have read Harry Potter if it was Harriet Potter? HELL, how many people would have read the series if Joanne Katherine Rowling was put instead of J.K. Rowling, initially? Not very many. Its jusy how it is -- I want it to change, but I don't think it will for another 10-15 years.

 

For gaming, I don't think it'll change for a long time since its easy to just go out and witness how easy it would be to sell the typical action-shooter to males or the RPG to a male population since they're the easiest to figure out, and since companies each year want to crank games out faster... well enough; I really don't care, in the first place. I just don't think its a reality that gamers of that magnitude exist in the marketplace you speak of. Furthermore, I don't think companies need to listen. They can ignore and they can certainl make bank, and in the end, they'll probably get female gamers anyway kind of like FF does.