Disciple & Darkside -- Am I Missing Something?

[Scott Heine]

I've finished the game on Lightside as a male (without making any of my party into Jedi for some reason; apparently I was just one conversation away on most of 'em, and had enough influence, but just never followed through... grrr...). Now I'm playing it through on Darkside as a female just to see the differences. And, yes, I feel very, very guilty... (That poor dancer; I keep collecting her tips just for fun. I don't really need the money. I'm just so... so... bad...)

 

Anyways, I've finished Dantooine and Nar Shadda, and Atton and Bao Dur are both dark Jedi now. Kreia and Visas are already Jedi. And G0T0, HK, Hanharr, and my little T3 unit cannot become Jedi. So that just leaves Disciple...

 

When I first picked him up on Dantooine, I kept the initial conversation very short. I kept reloading and saving, and no matter which option I chose I lost Influence with him. (Is it because I was thoroughly Darkside when I met him, I wonder?) Then I continued the conversation and kept gaining Influence. I'm at the point where I can offer to make him a Jedi, but he declines (and says something about it may never happen). He won't tell me what his problem is with the Jedi, either.

 

So I'm trying desperately to gain just another notch or two of Influence with the guy, because I just can't seem to make it happen through conversation. Oh, I can certainly lose Influence with the guy; I just have to slaughter some poor fool who gets in my way for no good reason. But performing acts of charity all over Nar Shadda doesn't seem to impress him at all.

 

Any suggestions? I suppose it doesn't matter a whole lot; I've got a full roster of characters to play with. But I just wanted to train up everyone possible in the party for fun...

 

Thanks for the advice & spoilers!

 

-- Scott

[Epiphany]

party members can be influenced by both ends of a shift

 

Gain or lose a ton of influence and you can convert them. Never played female so I don't know, but perhaps that's how you influence him, or just keep him around a little longer to see if you can get another point or so on his "kiss his ass" sheet?

[Scott Heine]

... just keep him around a little longer to see if you can get another point or so on his "kiss his ass" sheet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I keep pulling Disciple out at every stop and trying him with just about every action and conversation. So far nothing. I thought he'd be all jazzed about something on Korriban (being a historian and all, I figured a visit to the Sith tombs would invoke something along the way). But nothing.

 

That only leaves Onderon & Dxun left to gain influence with Disciple. Has anyone found a spot to kick Disciple up a notch on this final world for me? Remember, I'm playing Darkside this time. (And he's showing up as pretty evil already... he just won't let me train him, and he won't tell me what his beef is with the Jedi; both return "[failure]" notices in the conversation still.)

 

Thanks!

[Plutospawn]

I found Disciple to be the easiest to turn into a Jedi my first time around. I didn't even have to take him out and about in my party, I just ran through his dialogue tree. I was a goody-two-shoed light sider in my female game, so maybe that had something to do with it? If he's in your party when you first get Visas, he'll be the one you talk to and you get influence if you say the "I didn't mean to hurt her" bit. But he's a naive little boy who likes sweet little girls, so the options in the dialogue tree are pretty obvious. He never did tell me what his problem with the Jedi was, though.

[HK-74]

I, too, found that I turned Disciple into a Jedi without even trying in my first play through, as a horridly light-sided goody-two-shoes. When I play as a darkside female I just cannot turn him at all no matter how much influence I have. By the same token, turning the Handmaiden seems very difficult as a darkside male so perhaps there's an alignment conditional on their ability to be Jedized.

[Scott Heine]

...so perhaps there's an alignment conditional on their ability to be Jedized.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I wondered. When I first met him, I was pretty darn darkside (well, bottomed out, actually). I ended the conversation immediately and lost Influence. I reloaded and tried over and over again, and everything I did in the initial conversation lost at least one hit of Influence. I could follow up with a lot of dialogue that gained Influence before moving on. In fact, I even discussed training him to be a Jedi. But I can't seem to get him to budge from here.

 

GRRRR! I WILL corrupt this guy to becoming a Sith somehow!

[Random Twit]

You needn't worry about that because there is no such alignment condition--I was a vile bastard and still made him see my side of things. I'll gladly type out a bit of a guide for you, (it would be quite... long. I try to be thorough) but not just this moment, as I have to be somewhere. I will edit this post later, though.

[Lifthransir Bane]

Take Disciple and kreia and slaughter an innocent. You'll get your one influence point.

[Random Twit]

Heck with editing.

 

Silly disclaimer: My memory is notoriously bad, so lets see how much I actually remember here (and get correct)... Also, please excuse how disorganized (and grammatically wrong) this post may be.

 

I've played through the game twice so far, LS then DS, both times as a female Exile, picked up Disciple immediately after Telos in both games, and Jedified him on both paths(the DS Jedi training dialog is far more interesting). I'm currently on a third game, am considerably dark and I haven't even met Atris yet, so we'll see about the influence loss you seem to get when meeting Disciple. I can't be sure if you lose any there when DS, as I was neutral at that point, and didn't put him in my active party (or speak to him) until after getting Mira on my second planet, Nar Shadda.

 

As for the rest of your post: you're pretty much dead-on about losing influence with Disciple if you're DS, Scott. In some situations you lose no matter what you say to him. A tip is to just hold off going DS (remaining mostly neutral/slightly DS) until you've completed most of Disciple's dialog tree, do some evil junk, THEN train him to avoid losing too much influence. If you do this, then even with the below, you should still be able to train him. If not, a single good deed should be enough to make him budge.

 

But yeah, here's an example of influence loss: The typical "OMG, what happened to your face/you're falling to the darkside, blah blah blah" dialog you get with all the characters as you move closer to the darkside isn't so typical with Disciple. He has deified the Exile and views her as a heroine; to see her in a state that contradicts everything he believes to be true crushes his perceptions of her and makes him doubt, thus a loss of influence. You can even gain DS points at the same time despite not threatening/insulting him! Regardless, in both runs through the game, I still managed to Jedifie him, and he was even further down the alignment bar than I was, nearly maxed out. Creepy.

 

Anyway, here are some possible and sure places to gain influence or avoid losing any, though naturally, you'll need to bite the bullet and accept LS points for the former. If you already know of these, then I'm sorry I proved so useless. BTW, I've noticed that if you're shooting for dialog from a particular character, it's best to have him/her/it in the second party slot, next to the Exile, or just have him/her/it the only person with you. This is to make sure another character's dialog doesn't overlap, as some seem to take priority over the others. Sometimes BOTH characters respond, but... not always.

 

Oh, right... before I go any further, he's a quote from another topic:

 

Basically, finish talking to him after he says "I'm not ready yet" so you leave the dialogue with him, then you get your influence AFTER the conversation is done.  Then, immediately go talk to him again.

 

I had a problem my second time through when I think I made him a Jedi before finishing a piece of dialogue (Something about why he didn't like the Jedi.)  Even through I'd maxed out my influence with Disciple (I saw cutscenes after I did nice things with Disciple in the party and he said "wow that was really nice of you" I still wouldn't get any more influence with him) I never did a success to hear that dialogue, so watch out for that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm inclined to believe such is the case for you, as I've also missed getting the "what's your problem with the jedi" dialog in BOTH playthroughs... (I couldn't gain more influence, couldn't get that dialog, but was able to make him a Jedi. Ergh.) and it infuriates me. I love dialog, and thus have to read/hear everything in a game or a part of my brain implodes. So... just try to remember to exit before asking him anything else.

 

...Of course, there's always the possibility that to get it, you have to lose (why would the option be there, though?) enough influence with him... if so, GAH! It would make sense, though... I suppose. He does say he doesn't wish to trouble you with his problems, so maybe he'd give in if he thought less of you. Then again, it could very well be a bug. The alloted influence you're allowed to gain with Disciple seems to be a lot less than, say, Atton. Atleast, that's what I've noticed. Heck, it could even be due to the "rival" thing with Atton and Disciple--if you gain too much with either or, you can't gain enough to get all the dialog paths with the other, maybe? By the time I hit Dantooine both times, I had a good bit of influence with Atton. I'm going to try doing the opposite and see what happens.

 

But... since it already seems to be "maxed", you could be screwed, to tell you the truth(unless, as of this posting, you haven't saved the Mandalorian on the cliff on Dxun yet--see further below). Sometimes in a run through the game the alignment/influence system gets all wonky, resulting in an inability to properly gain influence(Had this problem with Visas). If you're really set on getting all his dialog, you'll just have to play through the game again, something other players seem disinclined to do, as they don't think much of Disciple. Pity.

 

All right, I've blabbered on enough. The following is a general Disciple influence gain guide (though you did ask for Dxun/Onderon, and they're near the bottom if you wish to look. As I said, it's probably too late, unfortunately. This may be useful though if you do play through as a female again.) Being how craptacular my memory is, this will be incomplete, but I'll do my best to remember the more important dialogs.

 

NOTE: Do not exit a dialog unless instructed to, and don't move on to another topic unless told to do so, if you feel like taking a chance then later kicking yourself for it. As much as I do enjoy the game, it's terribly buggy, and something may be missed if you just plow through it all.

 

TIP: I lied. I have one more thing to say before getting to the "guide", and it's a general tip for all characters. A very useful one, too: Don't kill innocents! ... Unless you have Kreia in your party, that is. If you don't mind losing (or gaining at the same time, thereby nullifying the loss pretty much) influence with her, after the familiar "didn't realise what I was doing", etc. from the other character in your party, Kreia will berate you and you respond in whatever way you wish, but it will be as if Kreia preformed a mind trick on the other character and they'll GAIN, even if it contradicts their personality.

 

Okay, it begins after this line. For real.

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. During the initial meeting with Disciple in the enclave, don't bother discussing anything and just exit the dialog and he'll offer to join. (If you do, you may lose your chance at gaining influence as you've already activated certain dialogs and can't get them again because they disappear. The game doesn't register this because he has yet to actually JOIN the party. I've had this happen with Mandalore since he doesn't actually "join" until after you flee Onderon) Say he looks capable, blah blah, and you'll gain influence. (a no-brainer, I know, but I feel the need to add this in for complete...ness) For kicks, bring Atton along and he'll complain. If he's the the first character to respond he'll go on about how the party's already full, and if he's the second, it's something along the lines of "Oh great, he's coming with us. Let's throw a party"... If memory serves correctly.

 

2. First ask him what it is he does, and he'll mention he's a historian/scientist with some medical knowledge. Go back to the original dialog tree and say "you mentioned you had medical knowledge" or such. Exit the dialog completely and talk to him again. This time, tell him you're in need of healing, even if you aren't. Afterwards ask him if that healed everything and he'll respond with something that is supposed to be flattering (I actually LIKE Disciple. Hah, take THAT, naysayers!). Finally, Tell him his words are appreciated to gain LS points and influence, I think. If you've "maxed" his influence, this won't work. The gain, that is. As always, before asking him anything else, exit the dialog just incase. And no, this can't be done over and over to gain influence. The option to thank him disappears after the first time.

 

NOTE: Do NOT continue this dialog if you're DS (Which you are. Sorry). If you do, after asking if that healed everything he'll say it did, physically, but there's still the spiritual problem you're having. Everything you say here will result in a loss of influence (and DS points for sure if you respond, can't remember if you get any if you just exit), even if you don't pick any of the responces and just exit the dialog. Remember, you can still have him heal you, just be sure not to ask if he really healed everything.

 

Oh, bloody hell. I can't remember any more of the dialog you have to initiate with Disciple. Ergh. I need to get to Disciple again and play around with his dialog tree. Anyway...

 

3. Don't kill the guy with the "J" in his name. Uh, the one that locked himself in one of the rooms in the enclave... you know, the guy who conned that other guy out of his vaporator? Yeah, him. It's the usual "Ack, killing bad! BAD Disciple!" dialog you get whenever spilling innocent blood. If you want to get around this, just bring Kreia along like I mentioned above.

 

4. Now THIS is a funny one. Remember those thugs on Nar Shaddar, the ones hassling the man near the pit? Protecting the guy is an obvious gain, but if you force persuade them to jump into the pit, you'll net yourself DS points, but still gain influence with Disciple! It's win-win! Sure, they may have deserved it, but you'd think Disciple would be a little disappointed with the way it was handled, considering the way he is. He's not like Bao Dur, who accepts whatever actions you take in such a situation as long as you're helping an innocent. I actually did this as a LSer and got a kick out of it. It just seemed so... odd.

Disciple's attitude does change somewhat though if you tell him you'll only train him if he embraces the darkside... unfortunately, however, this isn't played out in further dialog later on.

 

5. Dxun... oh boy... uh... Okay, I'm pretty sure this is the ONLY spot you can really gain influence with compassionate (or the other sort, really, by doing the opposite. Then again, my memory stinks, so...) characters on Dxun. By helping the stranded Mandalorian on the cliff you can gain influence. Either tell Disciple that "no one deserves that" or "even a Mandalorian deserves better" or whatever the responses are. You may be playing DS, but like it or not, you'll have to eat a LS point or two.

 

6. Onderon... hm, try giving a star visa to the mother and her children. That will definitely get you LS points, and perhaps influence. Again, I can't remember for sure. Sorry.

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The following has nothing to do with gaining/losing influence, but I thought it was interesting, as small as the change is.

 

In my DS run through the game, unlike any of the other characters, Disciple's reaction to the "I want to ask you some questions" thing changes depending on alignment. I'm not sure if it's the Exile's or his that matters, but I'm leaning towards the Exiles'. When I played as a DSer, I remained neutral/light, since I wanted to get Mira right after getting Disciple and finishing Dantooine, as I mentioned above. I only spoke to him ONCE the entire time, having clicked on him accidentally and immediately quitting the dialog as I wanted to try getting everything from him as a DSer. I left all the optional quests on Nar Shadda alone, in hopes of raking in DS points after the whole thing with that pain in the arse, G0-T0. I don't know about the rest of you, but I managed to tick off the exchange very early on in both games, and never had a problem with the Red Eclipse (?) twits showing up.

 

Well, anyway, when you're more into the light, Disciple says his "That is hardly surprising. What do you wish to know?" line conversationaly, and that's it. When you're more neutral, he says, "Of course. What is it you'd like to know?"(close enough, anyway) almost anxiously, I thought. After you fall further, he's far more subdued, and his voice is softer, as if he's saddened and disappointed by what's happened to you. He says "Very well. What did you wish to know?", hesitating on the 'What'.

 

 

...Blargh. Not being able to remember everything gives me the sudden urge to run off and play a bit. I hope what I DID manage to remember is helpful.

[Scott Heine]

RT, you are absolutely, positively the greatest. Thank you SO much for spending the time to type all that out. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna take ol' Disciple through his paces once more and see if I can't use this information to sway him into being my "right hand man" as a Sith fiend.

 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

 

-- Scott

[Random Twit]

You're very, very welcome. I really do hope it helps. If it doesn't, then, wow, what a waste of space that post of mine was!

Also, geez, I can't believe I didn't mention this before:

 

It's probably another no-brainer, but a sure way of gaining with Disciple is to support/protect the republic in everything--he's a true patriot and it shows in his dialog(even the DS Jedi training bit!).

 

And about Onderon: trying giving a star visa to the republic... guy. The one in the cantina. Yeah... I can't really remember anymore about that, heh. I think I recall it working for Bao Dur as well, though...

 

Now, for the evil "What's you're problem with the Jedi?" dialog: I have a sneaking suspicion that you may need to have gone through other influence dialog checks to unlock it... maybe. I say this because the branch of dialog I found can involve convincing him that his worst fears are true, and the Jedi have indeed abandoned the Republic. You only have one chance to get this dialog;if you don't get it the first time, that's it.<---DS points and a loss of influence in the following dialog for it, BTW.

 

Regardless, I stumbled upon the above after picking something I had completely glossed over during my previous LS/DS runs. As I recall(which I probably don't, really, but I sure as heck will try), to get to that point you need to ask if you've met before/tell him he looks familiar(or is it the one where you ask about his training on Dantooine? The one you get AFTER mentioning he looks familiar?><).

 

After a bit of talking you can say "I have found one of the lost Jedi"(Vrook, Kavar, or the master with the "Z" in his name. If you actually have, of course). Even further still, if you tell him the Jedi abandoned the republic, it will lead to more dialog and an influence check. If you fail, he says he doesn't believe you, etc.. If you succeed he says... some stuff. Once again, I don't remember. Sorry. Just thought I'd mention all of this in case you were curious. I have yet to actually gain more influence back after doing this to try and get the "problem with the jedi" bit to work, so... Eh.

[agentdeadlyangel]

Don't forget that losing influence will also cause someone to answer your questions and align with you eventually. I think the idea is that they fear you so they respond to you. I haven't experienced this myself, but I have heard a lot of people say it works.

[blindfreak]

Abot the part wher everyone says that they did not figure out his problem with the jrdi, this is what happened. he syas that he was an apprentice and was going to be assigned to a master. then the mandolaorians wars started. his master to be left and he was passed up for traing since thier just werent enough masters. the thing is, the players chareter is who his master was origanally going to be. if you do the diaolog properly, then you will hear this.