Video Card

[Cantousent]

Okay, here's the question. It's a simple sort of multiple choice question.

 

A> Should I get a 3.2Ghz with a better motherboard but a Radeon 9600

 

or

 

B> A 3.0Ghz/motherboard with a Radeon 9800 pro

 

or

 

C> The system as I described it.

 

I guess some of the posts have made me rethink and just ask for general advice.

[mkreku]

I'd personally go for the B option, because that's almost the exact same setup as I am using myself. The Radeon 9800 Pro (choose one with 256Mb) is an excellent choice for gaming and runs every game on the market with skyhigh fps. Far Cry looks absolutely awesome on my machine. But if I was going to get a new system now, I'd definitely go for a Athlon 64 mounted on an Nforce 3-250 motherboard. If I could afford it I'd buy a Radeon X800 too..

[ILs]

Why do you have to play DOOM III, if you can get twice more fun of soul Reaver 2, Planescape or Chess?

 

If I want to try a game, I go to a Internet-cafe. I don't pay additional 400 bucks for the hardware, that supprorts 80% of games that I may not like...

 

The phrase I said right now is very pathetic, but I said it just cuz it sounds nice...

[chemchok]

Well, if you really want Doom to run well, go with option B and get a 256mb card like mrkeku suggested. The 256 mb card is going to make a big difference over a 128mb card because of the size of textures in the game.

[Child of Flame]

Well, if you really want Doom to run well, go with option B and get a 256mb card like mrkeku suggested. The 256 mb card is going to make a big difference over a 128mb card because of the size of textures in the game.

Heh, I kinda doubt anything that's out when Doom III comes out is going to be able to run it at a very high frame rate at full resolutions, textures, etc. If you remember when Max Payne 2 came out, though they did an EXCELLENT job on making it compatible with lower end systems, my current system still can't run it with all of the options turned on. <_<

[chemchok]

Well, if you really want Doom to run well, go with option B and get a 256mb card like mrkeku suggested.  The 256 mb card is going to make a big difference over a 128mb card because of the size of textures in the game.

Heh, I kinda doubt anything that's out when Doom III comes out is going to be able to run it at a very high frame rate at full resolutions, textures, etc. If you remember when Max Payne 2 came out, though they did an EXCELLENT job on making it compatible with lower end systems, my current system still can't run it with all of the options turned on. <_<

Well, maybe I should have clarified that. There will be a big difference between how well it runs on a 128 or a 256mb card. I didn't mean to imply you'll be able to run it with the settings maxed out.

[Antagonist]

Eldar,

 

if the computer is intended for playing games I'd go for Athlon64 and a high-end card like the Radeon9800 Pro (which is very cheap by now, and extremly powerful). By buying a weak graphic card you could effectivly cripple your computer for games. More and more engine calculations are optimized for GPUs and not CPUs, so even with a 3.2 GHz processor games might run slow or at least no as fast as one would expect.

 

Depending on the software you use I would consider buying an Intel processor. Sadly, most "proffessional" programs are still compiled for Intel architectures and benchmarks prove it, while the Athlon 64 is perfect for games with the memory controller being build into the CPU itsself.

 

So, my advice would be to invest into the graphic card. I already mentioned the Radeon 9800 Pro which is a very powerful card which is very cheap now.

 

You could also wait another year until all the new technologies like BTX and PCI-Express are established but so far Benchmarks didn't show any difference performancewise to their PCI 2.1 counterparts and they will be probably very expensive at the beginning.

 

Antagonist

[JSaltz]

gffgfg

[Cantousent]

Okay, I'll bite, what's gffgfg mean?

[Cantousent]

I hate to perform necromancy on my own threads, but this is the final build and I was hoping that some of you folks might be willing to comment on what I hope to be my final build.

 

1 RAIDMAX Blue Aluminum Gaming Case with 420W Power Supply, Model "668WUP" -RETAIL

Item# N82E16811156151

$84.00

 

 

 

1 GIGABYTE "GA-8IK1100" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL

Item# N82E16813128183

$122.00

 

 

 

1 ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL

Item# N82E16814102361

$266.00

 

 

 

1 Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

 

Item# N82E16819116171

$213.00

 

 

 

1 Geil Ultra Series Value Dual Channel 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 w/ Blue Heatspreader - Retail

Item# N82E16820144310

$191.00

 

 

 

1 Microsoft Optical Wheel Mouse BLACK PS/2 /USB Version 1.1a -OEM

Item# N82E16826105143

$14.00

 

 

 

1 ACTIVISION Doom III - PC Game RETAIL

Item# N82E16832133112

$49.99

 

 

 

1 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM

Item# N82E16837102141

$90.00

 

 

Okay, if you'll kindly bear with me:

 

The question is first of all, the general opinion regarding the system.

 

Second of all, I decided to go for the high end graphics card suggestion. This is something along the lines of what mkreku mentioned.

 

The real question is, should I stay with the 9800pro or spend $70 more to get the 9800xt. One worry I have is that the 9800xt says that it supports OpenGL 1.5 while the 9800Pro says it supports OpenGL 2.0. That seems a bit counter intuitive. The speed on the board and memory are faster on the XT, but it didn't seem as if it would be a huge difference the other specs seemed pretty much the same. What to do? heh. I'd like to make a purchase on the hardware and get it assembled before the new school year begins.

[mkreku]

1 GIGABYTE "GA-8IK1100" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL 

Item# N82E16813128183 

$122.00

 

1 Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

 

Item# N82E16819116171 

$213.00

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The graphics card is fine. You don't really want to go with the XT-version of the Radeon 9800, since it's only an overclocked version of the Pro. You can overclock the Pro-model yourself later if you want to. But if you have a LOT more money to spend you could perhaps get a X800Pro instead. Very expensive but 50% faster than the 9800Pro.

 

Those two items in the quote above could easily be traded for a faster Athlon 64-system for the same price. The Nforce3-250 even has a built-in hardware firewall that's supposed to be very effective.

[Child of Flame]

I hate to perform necromancy on my own threads, but this is the final build and I was hoping that some of you folks might be willing to comment on what I hope to be my final build.

 

1  RAIDMAX Blue Aluminum Gaming Case with 420W Power Supply, Model "668WUP" -RETAIL 

Item# N82E16811156151 

$84.00

 

 

   

1 GIGABYTE "GA-8IK1100" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL 

Item# N82E16813128183 

$122.00

 

 

   

1 ATI RADEON 9800 PRO Video Card, 256MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL 

Item# N82E16814102361 

$266.00

 

 

   

1 Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

 

Item# N82E16819116171 

$213.00

 

 

   

1 Geil Ultra Series Value Dual Channel 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 w/ Blue Heatspreader - Retail

Item# N82E16820144310 

$191.00

 

 

   

1 Microsoft Optical Wheel Mouse BLACK PS/2 /USB Version 1.1a -OEM 

Item# N82E16826105143 

$14.00

 

 

   

1 ACTIVISION Doom III - PC Game RETAIL 

Item# N82E16832133112 

$49.99

 

 

   

1 Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a - OEM 

Item# N82E16837102141 

$90.00

 

 

Okay, if you'll kindly bear with me:

 

The question is first of all, the general opinion regarding the system.

 

Second of all, I decided to go for the high end graphics card suggestion.  This is something along the lines of what mkreku mentioned.

 

The real question is, should I stay with the 9800pro or spend $70 more to get the 9800xt.  One worry I have is that the 9800xt says that it supports OpenGL 1.5 while the 9800Pro says it supports OpenGL 2.0.  That seems a bit counter intuitive.  The speed on the board and memory are faster on the XT, but it didn't seem as if it would be a huge difference the other specs seemed pretty much the same.  What to do?  heh.  I'd like to make a purchase on the hardware and get it assembled before the new school  year begins.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'd go for THIS CARD if I were you instead. You really won't see much of a performance increase between the card you picked, and the one in the link; it will be negligible at best. Plus, look at not only the price difference, but the heatsinks on this mofo. It not only has the normal GPU heatsink and fan, but they've got all the ram decked out as well (usually you have to buy those suckers and install them yourself), which is awesome for overclocking. And yes, you can overclock an XT into what's called 'overdrive'. Also, the 9600 models are much better for overclocking because of the kind of heat sensors they have onboard.

 

The only real reason the 9800 is more expensive, is because the people who don't know their sh!t see the bigger number and think it's better. But the 9600XT is be best bang for buck.

[EnderAndrew]

Slick's got it right. That's the way I'd go.

 

And if this is a game-rig for Doom, I'd go with an Athlon-64. But overall looks good, and I love www.newegg.com

[Cantousent]

Okay, I'd like to express some gratitude on the advice you guys have given me. I took everything I read, did some research on some of what you've said, finalized everything and made my purchase. A few weeks of thinking and pondering the issue and I've ended up with a system that I hope will last me another three years. After all, the system I have now wasn't better for its time and it's lasted pretty well.

 

Once again, thanks.

[mkreku]

There's actually a huge difference between the 9800 and the 9600. They're not based off of the same GPU, and the 9800 has much better hardware stats. 9600 is a middle range card while the 9800 used to be the high end card (before the X800). It's very easy to find this information on the internet, but I'll settle for a picture:

 

 

Eldar: Feel free to post the final specs to see how much of an influence we've made

[Guest Surlent]

Where did you Eldar read Radeon 9800pro supports OpenGL 2.0 ??

I haven't seen any models with 2.0 support....

Highest I've seen is OpenGl 1.5.

 

If you have the buck, you might consider Radeon x800 or Geforce 6800 series.

They are expensive though.....

[Cantousent]

Well, I decided on the specs I posted above. I'd seen Tom's Hardware and decided to keep the 9800pro video card.

 

I agonized over going for the Athlon 64 in a big way. Still, even though it would have been faster, and I like the Nforce3-250 a lot, I went with the Intel. I've just been using Intel for so long, and so successfully, that I didn't want to take a chance. ...And the prices were virtually the same. I think the difference between the Athlon 64 2.2 and the Intel CPU above, if we count the motherboards, was something like $2.

 

If I were suggesting the system to someone else, I would suggest the Athlon but, to show I'm a hypocrite, when it came time for me to lay my money down, I was a coward.

 

Overall, the folks suggesting a high-end graphics card prevailed on my reasoning. I didn't buy the best CPU, but the motherboard does support faster CPUs if I want to upgrade. The case is huge and has a good power supply and three fans, so if I choose, at a later time, I can just replace the motherboard and CPU and keep the case and other hardware. Let's face it, though, as long as it keeps up with the games I play at reasonable settings, I'll stick with thise setup for a long time.

 

As for the OpenGl 2.0, I got that from the newegg.com website. Now, it's possible that they had it wrong, but the difference in price between the xt and pro was substantial. The cheapest xt was $339 and the pro was $266. So, I don't know if newegg had it wrong, but I was willing to chance it. Anyhow, I was already buying into mkreku's reasoning on the matter and it made sense to me to go for the pro. I don't doubt that the xt is faster. I just don't think it was $71 faster.

[Guest Surlent]

Well if you ask me Radeon9800pro is good for price/quality.

I've seen it run Farcry, Deus Ex:Invisible War and Thief:Deadly Shadows very well, so it's not bad card you are going to get.

 

After having digged some of that OpenGL, it seems they actually do support OpenGl2,0 to some point at least in theory.

[Child of Flame]

There's actually a huge difference between the 9800 and the 9600. They're not based off of the same GPU, and the 9800 has much better hardware stats. 9600 is a middle range card while the 9800 used to be the high end card (before the X800). It's very easy to find this information on the internet, but I'll settle for a picture:

 

 

Eldar: Feel free to post the final specs to see how much of an influence we've made

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes, but once you get to 60-70 FPS, your eyes really aren't going to notice a difference so long as it's not lagging anywhere. Plus, I was playing off the overclocking potential of the card I linked to, not what it does out of the box.

[Cantousent]

I guess it's all over now, but one of my concerns is heat. How much heat will the 9800 pro generate and what would the 9600 overclock have generated. The case has three fans, which I might replace. I think everything should be cool enough.

[mkreku]

I guess it's all over now, but one of my concerns is heat.  How much heat will the 9800 pro generate and what would the 9600 overclock have generated.  The case has three fans, which I might replace.  I think everything should be cool enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I own a Radeon 9800 Pro myself and it comes with its own fan that's very effective. It doesn't do much damage to the heat-level inside your case. Strangely enough, the harddrives seem to generate much more heat than the graphics card for me.. With three case fans you should be more than ok, seeing as I have none.

[Dakoth]

Well, while you might think PCI Express is a reasonable investment right now, for $500 you can get a non PCI Express GFX card that will knock the bloody socks off of all the PCI Express cards out right now.  Don't remember the exact name right now, but it's by 3D Labs, it's one of their Wildcat series, and it has 512 MB onboard DDR RAM.  I haven't actually seen a review on it yet, but it's fully Direct X 9.0 and Open GL compatible, and so long as it's coupled with a decent GPU, more onboard RAM means almost universally better performance.  That's what I'll be buying along with the above mentioned upgrade to keep my PC up to snuff until next year when BTX Form Factor comes out, and this year's tech prices have gone down. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would be very caeful when buying a wildcat card for games. Number one the cheapest I have seen it sold for is $700.00. Reason number two being there is a difference between a gaming card and a rendering card. From all the information I have gathered these cards are built specifically for rendering in CAD and for people doing Computer animation. Which means all the fun support for pixle shaders, anti ailising, and anisotropic filtering are non existant. Also more ram does not always equal faster, the arciteture of the card has a lot to do with it also. This is appearant in the new Maximum PC where the lower clock speed of the GeForce 6800 gt was offset by more pixel pipelines giving it an edge in the bench marks over the X800 pro. Most people also assume more GHZ=better performance.

[Cantousent]

newegg is awesome. I ordered everything Sunday night and I received everything except the CPU this morning before 11am.

[mkreku]

newegg is awesome.  I ordered everything Sunday night and I received everything except the CPU this morning before 11am.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You see? The Pentium 4 is slower than the Ahtlon 64..

[Cantousent]

hahahaha that was a good one, mkreku. lolol