Light Side Powers

[Influence]

2nd using force powers, whatever they might be, to harm people is evil and therefore ds.

 

Why does it matter how you kill people as long as you kill them? A light side Jedi can (and usually does) buff himself up with things like Master Valor, Master Speed, and so on. My LS Consular had a lot less trouble killing Malak than my DS Consular -- just buff up and hack him to pieces. Using the Force to make your body into a deadly weapon with which you then kill people is logically equivalent to using the Force as a weapon if your objection is to inflicting harm on others. Unless, of course, the Force doesn't understand motivations -- Master Valor and Master Speed can be (and often are) used for things other than violence while Force Choke and Force Kill have no other purposes.

 

I'd actually be perfectly happy with some more Light Side powers like Force Valor. But only as long as they are actually useful -- for example, Force Armor or whatever that thing was called, was pretty worthless given its duration and effects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As for teh First part, you are correct with your statement qabout the force having no motivation. I am suggestign force powers that happen to benefit your attack for instance your mind woudl be in a meditative state and your thought prcesses woudl be more acute, you woudl have a faster reaction time, and your body coudl focus on more accurate and powerfull body actions, for both defense and consequencely offensive.

[TheHutt]

"Sometimes The Best Defense Is The Best Offense" And Vice-Versa.

[HalasterBlack]

1)Its already been addressed in the Star Wars storyline that Force Power are not based on light or dark side. That in fact the light and the dark side do not really exist. (Zong Saga).

The existance of the force does not completely change how morals work, it merely tempts you. As if you constantly had gum in your mouth but were not supposed to chew it. Similar to as if you were an absolute monarch.

 

2) The only power of the Jedi or Sith really have is use of the force, which can do anything.

 

However in order to use the force you must shape it in your mind to the task at hand.

Thus a Jedi who had never used telekinesis before would have a much more diffucult time than a Jedi who was used to the mindset. Its like visualizing a lamp in your mind. The first time you try to its blurly and hard to maintain, but after 50 or so visualizations you can achieve photo-like realism. (similar to David Eddings the Will and the Word in the Belgariad)

 

Did Vader and the Emporer have similar powers because they were both dark side or had low morals? No!

 

Vader was a master of Telekinesis(Choke) and Energy Absorbtion(Absorb-Emporers lightning for one)

 

Palpatine was a master of Energy Creation(Lightning) and Mind Manipulation(Battle Meditation)

 

The morality of a force-user does not make up his powers, his mind and its abilities make up his core powers.

 

3) The light side had Speed the most powerful of all the powers so I see no reason for Lightsiders to complain. Plus its not as if you couldn't choose lightning, the fact that it was aggressive is what made it Dark Side, and to make aggressive light side powers just messes up the point of the Dark Side.

[Influence]

uGGGGGGGGHhhhhhhhhhhhhh  I don't even understand what you want anymore influence... you say they have to offensive powers, now you're saying they do... and the reason Jedi's don't have massively offensive forces is because they can use those other offensive force things like Jump and their pure sabre skill and training. If you want to be an offensive char that wants offensive force powers instead of reason and alternative option... then go DS!! <_< Jeez

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I DONT WANT TO BE EVIL I JUST WANNA KILL SITH AND LOOK LIEK A POWERFUL AND STRONG JEDI AS I DO IT! ALL I WANT IS SOMETHING LIEK TEH VAPAAD STNACE EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LIGHT SIDE THATS ALL!

[Influence]

1)Its already been addressed in the Star Wars storyline that Force Power are not based on light or dark side. That in fact the light and the dark side do not really exist. (Zong Saga).

The existance of the force does not completely change how morals work, it merely tempts you. As if you constantly had gum in your mouth but were not supposed to chew it. Similar to as if you were an absolute monarch.

 

2) The only power of the Jedi or Sith really have is use of the force, which can do anything.

 

However in order to use the force you must shape it in your mind to the task at hand.

Thus a Jedi who had never used telekinesis before would have a much more diffucult time than a Jedi who was used to the mindset. Its like visualizing a lamp in your mind. The first time you try to its blurly and hard to maintain, but after 50 or so visualizations you can achieve photo-like realism. (similar to David Eddings the Will and the Word in the Belgariad)

 

Did Vader and the Emporer have similar powers because they were both dark side or had low morals?  No!

 

Vader was a master of Telekinesis(Choke) and Energy Absorbtion(Absorb-Emporers lightning for one)

 

Palpatine was a master of Energy Creation(Lightning) and Mind Manipulation(Battle Meditation)

 

The morality of a force-user does not make up his powers, his mind and its abilities make up his core powers.

 

3) The light side had Speed the most powerful of all the powers so I see no reason for Lightsiders to complain. Plus its not as if you couldn't choose lightning, the fact that it was aggressive is what made it Dark Side, and to make aggressive light side powers just messes up the point of the Dark Side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have good points... but tehn your last stement is not neccessarily true. SPeed is a Universal Powers is it not? Master SPeed? ALl im saying is that JEdi Can and DO use offensive powers. Vapaad is an offensive use of the force that is used by LIGHT Jedi... thats teh type of thing im talking about. Jedi guardians are establsihed as aggressive when you take the test on DANtooine hes asaks you if a sith stops in battel wat do you do? and YOu Answer COntinue the attack and defeat him is teh choice for JEDI guardian. Obviously you can be aggressive and STILL be LS!!!!!

 

I jsut want soem aggressive force powers to make the LS more like it woudl be in the novels and movies. And that is, you are not restricted to using aggressive powers (Vapaad, Guardian, characters in Clone Wars Cartoon). But since the KOTOR system DOES desginate between LS powers and DS powers if you are lightside you are penalized for using DS powers. WHich has reasonable in its own right because they may lead to teh DS, but gives the Jedi an unrealistic, according to teh Novels and movie, force disadvantage over the DS.

 

IMPORTANT : IN Ep. 2 Yoda and Dooku were equal in force power attacks. THere fore yoda was able to fight Dooku wihtout hsi lightsaber. In teh KOTOR game it woudl be impossible for a LS consular to Beat a DS consular usign only force powers, since teh LS has NO aggressive ONES! WHile yoda or a Jedi master such as yoda would be able to beat a DS consular using force powers alone!

 

EDIT: Its me vs the world on this Topic AND I LIKE THE ODDS BABY!

[TheHutt]

I never meant to imply that a Jedi cannot be aggressive... just that foce powers like force lightning and whirlwind flow through ones hatred. The Jedi are taught to control these feelings and is why they are told not to use them and shouldn't use them. Because that would be giving into the temptation of hate and doom and you would become DS yourself. The Jedi council has an on-going problem with the conversion of LS Jedi to DS. Thus, you're told that there are DS powers, LS powers, and Universal Powers. Those who do not use DS powers will be able to withstand that temptation.

Now.. if you are playing KOTOR2 and you insist on being a LS all the way through? Why would you give in to hate and take the evil powers that draw and consume you to the other side? The simple answer is that you don't... you trust in your training at the academy and the values of the Jedi society and use LS powers of knowledge and thought to create a masterful Jedi. Once again... if you really want to use force powers that draw from hate and main purposes are to hurt people and inflict damage then you should go DS for KOTOR2... stop asking that a LS Jedi fuel his hate for the purpose of destruction... pllllleeease <_<

[starwarskid15_19]

he never said anything about fueling their hate. he means that he wants to be able to go out there and not be a weakling. he wants to use vaapad (which would be impossible cuz mace invented it) and kill sith like they try to kill him

[Influence]

I never meant to imply that a Jedi cannot be aggressive... just that foce powers like force lightning and whirlwind flow through ones hatred. The Jedi are taught to control these feelings and is why they are told not to use them and shouldn't use them. Because that would be giving into the temptation of hate and doom and you would become DS yourself. The Jedi council has an on-going problem with the conversion of LS Jedi to DS. Thus, you're told that there are DS powers, LS powers, and Universal Powers. Those who do not use DS powers will be able to withstand that temptation.

Now.. if you are playing KOTOR2 and you insist on being a LS all the way through? Why would you give in to hate and take the evil powers that draw and consume you to the other side? The simple answer is that you don't... you trust in your training at the academy and the values of the Jedi society and use LS powers of knowledge and thought to create a masterful Jedi. Once again... if you really want to use force powers that draw from hate and main purposes are to hurt people and inflict damage then you should go DS for KOTOR2... stop asking that a LS Jedi fuel his hate for the purpose of destruction... pllllleeease  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WHirlwidn is universal replace that with drain or KIll

[Influence]

he never said anything about fueling their hate.  he means that he wants to be able to go out there and not be a weakling.  he wants to use vaapad (which would be impossible cuz mace invented it) and kill sith like they try to kill him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pretty much your right. Mace had offensive force powers Yoda had offensive force powers, they did not run around and just use force armor and stasis then run away from the fight. If your implying, Hutt and everyoen else, that Yoda could only use his lightsaber to fight, because he did not use offensive "LS force powers" then you are sayinging he is useless and weak without his saber and therefore could not defeat enemies with the force alone, which is Not the case!

 

And i want to use something LIKE vapaad i used it as an example of a LS power that was aggressive.

[Laozi]

I'm not arguing with you, I kndof like the idea of a battle trance, but thats kind of like knight's speed

[TheHutt]

Yes but we're not talking about Yoda or your blatent obsession on Mace Windu... this is about KOTOR the game... 4000 years before the stuff you are talking about. Also, Yoda and Mace Windu are Jedi Masters who can resist the DS with ease... also i never said Yoda was useless... we all saw him lift the X-wing out of the swamp I'm just saying that when they use there force powers it is not out of hate. There power comes from their devotion to the light side and the proper balance in the universe. :ph34r:

KOTOR force system is based on DS and LS... so each side is just taking the best prospects on each side... maybe the devs thought that in order to distinguish the two they'd have to make the LS force powers more defensive. That way there is a line between good and evil. It works well for the game... maybe not for the story of the movies and novels as you have pointed out influence. B)

I mean when you think of the light side... you don't immediately think, " Yea that LS Jedi just choked that kid like a muthar!! Yay go force lightning! strike down the ewoks for hilarious results"

[Influence]

I'm not arguing with you, I kndof like the idea of a battle trance, but thats kind of like knight's speed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but instead of jsut increasing defesne, it increases offenses so knight speed in addition to the battel trance woudl be schway...

 

And still i think other offensive force powers shoudl be explored now that we established a JEdi can be "offensive" as weel as on teh Light Side and benevolent.

[Laozi]

doesn't it increase your attack after you level up

[TheHutt]

Isn't battle med. a rip of like death/stasis field? Knight speed and battle med seems like a sweet combo..... for DS I would think that Knight speed and Force Fury would be sweet bloodlusting time :D

[Influence]

Yes but we're not talking about Yoda or your blatent obsession on Mace Windu... this is about KOTOR the game... 4000 years before the stuff you are talking about. Also, Yoda and Mace Windu are Jedi Masters who can resist the DS with ease... also i never said Yoda was useless... we all saw him lift the X-wing out of the swamp    I'm just saying that when they use there force powers it is not out of hate. There power comes from their devotion to the light side and the proper balance in the universe.  :ph34r: 

KOTOR force system is based on DS and LS... so each side is just taking the best prospects on each side... maybe the devs thought that in order to distinguish the two they'd have to make the LS force powers more defensive. That way there is a line between good and evil. It works well for the game... maybe not for the story of the movies and novels as you have pointed out influence.  B)

I mean when you think of the light side... you don't immediately think, " Yea that LS Jedi just choked that kid like a muthar!! Yay go force lightning! strike down the ewoks for hilarious results"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hutt your missign the point Light JEDI DO NOT USE THEIR POWERS FOR EVIL. BUt they can use the force to DEFEAT dark Jedi Especially Jedi Guardian.I think if in K2 you chose to be a JEdi Master you woudl be able to resist the lure of teh DS and therefull be able to use more advanced and experimental feats not soemthign liek Kill or FUrry, but telekensis in which you through a Dark Jedi to the groudn with the floor and then pull him towards you to figh thim hand to hadn in close quarters combat.

 

This is WELL WIthing the bounds of a Jedi especially the JEDi Guardian who is expected to be offfensive, nto evill, dangerous, and harmful, but if you objective is to defeat your opponent, a Jedi will use offensive powers, now jsut agree with me on this Hutt, If yoda COuld use offensive powers to defeat the sith, our character shoudl be able to use offensive force powers to defeat teh sith, not just force armor. SPeed was a lightside and DS power so its not to be considered Ls... THerefore Ls has very good powers

[Laozi]

Ya jedis don't even use there most rancid farts for evil

[Influence]

doesn't it increase your attack after you level up

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It increases ur attakcs per round, but it does nto increase your attack rating or your damage issuement.

[TheHutt]

I know Speed was universal...

And where did i miss the point about Jedi's not using their powers for hate? Cuz in my post it clearly states i understand that position.

ONCE AGAIN.... I'm not talkin about SW in general.

I am talking about KOTOR.

In KOTOR if you use force push it causes damage... it does not twirl the body around and you can move him around the room at your whim and then pull him to your blue lightsabre... that's just plain nonsense.

*Watches Influence wave around a stormtrooper for amusement*

<<Gets bored with the show and kills the stormtrooper with my sabre quickly and gets the job done without some tricks>>

Wow i was being aggressive like a Guardian should be and I got the job done faster!

[Influence]

I know Speed was universal...

And where did i miss the point about Jedi's not using their powers for hate? Cuz in my post it clearly states i understand that position.

ONCE AGAIN.... I'm not talkin about SW in general.

I am talking about KOTOR.

In KOTOR if you use force push it causes damage... it does not twirl the body around and you can move him around the room at your whim and then pull him to your blue lightsabre... that's just plain nonsense.

*Watches Influence wave around a stormtrooper for amusement*

<<Gets bored with the show and kills the stormtrooper with my sabre quickly and gets the job done without some tricks>>

Wow i was being aggressive like a Guardian should be and I got the job done faster! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right because the guardian has good SABER attacks and is effective in that right, but there should be aggressive FORCE powers as well, not just sabers its more balanced that way and falls inline better with the SW universe.

 

The poitn is its more realistic and more asthetically appeasing to have Light side offensive powers, I played on the LS and liked it but there should be more offensive tricks in KOTOR that Jedi have. This should be so, Becasue thats how the SW UNIVERSE

[TheHutt]

That is the balance! Don't you see by now.... The DS jedi's are good at aggressive force powers... so the LS use the sabre technique and the guidance of the force to conquer the physical side!

Physical Vs. Mental = Balance

One side is weak in physical, so they are strong in mind aggression.

One side is weak in mental, so they are strong in physical technique.

Thats one of the many balances within the SW universe, it's obvious, not complicated... so stop contradicting it!

[Influence]

That is the balance! Don't you see by now.... The DS jedi's are good at aggressive force powers... so the LS use the sabre technique and the guidance of the force to conquer the physical side!

Physical Vs. Mental = Balance

One side is weak in physical, so they are strong in mind aggression.

One side is weak in mental, so they are strong in physical technique.

Thats one of the many balances within the SW universe, it's obvious, not complicated... so stop contradicting it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true, Dooku is jsut as good with a saber as yoda, Darth maul wielded a saber adn not to many force powers, and yoda is jsut as good in force powers as Dooku was.

Hutt i think i won this point you can agree with me theres no shame in it.

[TheHutt]

Lol..... guess what Darth Maul got beaten, Dooku got beaten, and Yoda just died from natural causes... so whats all this about DS being good in sabre battles?

=cough=gg=cough=

Also you abandoned your ridiculous idea about twirling troops around with your force pull and push? So hastey to give up on yourself?

A lot of the stuff you keep bringing up is invalid and illogical... don't try to claim victory over me <_<

[Influence]

Lol..... guess what Darth Maul got beaten, Dooku got beaten, and Yoda just died from natural causes... so whats all this about DS being good in sabre battles?

=cough=gg=cough=

Also you abandoned your ridiculous idea about twirling troops around with your force pull and push? So hastey to give up on yourself?

A lot of the stuff you keep bringing up is invalid and illogical... don't try to claim victory over me  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THe point is ur statement aobut DS beign all FOrce power and LS being all saber is very wrong.. sweetie :D

 

I still think telekenis of pushing and pulling troops woudl be good, i say get rid of force wave and replace it with forcemanipulation in which teh character throws teh bodys jsut liek in force wave but then puills them towards him, so you dont have to go runnign after teh poepl u jsut knokced down. THe bodys shoudl come flying to ur feets so you can attack them. That coudl be a universal power.

[TheHutt]

OMG where do i say that they are ALL ONE SIDE!!!!!! IT DOESN't SAY THAT ANYWHERE.... it says they're weak in some points of being a Jedi and stronger in the other!!!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD...... you are driving me insane!! are you even reading the posts!?!?! are you illiterate!?? You haven't made any sense all day and all your points are irrelavant! I can't handle this RUBBISH... PURE RUBBISH.... I refuse to post any more replies on this topic... you are ridiculous! Can't anyone have a normal conversation anymore!?!?

[Influence]

OMG where do i say that they are ALL ONE SIDE!!!!!! IT DOESN't SAY THAT ANYWHERE.... it says they're weak in some points of being a Jedi and stronger in the other!!!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD...... you are driving me insane!! are you even reading the posts!?!?! are you illiterate!?? You haven't made any sense all day and all your points are irrelavant! I can't handle this RUBBISH... PURE RUBBISH.... I refuse to post any more replies on this topic...  you are ridiculous! Can't anyone have a normal conversation anymore!?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SRy i cant read this.. im illiterate