Prestige Classes

[alanschu]

If you choose to live in your fantasy woirld who am I to stop you. Obsidian might say they are going to balance the non-jedi with the jedi material, but actions speak louder than words.

Since we haven't seen any actions, you also have nothing to base your opinion on...just being cynical.

[Judge Hades]

I know the game mechanics of the d20 System which KotOR 2 is based on. I have a good working knowledge of the setting and the source material used from the PnP game. I have played KotOR 1 numorous times and I know the structure and engine they will be using in KotOR 2.

 

I stand by my assessment.

[alanschu]

Despite the fact you reiterate how poorly KOTOR adheres to the D20? They could do anything.

[Judge Hades]

Not with Grandpa Georgie overlooking their shoulder.

[nightcleaver]

Which would decimate the non-jedi party members so what would be the point of putting them in the game in the first place? You can make the game balanced against Jedi or balanced for non-Jedi. There is no way to do both.

What??? Let me restate: They'll balance the game for the non-Jedi through story and gameplay scenarios. That would easily bring them on par with Jedi.

 

Keep in mind you can't take away all their powers, because the style of a Jedi is a melee combatant that can handle long range combat - if they couldn't, they wouldn't really be a viable class. You might not think that's good enough if it's not put in game mechanics, but honestly - in real life, people are better at things than others. Jedi are good at some things, but they really don't have the skills non-Jedi do, to generalize. This system they've set up would do that in spades as long as it's done right. One's power or usefulness is only determined by their actions, and with the proper situation's set up, every character will be useful.

[Judge Hades]

Jedis can overpower, force persuade, destroy anything that they come across.

[maia]

Eh, it just isn't true that the non-Jedi characters in KOTOR 1 were _all_ weaker than the Jedi. Canderous built up as a melee fighter is better in combat than the Jedi NPCs and Carth (also as melee build) and upgraded HK-47 hold their own better than, say, Jolee or Bastila. The problem was that they were _boring_ to use because you could only use the same couple of feats with them over and over. They got the job done, but in a very pedestrian way, the flipside being that if you gave them decent equipment, you didn't need to pay them attention in a fight. However, all of this can be changed with addition of more active- use feats, weapons quick slots, etc.

[Judge Hades]

I found Jolee and Juhani more effective in melee combat than Zaalbar, Carth, and Canderous combined. THey could use their force powers to immobilize the enemy then hackety slashety.

[nightcleaver]

Jedis can overpower, force persuade, destroy anything that they come across.

That's not technically true, especially considering that they can't - being human - do everything by themselves. They don't, "Force overpower" or "force destroy", and force persuade doesn't work most of the time - except on the "weaker minded", and a lot of people in the first game it didn't thusly work on.

 

Non Jedi could wear armor. That's a perfectly reasonable way to balance the game (adding stats to the armor), seeing that Jedi can't use their powers with armor on.

 

Also: you can give certain character's reflexes, coming back up after knockout, rocket launchers, sneaking, etc... all of those things are weaknesses in most Jedi.

[Judge Hades]

Sorry, but I do disagree. If you make a challenge for Jedis you will decimate the non-Jedis. If you make a challenge for non-Jedis it will be a cakewalk for the Jedis. Jedis are just that powerful and always will be.

[EnderAndrew]

I think having Heal made the Jedi far more powerful than Non-Jedi in and of itself. The rest was just gravy.

[kumquatq3]

In the first KotOR, yes.

[EnderAndrew]

Luke did all of that despite being a whiny chump. Wow.

[kumquatq3]

I gotta agree with Doomy (hades) on this jedi stuff, btw

[ShinIchiro]

I found Jolee and Juhani more effective in melee combat than Zaalbar, Carth, and Canderous combined.  THey could use their force powers to immobilize the enemy then hackety slashety.

Who uses carth in melee? Also, you must have been doing something different with Zaalbar. I equiped him with critical strike 3, two weapons, his ancestral sword thing, and he prettymuch had instant kills. I think canderous was bad period. Jolee was compotent but not good melee. Juhani was awesome though.

[EnderAndrew]

Zaalbar came with a custom Bowcaster, but I always thought he was more Melee oriented.

[ShinIchiro]

This isn't a jedi overpower problem, I think its a combat oriented problem. All jedi can be very combat oriented (they can all use very powerful sabers and all can have agressive force powers), while most other haracters (e.g. mission) are disadvantaged due to their lack of combat focus. The game is combat oriented and thus combat oriented characters profit (I think Carth was awesome...as powerful as a jedi when used as range combat, but he's a soldier).

[EnderAndrew]

In the early stages of the game, there weren't any great blasters. And when you got really powerful blasters, the Jedi had Force Powers. Thusly, I don't think Carth was all that powerful.

 

Immobilizing enemies is like having a bunch of extra attacks. It's very powerful. And the ability to heal yourself repeatedly is also a huge boost. The other characters often were more skill oriented, but skills were pretty useless.

[ShinIchiro]

THe jedi got two massive things free. They got force powers at not penalty and FPs. These are two seperate catagories the jedi have access to. Maybe the jedi should have more feat points/options/thingies, but they have to split their choices between force powers and regular feats. Just a suggesstion. Also, the FP system needs to be reworked a little. Jedi should get less. I mentioned this earlier, but in the early game fps were not abundent and that was good (while on taris with bastila), but later my soldier guardian wis 10 had enough fps for whatever I needed. That not only overpowered jedi but prettymuch made consulars useless.

[alanschu]

I had 460 fp with my consular last game, and there were still times I ran out of FP while on the star forge

 

I like to go crazy with the force wave

[ShinIchiro]

That's just scary.

[alanschu]

To be fair I did have plague, and since I was LS it was very expensive to use when I used it.

[EnderAndrew]

I pretty much used heal, and occassionally destroy droid.

 

Nothing else presented a challenge and warranted Force usage.

[ShinIchiro]

Heal when I needed, destroy droid whenever one came, and speed for convenience. I never ran low on force. I could use destroy droid as much as I wanted with my guardian (I did have something like a +8 to wis from equipment) and never run out pretty much.

[EnderAndrew]

I played a guardian and never worried about FP's, but I didn't use Force Powers much. I used Bastilla for Force Powers from time to time, and then realized it wasn't necessary. So I kept the armor on and sliced through anything that got in my way with relative ease.