EnderAndrew Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 Eh Americans...always bad-educated. Spellar says: poorly educated
alanschu Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Spellar says: poorly educated Spellmar says: spellmar
nightcleaver Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Though communism ends up in the hands of dictators, (people can't know/trust eachother or predict eachother's motives on such a large scale... thus we have systems to offset some of that, and communism tries to destroy those systems...corrupt as they can be and, often, are) it isn't equivalent to fascism. The "idea", pure and simple, is of absolute equality. This works on, say, a village (for a limited time) or a family(sibling and adults of the family) scale (in a non-disfunctional family), but it doesn't work on the much larger scale involved with everyday life. There are no checks and balances in communism; the checks and balances are SUPPOSED to be in the people. Thus, someone with a communist (unless you mean fascist) ideal isn't necessarily evil. The fundamental basis of communism is just to lay out what's wrong and what should be improved with government - and I have to say, the US form of government tried to do that very thing. Without, of course, losing sight of reality. A "Sith Commie" couldn't technically exist - unless, again, you mean "fascist". There are plenty of fascists that go by the name "communist," but they aren't true communists. No one can be a true commie, sure; but the Sith belief in a totally opposite philosophy, one of tyranny and leaving behind the weak every chance they have. In communism, the idea is to have everyone on the same level, one way or another - with no one being left behind, and in practice people being "Dragged down". At least, I'm sure they Sith would call it that. Well, regardless of if anyone was talking about this, I saw a chance to blab about something on a philosophical level that I found really interesting So there.
EnderAndrew Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 I don't think the Sith are facist or communist. They are certainly imperialist.
nightcleaver Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 No - fascists are a little nicer, but the absolute power thing is still there. I wouldn't trust it for their to be a Sith communist - it's not even a matter of realism.
alanschu Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 No - fascists are a little nicer, but the absolute power thing is still there. I wouldn't trust it for their to be a Sith communist - it's not even a matter of realism. I would tend to think Communists would be nicer than Fascists. A component of fascism is a clearcut heirarchy of individuals (particularly races), placing some people as the absolute superiors to others. Communism as an ideology is generally considered a utopia with everyone working for the collective good and perfect equality among everyone. Unfortunately, it cannot exist in reality since human beings are greedy. Fascism as an ideology tends to promote racial superiority and prejudice.
CastleBravo Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 No - fascists are a little nicer, but the absolute power thing is still there. I wouldn't trust it for their to be a Sith communist - it's not even a matter of realism. I would tend to think Communists would be nicer than Fascists. A component of fascism is a clearcut heirarchy of individuals (particularly races), placing some people as the absolute superiors to others. Communism as an ideology is generally considered a utopia with everyone working for the collective good and perfect equality among everyone. Unfortunately, it cannot exist in reality since human beings are greedy. Fascism as an ideology tends to promote racial superiority and prejudice. Really, the Sith don't quite fit the Nazi or Communist molds... not surprising, since the Sith are made up for a sci-fi movie. But consider this: Communists, while they always wind up enslaving and slaughtering people by the millions in real life (e.g. Stalin, Mao, Kim Il-Jong), claim to be trying to serve the collective good of everyone. Their ideology is based on bringing about a utopia of total equality, even if they wind up causing the opposite to happen in real life. The Sith make no such claims. Quite the opposite: Sith philosophy is based on "everyone for themselves." People are expected to join the Sith only because of their own selfish desires, not out of some altruistic ideal. If anything, the Sith are anti-Communists to the extreme: totally self-centered and individualistic. The Sith are more like the Nazis, in that they are motivated by a belief in their superiority and inherent right to rule by sheer power... the Nazis by racial superiority, the Sith by the superiority of the Dark Side. The Nazis in real life also tended to have an "everyone-for-themselves" streak a mile wide, with Hitler's underlings constantly jockying to get more power and wealth for themselves. He didnt "get Revan'ed" by, say, Goring, because he kept his underlings competing with each other instead of with him.
Nur Ab Sal Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Nazis and Sith may be similar by their ruthlessness but differences are too great. Sith have real mystic powers while nazis are band of frustrated unemployed males not force sensitive individuals. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
CastleBravo Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Nazis and Sith may be similar by their ruthlessness but differences are too great. Sith have real mystic powers while nazis are band of frustrated unemployed males not force sensitive individuals. Well, thanks for stating the blindingly obvious. That's why I said, "Really, the Sith don't quite fit the Nazi or Communist molds... not surprising, since the Sith are made up for a sci-fi movie." The fact that Stormtroopers are called "stormtroopers" should be a pretty good hint what Lucas was thinking about when he made Star Wars with its Evil Galactic Empire, though. And Darth Vader's (aka Dark Lord of the Sith) helmet is shaped like a German soldier's helmet circa 1939.
CastleBravo Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Anyway, this topic has drifted WAY off topic. BOTTOM LINE: Obsidian, please don't make the Sith a bunch of annoying weenies out to steal our lunch money while wearing gay ("not that there is anything wrong with that...") crushed gray velvet and naugahyde outfits.
DarthShad Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Anyway, this topic has drifted WAY off topic. BOTTOM LINE: Obsidian, please don't make the Sith a bunch of annoying weenies out to steal our lunch money while wearing gay ("not that there is anything wrong with that...") crushed gray velvet and naugahyde outfits. The Devs said that this will be fixed in KotOR 2.
CastleBravo Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Anyway, this topic has drifted WAY off topic. BOTTOM LINE:
DarthShad Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Anyway, this topic has drifted WAY off topic. BOTTOM LINE:
CastleBravo Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Anyway, this topic has drifted WAY off topic. BOTTOM LINE:
EnderAndrew Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 I'm sure guilty. On the topic of the Dark Side, the original trilogy, and the almighty Lord Vader set this precedent. We have a strong character who kills his underlings and uses fear and violence to achieve his goals. The Emperor was a minor character whose manipulative ways really only become clear in the hated prequels. Is it a surprise that Star Wars video game villians take suit? If the Dark Side is all about passion, then I don't expect you'll have a whole lot of cool, calculating, manipulative villians.
Indalecio Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Is it a surprise that Star Wars video game villians take suit? If the Dark Side is all about passion, then I don't expect you'll have a whole lot of cool, calculating, manipulative villians. I think the Sith work like your average Multi-Level Marketing Scheme. One guy on top, and a whole lot of chumps on the bottom with the notion that they might someday be the guy on top. Except, if they follow the Sith Philosophy, thats never going to happen. Following your passions leads is a wild goose chase. Sure it gives you momentary power, that runs dry soon enough. Those who figure this out, are usually the ones who become Sith Lords.
EnderAndrew Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 Maybe you're on to something there, and the Sith Code was created to keep the lackeys in their place.
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