Build and Mechanic Question (Cipher)

[Brainy]

Hello all ! 

Im a returning player. Well after 10 years tbh. I never player Poe1 or 2 completly through and after playing Avovwed and being dissapointed i thought i give Pillars a spin tis time for real. Starting with the First one. Im no newbie to CRPGS been mostly playing Pathfinder WOTR an Rogue Trader lately. Mostly on the hardest difficulties using my own builds.  

So the question. I started out a few times with POE1 yesterday trying different classes up to Level 4. Finding out what i wanna play. and it came down to Cipher and Priest for me. So i decided Cipher.  

 

Now after reading the various Stats and Attributes i came up with this. I m trying to achieve a range Cipher Not sure if i need more Might or Dex ? Depends on Weapon choice ? like Bows more Dex? Guns and Crossbows more might ? 

Cipher/Hearth Orlan 

Might : 14

Con : 8

Dex : 14

Per :Base 17 + 2 Hearth Orlan? = 19

Int : Base 18 +1 Old Vailia =19

Resolve : 4

Things like Thisper of Treason, Shock, Mental Binding - Talent stuff like Marksman, Gunner ect. 

So yeah does this look solid ? Im probably starting out on Standart Difficulty or maybe one above that Cipher seems kinda broken with all the CC Support they can give. 

 

[Boeroer]

Hi and welcome!

3 hours ago, Brainy said:

Now after reading the various Stats and Attributes i came up with this. I m trying to achieve a range Cipher Not sure if i need more Might or Dex ? Depends on Weapon choice ? like Bows more Dex? Guns and Crossbows more might?

MIG and DEX do the same things for bows or guns: more dmg per hit or faster hits. Because DEX - unlike other general speed bonuses - also does shorten reloading time (as well as recovery time).
MIG has an additive effect, DEX has a multiplicative effect on dps. Usually DEX is better BUT if you don't do enough dmg per hit you will struggle against enemies with thick(er) armor.

Since reloading weapons usually have the higher base damage it's actually a bit better to invest in DEX than in MIG - and for bows it's the other way round. But on the other hand: if you concentrate on shooting the "softer" enemies in combat anyways (casters of example) then high DEX/not so high MIG on a bow is still great.

Having both reasonably high is best, like you did below.  

3 hours ago, Brainy said:

Might : 14

Con : 8

Dex : 14

Per :Base 17 + 2 Hearth Orlan? = 19

Int : Base 18 +1 Old Vailia =19

Resolve : 4

Yes, that will totally work. I personally would go for a bit more DEX (17) and take those points from PER (16), but that's not making a big difference. 

3 hours ago, Brainy said:

Things like Thisper of Treason, Shock, Mental Binding - Talent stuff like Marksman, Gunner ect. 

Whisper of Treason is very impactful - but you have to get relatively close. In general Mind Control (confuse, charm, dominate) is the most impactful stuff a Cipher can do. What's also very good is Amplified Wave. Borrowed Instincts and Time Parasite are also very good.

"Marksman" is good. Weapon Focus, too. Over the course of the game imo the best ranged weapon for a Cipher is the warbow. But the differences in "power" are almost negligible. It's more important imo what feels cool (and is still valid and good).

You only need "Gunner" when you use a reloading weapon (obviously) - but then it's very good. Just note: Time Parasite is a really good dps tool because it allows a Cipher to shoot much faster with bows, but it doesn't do anything for reloading time, only for recovery time. If you do not plan to pick up Time Parasite but prefer to cast CC stuff instead (which is a totally valid approach) then guns/crossbow types for Ciphers are fine. A single shot grants a nice bunch of focus.

Usually not recommended often, but don't dismiss arbalests: they have a feature that knocks enemies prone on crit - and that can be very helpful in addition to the damage they cause. They also share the Weapon Focus with arquebuses, so you can always switch between those (if you find let's say a better quality arquebus than your current arbalest for example). There's also a superearly unique arbalest in the game.  

I do not recommend blunderbusses by the way. On paper they do a lot of damage per shot - but they are really bad against foes with thick armor. And that means that your cipher will really struggle against most bosses and other tough enemies. And that can be frustrating.

Other talents you might want to have:

• Weapon Focus (best impact if it's picked up asap in the early game)
• Outlander's Frenzy (instead of Time Parasite, only bows)
• Heart of the Storm (if you pick up the soulbound bow Stormcaller, not before)
• Shot on the Run (with additional recovery bonuses/speed the recovery when running is actually shorter than when standing, only bows)
• Arms Bearer & Quick Switch (you can cycle through 3 gun sets at the start of combat and shoot 3 times in quick succession and thus gain a ton of focus, only guns/crossbows)
• Apprentice's Sneak Attack (always useful for a Cipher who can apply afflictions to enemies easily himself)

Cheers!

[Brainy]

Wow man thank you ! That was super helpful and sorry for all the spell mistakes. I was looking for the edit button but could not find it. I take your advice to heart ! And thanks fo all the great info about the skills. 

Glad i understood the basics as it seems makes me doubt my choices less. 

I thought i need super high Perception for ACC to always hit stuf otherwise no focus. But i went a bit far. Gonna correct that. Cant wait to switch 3 Different gun sets and blast hard  

Good to know that Dex also helps with reload speed was not sure about it. I went with guns using the Arquebus from Kana then switched to the  Dissapointer Pistol i found. +Cheap Enchant. Then switchtched that with a Pistol found in the castle putting a Fine enchantment on it. So ofc i picked gunner early. Guns are so cool in this game cant wait to get into Deadfire. 

Also Priests seem to be crazy good. So Kana as Off Tank is probably possible - gave him Sword and Shield + the skill and Durance is a bit behind with the Arquebus but mostly buffing the group winning fights. 

Anyway thanks for the massive help and yeah i keep trying different things. Only Lvl 5 now but Pillarsis a stellar game i love it already.

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Brainy said:

Good to know that Dex also helps with reload speed was not sure about it. I went with guns using the Arquebus from Kana then switched to the  Dissapointer Pistol i found. +Cheap Enchant. Then switchtched that with a Pistol found in the castle putting a Fine enchantment on it. So ofc i picked gunner early. Guns are so cool in this game cant wait to get into Deadfire.

I also think using guns is fun in PoE and Deadfire.

2 hours ago, Brainy said:

Also Priests seem to be crazy good.

Indeed. Most impactful class in PoE imo.

[Boeroer]

PS:
 

2 hours ago, Brainy said:

I was looking for the edit button but could not find it.

That only becomes available once you are out of the "probation period" that all new forums users have to go through (anti-spam/anti-bot measure). During that phase, every post of you has to be vetted by a moderator to make sure it's okay. And you cannot edit posts during that phase because a new user could write something harmless, the post gets vetted an then that user could come back and edit the harmless post, changing it in into something nasty.

I believe this phase ends after 5 vetted posts. So just keep writing - then you can edit your posts soon.  

[Brainy]

Alright thank you ! 

And yeah GUNS its just feels soooo damn good hearing the shot, sound from the inpact it might not be most optimized but fun is out this world on this game. 

Might i bother you some more then ?  

So Resolve how much is a good amount for a Tank/DD ? I see it gives flat Deflection Bonus but also Concentration and Will - is every interaction interuptable ? Abilities and Cast sure i know but normal attacks aswell ? 

[Chaospread]

12 hours ago, Brainy said:

So Resolve how much is a good amount for a Tank/DD ? I see it gives flat Deflection Bonus but also Concentration and Will - is every interaction interuptable ? Abilities and Cast sure i know but normal attacks aswell ?

Hi, yes, also attack action is interruptible  
Resolve should be very high for the main tank, also MAX, but it depends also by the tank's class, the formation etc... anyway having high RES is always good.
Other talents I can advice are: Penetrating Shot and those related to focus: Biting Whip, Draining Whip and (less) Greater Focus.

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Indeed. Most impactful class in PoE imo.

I agree, maybe the best class for/in a party, the powerful (perhaps a little bit below Wiz) in SOLO, thinking about later game (imho).

[Boeroer]

As @Chaospread said: the more Resolve the better on a tank.

I mean that's true for all attributes of course because all defenses have increasing returns and all attributes contribute to a defense value, but Deflection is the one that gets attacked the most and is only influenced by Resolve. High Will is also not bad on a tank because it's really bad if your tank gets flipped by mind control (although you should probably prevent that with a Prayer from the Priest in the first place).  

Edited 14 hours ago by Boeroer