Help Me Build My Party (Round 2)

[Chaospread]

Troubadour is the best subclass for chanter, -50% phrase duration makes invocation casted pretty earlier. A tank/damage dealer chanter could be a Skald, but it is not your case. If you don't wanna experiment anything, go for Troubadour.
I'm playing a Ghost Heart now and Arcane Archer is totally another subclass, and mine is a MC but I think Stunning Shots is a great passive, and you could play around Distraction Training and Vengeful Grief a little maybe.
For actives ones, Shadowed Hunters can be used somehow almost as cheese, and other can be managed to build interesting characters, such as Whirling Strikes and Bonded Fury.

Others are interesting but too much expensive and choosing lesser level abilities is better.
But a SC Arcan Archer has also the advantage to cast imbue with large power level, it is very good. I should be curious how a imbue: death ring spell can be with great ranger accuracy and so many power levels

[Boeroer]

Troubadour is the best pick for a support Chanter. With only 20 INT you can have 100% overlap of two chants (like Ancient Memory + Mercy and Kindness) or switch to invocation mode (Brisk Recitation) if you feel you need that - or for a lot of Many Lives skeletons. 

Livegiver/Troubadour is a good healer, especially once you combine Mercy and Kindness with the Druid's healing spells such as Moonwell etc. +7 Power level while shifted (or +4 not shifted with Spine of Thicket Green or Xoti's Lantern) in combination with Physiker's Belt and Practiced Healer has a massive impact on the potency of healing. 

Normally Druid summons aren't that great, but the Ancient's Sporelings are very good. In combination with Wild Growth (Robust inspiration on the Sporelings as long as they exist, no duration) they become excellent. Their duration scales very well because it has a rather long base and it's only PL1.

An Ancient/Chanter can also put Wild Growth on other summons like drakes, oozes or the bigger spores.

If you have a brilliant priest in the party you can prolong the summons' duration with Salvation of Time, too. Theoretically you can create endless summons who are Robust forever. 

---

IF one has a summon-heavy party then also a SC Kind Wayfarer is a great spot- and AoE healer with potentially unlimited Zeal in the late game (if summons die he gets +2 Zeal from Divine Retribution). He can use White Flames + Divine Immolation endlessly. The White Flames heal his self damage easily while Divine Immolation AND White Flames heal his surroundings big time. Cherry on top: deals great damage that way, too. Perfect if your backline gets swarmed. I love this guy with dual pistols. Imo it's the best weapon pick for such a specialized Kind Wayfarer. Very fast White Flames, good range, cancelable reloading (great reactivity) great unique pieces. 

If you want to profit from Divine Retribution twice per summon you can kill skeletons yourself with Grave Calling (turning then into imps) or any summon with Essence Interrupter (turning into whatever). When the skeleton/first summon dies: Paladin +2 Zeal. When the imp/other summon dies: again +2 Zeal. But that usually isn't necessary if you use Many Lives and/or Ancient Brittle Bones because you'll have more Zeal that you can spend. 

Edited October 30 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

13 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

I should be curious how a imbue: death ring spell can be with great ranger accuracy and so many power levels

Imbue: Death with Watershaper's Focus (Ondra's Wrath) or Fire in the Hole (Chain Shot) + Driving Flight is pretty epic. Ultra high ACC also for the Death Rings with maxed Arcana. 3 procs of Death Ring and also the chance to proc Ondra's Wrath (WS's Focus) in combo with the weapons' own AoE. And also: everything there's foe-only which is very nice. For non-imbue shots I would switch to either Essence Interrupter or Frostseeker (no ACC penalty for Arcane Archer). Or Spearcaster (gains way more ACC from Arcana than you lose by the Arcane Archer penalty). 

Edited October 30 by Boeroer

[Yosharian]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Imbue: Death with Watershaper's Focus (Ondra's Wrath) or Fire in the Hole (Chain Shot) + Driving Flight is pretty epic. Ultra high ACC also for the Death Rings with maxed Arcana. 3 procs of Death Ring and also the chance to proc Ondra's Wrath in combo with the weapons' own AoE. And also: everything there's foe-only which is very nice. For non-imbue shots I would switch to either Essence Interrupter or Frostseeker (no ACC penalty for Arcane Archer). 

I don't understand any of this lol

[Yosharian]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Imbue: Death with Watershaper's Focus (Ondra's Wrath) or Fire in the Hole (Chain Shot) + Driving Flight is pretty epic. Ultra high ACC also for the Death Rings with maxed Arcana. 3 procs of Death Ring and also the chance to proc Ondra's Wrath (WS's Focus) in combo with the weapons' own AoE. And also: everything there's foe-only which is very nice. For non-imbue shots I would switch to either Essence Interrupter or Frostseeker (no ACC penalty for Arcane Archer). Or Spearcaster (gains way more ACC from Arcana than you lose by the Arcane Archer penalty). 

Ahh I see you mean Frostseeker/Essence Interrupter are considered 'Imbued attacks' by the game?  Umm why though?

[Chaospread]

1 hour ago, Yosharian said:

Ahh I see you mean Frostseeker/Essence Interrupter are considered 'Imbued attacks' by the game?  Umm why though?

They are frost / shock / elemental attacks, so no penalties

[Yosharian]

I see. Neat

[Yosharian]

I'm toying with the idea of using a Nature Godlike merc for my Theurge (Druid/Chanter).  However, this class doesn't have an easy way to produce an Inspiration to trigger the Godlike ability, other than throwing down a couple of specific spells/invocations - which is fine, but I was wondering if there's an item that I could use that would give me a long-lasting Inspiration?  I know about Least Unstable Coil and that's fine for lategame, but I was looking for something else.  Anyone got any ideas?

[Boeroer]

8 hours ago, Yosharian said:

I don't understand any of this lol

Arcane Archer's imbue shots trigger the spell effect with every projectile impact. So if a weapon has two bounces it has 3 impacts: initial hit, first bounce, second bounce. Watershaper's Focus and Fire in the Hole both can have a build-in bounce and Driving Flight adds a second one.

So Imbue: Death will trigger a Death Ring with every bounce: boom, boom, boom. The Death Rings will also have bonus accuracy from Arcana (o much higer accthan a wiazrd would have when he would cast this spell). 

On top every bounce will also proc the AoE of the weapon. And in case of Watershaper's Focus you can also trigger Ondra's Wrath (also AoE dmg).

So combined a single Imbue: Death shot with Watershaper's Focus will do:

• 3* single target rod dmg (bounces get a but less dmg)
• 3* AoE Death Ring damage
• 3*AoE rod's Blast damage
• 0-3*Ondra's Wrath damage. 

With Fire in the Hole is basically the same but without Ondra's Wrath but with 1*Powder Burns if you wish. 

7 hours ago, Yosharian said:

Ahh I see you mean Frostseeker/Essence Interrupter are considered 'Imbued attacks' by the game?  Umm why though?

Arcane Archer gets no penalties for imbue OR elemental attaks. Frosteeker carries the frost keyword and Essence Interrupter the shock keyword. I believe Dragon's Dowry has the fire keyword so that might work as well. I personally prefer Spearcaster. overall best ACC - and the modal of Arbalests is just great in general. 

[Boeroer]

22 minutes ago, Yosharian said:

I'm toying with the idea of using a Nature Godlike merc for my Theurge (Druid/Chanter).  However, this class doesn't have an easy way to produce an Inspiration to trigger the Godlike ability, other than throwing down a couple of specific spells/invocations - which is fine, but I was wondering if there's an item that I could use that would give me a long-lasting Inspiration?  I know about Least Unstable Coil and that's fine for lategame, but I was looking for something else.  Anyone got any ideas?

Nature's Balm ist good. With a Lifegiver (bonus PL) and decent INT (should aim for 20 anyway for the Chanter) the duration of the Robust inspiration increases quite a bit - and you want to cast it early in most fights anyway I guess.

Lover's Embrace has an enchantment that eventually gives you Frenzy on hit. It works with spell-hits and chant-hits, too. If you use a pulsing spell (Tanglefoot or whatever) or/and an offensive chant the chance is high to become frenzied at some point. This Frenzy stacks with all other speed buffs by the way (like Cat Flurry) because it's from a weapon. Obviously you cannot trigger it while shifted though (no Dagger in hand then). It has no per-encounter limit. Frenzy is Strong + Fit. It should trigger Wellspring of Life.

I think I would keep the Spine of Thicket Green and stick to Nature's Balm though.   

Edited Wednesday at 07:15 PM by Boeroer

[Yosharian]

25 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Nature's Balm ist good. With a Lifegiver (bonus PL) and decent INT (should aim for 20 anyway for the Chanter) the duration of the Robust inspiration increases quite a bit - and you want to cast it early in most fights anyway I guess.

Lover's Embrace has an enchantment that eventually gives you Frenzy on hit. It works with spell-hits and chant-hits, too. If you use a pulsing spell (Tanglefoot or whatever) or/and an offensive chant the chance is high to become frenzied at some point. This Frenzy stacks with all other speed buffs by the way (like Cat Flurry) because it's from a weapon. Obviously you cannot trigger it while shifted though (no Dagger in hand then). It has no per-encounter limit. Frenzy is Strong + Fit. It should trigger Wellspring of Life.

I think I would keep the Spine of Thicket Green and stick to Nature's Balm though.   

I'll probably just use the Invocation that grants all those inspirations to the team. Thanks though. 

That Ondras Wrath thing seems insane!

[Yosharian]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

 

Any ideas on which pet to pick? Not sure what to go for

[Chaospread]

I change pet depending on the encounter. Default pet could be one that give you int, dex and maybe stride or healing effect, like Bubble, Cajux, Freja, Lil'Babs.
Baby boar is also good but you can achieve same effect with personal abilities.
You have many ranged characters, so also pets which improve ranged attacks are good: Harley above all, Retina, Sky Dragon wurm if you manage to get it, Atlas, Bernhard...
But many are good with you party, you can also choose to increase area of effect, accuracy... I'd try many of them and then switch to the best who make me feel OK.

[Yosharian]

18 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

I change pet depending on the encounter. Default pet could be one that give you int, dex and maybe stride or healing effect, like Bubble, Cajux, Freja, Lil'Babs.
Baby boar is also good but you can achieve same effect with personal abilities.
You have many ranged characters, so also pets which improve ranged attacks are good: Harley above all, Retina, Sky Dragon wurm if you manage to get it, Atlas, Bernhard...
But many are good with you party, you can also choose to increase area of effect, accuracy... I'd try many of them and then switch to the best who make me feel OK.

Sorry I meant Ranger animal companion lol

[Chaospread]

Ok, usually best companion is boar because it auto heal himself and if i remember right it do raw damage over time and this could trigger interesting synergies, but I like (and I'm current playing with it) bear for it good armor rating and I use it as a tank. But ususally I go for a rpg companion, the best that fits my PG in terms of self story

[Boeroer]

Imo the best overall companion is the Bear. It has +2 AR which is great, especially if you pair it with Resilient Companion (another +2 AR) and at the same time is among the best damage dealers (behind Wolf and Lion only). It has a large selection circle which means it will occupy more space than a character. This can be beneficial (block enemies' paths) but also detrimental (cannot navigate well in tight spaces).

Boar has the endless regeneration (tankyness comparable to Bear's +2 AR I'd say) but does pretty low damage. It has a normal selection circle (like any party member). It does not do raw DoT. That's the Spiritshift Boar form (Druid).

You can get detailed info here with @thelee's Game FAQ guide (section about animal companions a bit further down):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/ranger

 

 

 

[thelee]

i'm actually partial to antelope for PotD. AR boost is kinda hard to see gains from until scaling from mid-late game, even with resilient companion, bc it's such an arms race against enemy PEN. Meanwhile +10 to all defenses helps all the time, even if subtly. But large size on Bear is pretty handy when you need a body to do some body-blocking (may be dependant on your willingness to micromanage though).

[Chaospread]

I'm sorry, I tought boar had dot damage

Antelope isn't +7 all defenses? +10 it's huge!

Is health the same for all companions? I'm late game (missing only megabosses) and my bear last so long. It's true +4 AR late game is not so great, but you can buff it with other abilities, spell and so on, I find that bear is a hard tank.

Wolf and lion can come in hand when you need damage dealer companion, but in Solo a tank is better and in a party you can do without them.

Worst probably is stag.

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, thelee said:

i'm actually partial to antelope for PotD. AR boost is kinda hard to see gains from until scaling from mid-late game, even with resilient companion, bc it's such an arms race against enemy PEN. Meanwhile +10 to all defenses helps all the time, even if subtly. But large size on Bear is pretty handy when you need a body to do some body-blocking (may be dependant on your willingness to micromanage though).

The defense bonus of the Antelope is okay, but it does pretty awful dmg unfortunately. Also its low RES (9) means that the antelope doesn't have +10 deflection compared to other ACs. +9 compared to Bear (RES 10) and only +4 compared to Boar (RES 15). Its very strong defense is Reflex - because it has the stats that support it.
With the +10 its fortitude is even below the Bear's and Boar's because only 20 MIG+CON (+0 fortitude) compared to 27 for Boar and Bear (+14 fortitude) . I don't value Reflex higher as the defenses. I think it's the least important one overall.

The Bear has the best overall package imo. Also... doesn't the bear get +2 AR starting bonus? The Game FAQ guide says +1. My game however says +2. I don't think this is done by a mod:

@thelee is the guide wrong/outdated in that regard maybe?
13 stackable AR at lvl 20 isn't that bad for an AC, isn't it? I can add a bit with aura or the occasional special AR spell (Form of the Delemgan or whatnot). My main tank usually only has 13 (but of course much better defenses to pair with that 13 AR). Stil... 

If I don't need to worry about the survival part as much (for example if I have unlimited revives from a Chanter - ACs don't suffer injuries) then I'd pick Lion. The added action speed gives a bit more reactivity with Takedown and the like - and it has comparable dps to a Wolf while it has the large size.

I personally would consider Boar or Antelope for thematic reasons mostly (like if I played a Ranger/Druid with Spritishift Boar). 

But at the end of the day it doesn't really make a huge difference. 

 

Edited Friday at 02:51 PM by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Chaospread said:

I'm sorry, I tought boar had dot damage

Antelope isn't +7 all defenses? +10 it's huge!

Is health the same for all companions? I'm late game (missing only megabosses) and my bear last so long. It's true +4 AR late game is not so great, but you can buff it with other abilities, spell and so on, I find that bear is a hard tank.

Wolf and lion can come in hand when you need damage dealer companion, but in Solo a tank is better and in a party you can do without them.

Worst probably is stag.

The Antelope gets +10 to all. But it has pretty bad stat distribution for the most important defenses (I think) so its defenses don't end up where I personally wanted them to be. It has very high reflex but only slightly better deflection than the Boar.

Base health is the same for all ACs (base 36, +12 per level), but it gets modified by CON of course. Boar has the best CON (16), giving him +30% health. Antelope +0%, Bear +10%.

Deer/Stag has a fairly balanced stat spread. The "carnage" on crit isn't that useful unfortunately. The base damage of ACs is low and since carnage is calculated with base dmg it does so puny dmg numbers it's best not to talk about them...  Would have been a lot different if the base damage of ACs scaled like it used to in PoE. In Deadfire the dmg scales only additively like any scaling weapon does (see summoned weapons).  

 

Edited Friday at 02:35 PM by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

52 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

But at the end of the day it doesn't really make a huge difference. 

This one its the ultimate true .
Anyway My bear has +2 AR from the start, in what FAQ do you see +1? I always remember to see +2...
Reflex maybe is the worst defense, sometimes it is a battle between reflex and will I say, but a charmed companion usually is a very bad issue so reflex is actually the worst.
Eventually then I took the best option with a bear, ok, you can talk about stats etc. but the circle size can make the difference in this case (sorry for the double meaning ).

[Boeroer]

5 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

This one its the ultimate true .
Anyway My bear has +2 AR from the start, in what FAQ do you see +1? I always remember to see +2...
Reflex maybe is the worst defense, sometimes it is a battle between reflex and will I say, but a charmed companion usually is a very bad issue so reflex is actually the worst.
Eventually then I took the best option with a bear, ok, you can talk about stats etc. but the circle size can make the difference in this case (sorry for the double meaning ).

The one I liked to above from @thelee:
 

 

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You can get detailed info here with @thelee's Game FAQ guide (section about animal companions a bit further down):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/ranger

 

[Chaospread]

I think they are wrong and/or outdated. Currently is +2, when i have time I can post a screenshot too.

[thelee]

On 11/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, Boeroer said:

 

@thelee is the guide wrong/outdated in that regard maybe?

i don't doubt it might be outdated (that section probably hasn't been touched since 1.x), i'll add it to my queue for next update.

 

On 11/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, Boeroer said:

The defense bonus of the Antelope is okay, but it does pretty awful dmg unfortunately

yeah, though for me the damage of the animal companion isn't very important. i mean, it's important for ranger's overall dps in general, but overall i get more value for most situations just as a source of engagement (with protective companion), so survivability is more important to me, unless i'm ghost heart.

On 11/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, Boeroer said:

13 stackable AR at lvl 20 isn't that bad for an AC, isn't it?

yeah it's not bad, that's why i specified it's better mid-late game when you get some scaling. IME AR is just really hard to make relevant in the early to early-mid game in PotD, which is also the hardest part of the game. IIRC a bear companion will have 8 AR at game start (5 + 2 bonus + 1 default fine bonus). Against even a lower-pen attack (like 6 PEN) thanks to PotD scaling you actually get 0 survivability bonus compared to a non-bear (thanks to the +2 PEN from difficulty).  it'll protect you a bit from overpenetration (esp crits) but not by much. and then against harder enemies, forget about it, even with zealous endurance or a tier 2 constitution inspiration you may still get 0 DR. it's only really as you keep scaling up and enemies start capping their scaling (or vs spell-based-scaling scaling up too slowly) and/or you get tons more reliable sources of AR boosts or PEN debuffs that it really helps alot.

(edit: same goes for players, really. even when you first get heavy armor it's underwhelming the protection versus the cost because of how asymmetrically weak heavy armor weaknesses are. in terms of early armor, it's the exceptional medium armor you can steal from dark cupboard that imo starts having a real impact on survivability and almost exclusively because it covers its weaknesses better than heavier armor)

Edited 21 hours ago by thelee

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, thelee said:

yeah, though for me the damage of the animal companion isn't very important. i mean, it's important for ranger's overall dps in general, but overall i get more value for most situations just as a source of engagement (with protective companion), so survivability is more important to me, unless i'm ghost heart.

I understand - but even when it's all about survivability I'd still not pick Antelope - but Boar. Defenses comparison (incl. Antelope's +10 to all defenses bonus):

• Deflection
  • Bear: +0
  • Boar: +5
  • Antelope: +9
• Fortitude
  • Bear: +14
  • Boar: +14
  • Antelope: +10
• Reflex
  • Bear: +4
  • Boar: -4
  • Antelope: +28
• Will
  • Bear: -10
  • Boar: +0
  • Antelope: -2

And now the boar has endless regeneration on top. Imo that's the better package in terms of survivability, especially in the early game.

Of course the Antelope has higher combined defenses than the Boar, but it pumps it all into one crazy Reflex defense - which is not so great for overall survivability imo.

I can see one case though where this focus on Reflex might be great: If I'd want to build an Animal Companion who does not need to worry about friendly fire Reflex spells too much (a Wizard's Fireballs for example), the Antelope + Defensive/Strengthened Bond might be my pick. Should add up to ~123 stackable Reflex at lvl 20 if I'm not mistaken. 

16 hours ago, thelee said:

yeah it's not bad, that's why i specified it's better mid-late game when you get some scaling. IME AR is just really hard to make relevant in the early to early-mid game in PotD, which is also the hardest part of the game. IIRC a bear companion will have 8 AR at game start (5 + 2 bonus + 1 default fine bonus). Against even a lower-pen attack (like 6 PEN) thanks to PotD scaling you actually get 0 survivability bonus compared to a non-bear (thanks to the +2 PEN from difficulty).  it'll protect you a bit from overpenetration (esp crits) but not by much. and then against harder enemies, forget about it, even with zealous endurance or a tier 2 constitution inspiration you may still get 0 DR. it's only really as you keep scaling up and enemies start capping their scaling (or vs spell-based-scaling scaling up too slowly) and/or you get tons more reliable sources of AR boosts or PEN debuffs that it really helps alot.

I don't know. I picked bears for survivability in combo with Stalkers rel. often - and it worked quite well imo.
But ofc. then the Bear then starts with an additional +1 AR because of the Stalker passive. With Resiliant Companion (taken right away) he will start with very decent AR (11 believe) and he feels quite sturdy - compared to a Wolf at least (which is my second favorite AC). 

Hm... now I wonder if I should try to build a Stalker/something tank + Bear AC. With Shining Bulwark shield (+1 AR for the Bear), maybe Furrante's Breastplate (-10% dmg received for the Bear)...
What second class? Chanter (healing + dmg shield chant - bonuses would also work for summons)? Cipher (Pain Block +2 AR)? Shieldbearer (Exalted Endurace +1 AR etc.)? Ancient (2 Sporelings+Wild Growth AND 1 Bear + Nature's Balm's +2 AR)? Beastmaster tank sounds pretty nice for a change. Shining Bulwark doesn't fit the theme though.    

Edit: Argh, Nature's Balm and Wild Growth are on the same spell level. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Boeroer