Help Me Build My Party (Round 2)

[Yosharian]

Hello, I am trying to build a second party for my Deadfire guide (LINK), my first party was built for Veteran:

1. Watcher Psyblade (Tactician/Beguiler) - striker/disabler
2. Serafen Swashbuckler (Unbroken / Trickster) - tanky riposter
3. Rekke Templar (Priest of Wael / Goldpact Knight) - tanky healer
4. Tekehu Ascetic (Helwalker / Watershaper) - glass cannon nuker (he died a lot lol)
5. Mercenary Shepherd (Ghostheart / Goldpact Knight) - ranged striker/healer

It was fun but I'm wanting to do something a bit different for my next run which will be POTD using Community Patch (+Extra addon) and Elric's Balance Polishing mod (LINK).  I'm using some of @Boeroer's builds as a starting point but adapting them a bit maybe.  Using Unity Console to change companion classes obviously.

1. Watcher single-class Corpse Eater - tanky striker, especially focusing on killing squishy casters etc
2. Rekke? single-class Wizard - not sure how to build this yet but I know I want a pure Wizard
3. Serafen Psion/Troubadour - pure caster build (based on Ceaseless Siren)
4. Fassina single-class or multi-class (?) Spearcaster Arcane Archer (based on Pindown Poet)
5. Maia single-class or multi-class (?) Gunhawk, not sure what to do with this yet, just want to use guns with Maia cos it's going to be an RDC run

The way I visualise this party working is that the watcher barb and mass summons from the chanter(s) form a screen of meat shields to allow the casters/ranged strikers to attack with impunity.  The ranger pets are there as a back-up plan if enemies break into the back line.

So I have some concept for what the party looks like but I'm a bit rough on some of the details and would really appreciate some suggestions.  @thelee if you have the time to take a look I would appreciate it.   I'm open to suggestions outside of what I wrote (for example changing the barb to a multi-class) if anyone has a particular idea.

Edited October 28 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

Hi, why not a Mage Slayer instead of a Corpse Eater? He'd fit better with your intentions. Barbs are great with multiclass, I like them with Priest (I've a build exactly with a Corpse Eater and a Priest of Berath), but also with Monk they are suitable as tank / single enemy killer.

2. Rekke can't be a chanter... maybe you mean Konstanten or Tekehu; better the first as a chanter, I think.

4. I think Fassina wizard subclass is not so amazing, usually she is a good Sorcerer and maybe a nice Loremaster but I don't know whether she can fit @Boeroer build without the ranger "part"

5. I like Maia as pure Ranger but I guess she can do her best as Scout, maybe see other opinions on that, I don't play with companios usually

[Yosharian]

12 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

Hi, why not a Mage Slayer instead of a Corpse Eater? He'd fit better with your intentions. Barbs are great with multiclass, I like them with Priest (I've a build exactly with a Corpse Eater and a Priest of Berath), but also with Monk they are suitable as tank / single enemy killer.

2. Rekke can't be a chanter... maybe you mean Konstanten or Tekehu; better the first as a chanter, I think.

4. I think Fassina wizard subclass is not so amazing, usually she is a good Sorcerer and maybe a nice Loremaster but I don't know whether she can fit @Boeroer build without the ranger "part"

5. I like Maia as pure Ranger but I guess she can do her best as Scout, maybe see other opinions on that, I don't play with companios usually

1) I wanted to try a pure Barb to see what the high level abilities are like, they seem quite interesting.  Corpse Eater gets some very nice buffs in Elrics mod

2) as I said in the post I'm using Unity Console, I changed that build to Wizard anyway

4) again, Unity Console

5) what do you find useful in pure Ranger? Seems underwhelming 

Edited October 28 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

Sorry, I missed the unity console part.

1) Pure barb is one of the little classes that has good high levels abilities, so is good going with single class barb.

2) Rekke can be build as a martial wizard caster, fits well with his background, so a plain simple single class wizard with the right grimoires.

4) Arcan Archer is nice and fun, but in this way you have two ranged characters and two rangers. Feasible, but this slot can be fit better with a healer / supporter / buffer, can't it?
5) I haven't said "useful", but that I like Maia as pure Ranger. Anyway some actives and passives of 8 and 9 levels are interesting and can be funny to use, maybe better again with Elric's mod.
And finally, Ranger in my opinion is a underrated class.

[Yosharian]

Hmm. It's kinda annoying cos I want to take Maia but I don't really want a second ranger to be honest

Not sure if she'll break if I remove her bird

Edited October 28 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

If you wanna mod her and not having a ranger you can go with a monk/rogue (or only monk) with a "Long Pain" build, or make her the healer / supporter.
If removing the bird break the game and you don't want the second ranger, you have to drop the ranger part from Fassina... or try a ranger/monk with Long Pain... it could be interesting and I don't know whether there is such build documented

[thelee]

 

On 10/26/2024 at 6:59 PM, Yosharian said:

1. Watcher single-class Corpse Eater - tanky striker, especially focusing on killing squishy casters etc

echoing Chaospread, honestly i'm super sour on corpse-eater for SC barb. Best part of SC barb is getting high level shout abilities, and corpse eater makes it 100% more expensive. if you're set on corpse-eater i'd multiclass it (so the +1 rage cost hurts overall less) and if you're set on SC barb i'd choose something else.

[Yosharian]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

 

echoing Chaospread, honestly i'm super sour on corpse-eater for SC barb. Best part of SC barb is getting high level shout abilities, and corpse eater makes it 100% more expensive. if you're set on corpse-eater i'd multiclass it (so the +1 rage cost hurts overall less) and if you're set on SC barb i'd choose something else.

Even if its Elric's version?  Hmm.

What other subclass would you recommend? I looked at Fury Shaper but it just looks weird.

[Boeroer]

SC Furyshaper is very good. The Blood Wards siphons health from ANY damage that a party member who's standing in the ward's AoE causes. That includes DoTs from Battle Axes, Gouging Strike, Plague of Insects and whatnot. Those normally don't work with health draining (like Chanter's "Old Siec" phrase).

ANd it works for every party member in the AoE. So if you have somebody who's dealing a lot of damage you don't need to bother healing them. They usually heal themselves pretty easily.

The Furyshaper himself can for example use Battle Axe + Heart of Fury and Barbaric Retaliation: summon a Blood Ward near the place you want to go, jump into the fray, trigger HoF and distribute Bleeding Cuts all over the place which will continue to draw health - and become pretty tanky that way although getting hit a lot.

Or if you stay at a distance and summon the ward and then "shoot" enemies with Barbaric Roar you will gain a ton of health if you hit enough enemies because the shout does so much damage.

If you fear the wards may get destroyed quickly: you can withdraw the wards with a Priest. They will become untouchable but will still work fine for you and your party.

The Fear Ward is very good if you have somebody with a club (+modal) and maybe a Waizrd with Miasma of Dull-Mindedness in the party. The ward's ACC is pretty low - but terrify is a very strong affliction. If you can make sure enemies' will is low it will be devastating.

Imo it's the best Barb subclass besides Berserker.

And Corpse Eater unfortunately is the weakest because +1 Rage is devastaningly bad for the cheap 1-Rage abilities such as Frenzy, Shouts and Wild Sprint. In addition to that Barbaric Smash still only refunds 2 points on kill but costs 3: also bad.

But I do not know the changes the Polishing mod does. I'm sure it makes it better. 

---

Mage Slayer with Effort (enchantment Hemorrhaging) can apply the Mage Slayer's spell disruption with his shouts (!). The great sword's enchantment also procs off of shout- and spell-crits and so on - and it counts as melee attack. So you can shout a Driving Roar and drop enemies and also apply Blood Frenzy's DoT or Spirit Frenzy's Stagger + Effort's Hemorrhaging (hobble or sicken) + Spell Disruption. If you stack 4 spell disruptions the enemy cannot cast anything anymore. 

Mage Slayer can also apply spell disruption with Frostseeker. It procs a melee helper attack then one of the projectiles crits. This melee helper procs the frost AoE. It counts as melee weapon attack and applies Mage Slayer's spell disruption, too. That way you can play a ranged Mageslayer with war bow and shouts. It's pretty cool imo.     

[Yosharian]

9 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Mage Slayer with Effort (enchantment Hemorrhaging) can apply the Mage Slayer's spell disruption with his shouts (!). The great sword's enchantment also procs off of shout- and spell-crits and so on - and it counts as melee attack. So you can shout a Driving Roar and drop enemies and also apply Blood Frenzy's DoT or Spirit Frenzy's Stagger + Effort's Hemorrhaging (hobble or sicken) + Spell Disruption. If you stack 4 spell disruptions the enemy cannot cast anything anymore. 

Cool idea but its removed by Elric =D

Now I'm thinking about making a Nalpazca monk.  Do drug effects stack with food effects?

[Okkes]

On 10/27/2024 at 4:59 AM, Yosharian said:

Hello, I am trying to build a second party for my Deadfire guide (LINK), my first party was built for Veteran:

1. Watcher Psyblade (Tactician/Beguiler) - striker/disabler
2. Serafen Swashbuckler (Unbroken / Trickster) - tanky riposter
3. Rekke Templar (Priest of Wael / Goldpact Knight) - tanky healer
4. Tekehu Ascetic (Helwalker / Watershaper) - glass cannon nuker (he died a lot lol)
5. Mercenary Shepherd (Ghostheart / Goldpact Knight) - ranged striker/healer

 

Is there any easy way to change companions classes?

[Yosharian]

2 hours ago, Okkes said:

Is there any easy way to change companions classes?

It's in my Deadfire steam page, I wouldn't say it's 'easy' but the instructions are clear IMO 

[Yosharian]

Yeah I think I'm going to try a Berserker/Nalpazca for my Watcher, it's a shame that Corpse Eater isn't quite where it needs to be because I really wanted to try it out.

Not quite sure how to build the stats yet, I would like to have high CON but I can't see where I can draw the points from..  Dump RES I suppose, not sure what else

I'm also not sure about Moon Godlike vs Human, Human has some strong advantages but the Moon Godlike's healing and their raw damage reduction (25%) is also quite enticing.

Edited October 29 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

I'd say Moon Goolike. Not sure what is raw damage reduction, I guess is a mod feature. Anyway it is better also vanilla, imho.

For attributes, dump RES, high MIG and INT, if you want hig CON you need mid/low DEX even if I hate dumping DEX, but INT and MIG are almost no choice for damage, healing and abilities duration.

[Yosharian]

18 minutes ago, Chaospread said:

I'd say Moon Goolike. Not sure what is raw damage reduction, I guess is a mod feature. Anyway it is better also vanilla, imho.

For attributes, dump RES, high MIG and INT, if you want hig CON you need mid/low DEX even if I hate dumping DEX, but INT and MIG are almost no choice for damage, healing and abilities duration.

Is it worth the loss of the helm slot though?  There are some neat helms.  I was thinking about:

Cap of the Laughingstock: complete immunity fear, the deflection penalty doesn't really matter since everything is going to hit me anyway?
Defiant Apparel: perception resistance
Copperhead's Helm: for reducing incoming spell damage
Death's Maw: reducing damage taken when near a dead enemy
Helm of the Falcon: -10% recovery time...
Helm of the White Void: helps land Terrified from Spirit Tornado
Horns of the Aurochs: immunity to push/pull which is important because of the arcane archer, one of only two items to grant this the other being a belt; also gives a weapon damage boost when hit/crit which is nice
Horns of The Bleak Mother: resistance to resolve aff.
Survivor's Tusks: one-time heal at below 50% hp, and some other things

So I could be a human, and get Fighting Spirit which is quite nice for many reasons, and then also benefit from one of these helms...  I'm just not sure that Moon Godlike's abilities are better than Fighting Spirit AND one of these helms

I'm thinking Horns of the Aurochs is probably the best one

Edited October 29 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

I like Survivor's Tusks also for one "revive", so you can combo with unconscious abilities, the ones that give you +1 or +2 attributes, Rekvu's Fractured Casque if you mange to be injured, Pearlescent Helstone Helm for spell resistance... head gears are good but many are situational, some abilities can be replaced from other gears and/or abilities.

If you go with low DEX Helm of the Falcon could be the choice, not only recovery bonus but some ranged defense.
If you'd go SOLO it is an hard choice maybe, but in a party, relying also on companions ability... well I think I'd prefer Godlike
But I don't mind so much, both choices give you feasible characters, if you wanna play with helms and so on, go human

[Yosharian]

Alright this is where I'm at currently

Quote

Ravager (Berserker/Nalpazca)

Race: Human (Fighting Spirit, +1 MIG, +1 RES)
Culture: Living Lands (+1 MIG)
Background: Colonist (+1 Athletics, +1 Survival, +1 Alchemy)
Weapon Proficiencies: Warbow, Morning Star

Ability Scores:
MIG: 19 -> 22
CON: 18 -> 21
DEX: 09 -> 11
PER: 18 -> 20
INT: 09 -> 11
RES: 04 -> 06
Attribute bonus: Effigy's Resentment (Durance) - +1 CON, +5% max Health
Attribute bonus: Gift from the Machine - +1 MIG, +5% max Health
Attribute bonus: Berath's Blessing - +2 to all attributes

Skills:
Primary: Alchemy
Secondary: Intimidate

Endgame Equipment:
Suggested Pet: Pes (+10% melee damage, +5% hit-to-crit party aura)
Food Buff: Hot Razor Skewers (+2 weapon PEN, +2 MIG, +1 PL) [344cp]
Main Hand: The Willbreaker (-3 Will on-hit, +10% AS, 25% Shaken on-hit) [Unavoidable Demise, The Mind Makes Real]
Ranged: Any
Armor: Devil of Caroc Breastplate (+2 Power Pool) [Mechanical Mind, Devil's Due]
Belt: Amazing Potion Belt (+2 Alchemy, free potion at start of combat)
Feet: Rakhan Field Boots (+3 Corrode AR, grants No Quarter [Teleport to enemy attack])
Gloves: Apothecary's Gloves (+2 Alchemy, +1 DEX)
Head: Horns of the Aurochs (+10% FR damage on incoming hit/crit, Push/Pull immunity)
Neck: Sisyfo's Stone (Up to 10% Action Speed/reduced incoming damage when hit/crit)
Ring1: Ring of Prosperity's Fortune (+15% Increased Hit-to-Crit chance if 200k+ money)
Ring1: Ring of Greater Regeneration (+3 Health restored per 6 sec)
Shoulders: Three Trolls Stitched (+5 HP every 12 sec, -2 Burn/Corrode AR)

Just concerned its a bit too squishy, but with all the summons I'm going to be throwing down its probably OK

Edited October 29 by Yosharian

[Yosharian]

My next concern is how to optimise healing for the party. I really need a dedicated healer but I'm not sure who that will be.  In my last team I had three quite strong healers so this is quite a different situation lol

I'm thinking of adding Paladin in somewhere for a spot healer, I'm just sceptical that a Chanter can really be a primary healer compared to Priest/Druid

So current setup is

1. Watcher Berserker/Nalpazca
2. Fassina Arcane Archer, maybe multi with Chanter
3. Serafen Psion/Troubadour
4. SC Wizard not sure who yet, maybe some of Citzal's build
5. ?

Edited October 29 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

As Boeroer said in another thread, a Lifegiver / Priest of Eothas is a great healer. If you want more summons, maybe a Chanter (Troubador or vanilla) / Lifegiver.

[Yosharian]

I guess my question is what exactly does a Chanter do for healing besides chanting Ancient Memory? Which seems like a trickle of healing at best 

I know they get Old Siec later but...

[Chaospread]

Woa, I'm currently playing a Beckoner and even if she is not built to be an healer, she is great in that.

Ancient Memory is good, but in addition you Old Siec that is impressive for damage dealer, then Mercy and Kidness is 50% more healing and you can add items, food and pets on top of that, you have immediately Come, come soft winds which is a great self health chant, there is Her Courage that save 10 health points; besides there are invocations: Rejoice, My Comrades! can heal and do damage, moreover Rise, Rise Again and its upgrade revive an ally (isn't it a form of healing?). I repeat, you can stack many items, pets and so on a give impressive "background" healing to your party while you are attacking, casting or whatever you want, plus some "spot" healing.
I use them in solo fot auto heal but they are very good for healing summons, animated weapons benefit much with Ancient Memory, Mercy and Kidness and above all Old Siec.

Early levels (and even after those) Chanter can provide healing through scrolls, they can cast during chants, it is ok with ranged weapon because you can stop reload and cast a scroll immediately in case of need.

And don't forget that there are many chants to prevent damage and or to enhance defenses.

[Yosharian]

Those all seem neat but it doesn't seem on the same level as a Paladin or Priest or Druid who can slap down a huge heal to save someone's ass

Let's say I'm interested in making the 5th person a dedicated healer, what's the perspective on Paladin/Druid vs SC Druid

I don't think I want Paladin+Priest cos that's what I ran last time

I heard SC Lifegiver is good but I'm having a hard time seeing how it's better than multi classing with Pally

I guess Priest/Druid is also an option

Edit: ok so I looked in depth at Druid and I started thinking about how I can make a single-class Druid that can also do other stuff...  Healing-focused Druid that can also summon? Kinda tricky cos Lifegiver can't summon.  Ancient Druid can summon effectively but then there's a lot of healing spells I have to pick up.  And the whole Spiritshift mechanic isn't really what I'm looking for.  So then I actually considered Chanter again lol.  Now I'm not sure if it's better to go single-class Chanter (perhaps a Bellower) or go for Chanter/Paladin.  Hmm.

Edited October 29 by Yosharian

[Chaospread]

Druid summons are kinda "meh". For summons I'd pick up a chanter, but why bellower? Bellower as reduced chant area, it can be good for a caster to enhance power level but I think it's not ideal as support.
Chanter/Paladin can be good cause you have two auras for one characters who you can give him HIGH INT and manage this in good manner; he can provide "background" healing as chanter and "spot" healing as paladin, and you have summons (great summons) too. Think about that.

[Yosharian]

I think I'm going to go for a Lifegiver/Chanter as my support healer. Chanter will provide the summoning.

Not quite sure what subclass to pick though. Yeah Bellower is not the play as you pointed out.

[Yosharian]

Also, you suggested single class Ranger earlier, I've realised I actually do need to do that in order to get Imbue Pull of Eora faster. So I'm curious what skills you rate on that class as I've never done an SC ranger before