Help with party composision [PotD, upscaled]

[soy_captain]

I'm planning my 2nd Deadfire run (PotD, upscaled) and looking for recommendations on how to round out this proposed party.

1. Herald (paladin/chanter), Whispers of the Endless Paths?
2. Battlemage (wizard/fighter), Citzal's Spirit Lance
3. Priest
4. ??
5. ??

What are some good classes or multiclasses to round out this party? Are there any powerful or interesting weapons you'd build around? I'm open to small tweaks for the first 3 characters if it helps to enable recommendations for the 4th and 5th slots (please do let me know if you think the 3 proposed characters won't work somehow, regardless of the 4th and 5th slots). Finally, I'd prefer not to play a full class Monk, as that was my MC for my first run.

Thanks!

[Boeroer]

1. If you think WotEP in a Herald is cool then you can use it. From a mechanical standpoint I think it doesn't offer much for such a multiclass - unless you are building an offensive minded Steel Garrote/Skald with WotEP's Offensive Parry or something like that. Iirc Offensive Parry can grant phrases on crit for a Skald - and the cone attack can help to raise the chance for a crit against multiple enemies, too.

4. I assume your battle mage is supposed to deal damage mostly. In that case you'd seem to lack CC/debuffing/disabling options. A specialized wizard, cipher or druid could be nice. You already have a wizard so maybe you don't want that class a second time (although Assassin/Blood Mage would be an excellent pick for that role).

A SC Druid could do CC but also add more healing on demand which might be helpful. Livegivers don't really have a big drawback and can help with anything besides healing.

If Cipher sounds better I'd recommend a Psion or Beguiler. Their action economy is a lot better for the role of debuffer/controller/disabler than a regular Cipher's. Maybe multiclassed with Monk (since you don't have any and Monks provide bonus INT and accuracy and so on). Lingering Echoes + 10 INT leads to really impressive durations.

5. If your herald isn't the main tank: a main tank.

 

 

Edited September 30 by Boeroer

[Bogdan of Buck]

Personal compsostion I'm using on my current PoTD playtrough (Using Unity Console to make companions have subclasses):

1. Eder as Unbroken/Streetfighter

2. Priest (Respecced Tekehu as Priest of Ondra, cs I cant stand Xoti, but I reccomend using him as a Druid on the next slot)

3. Wizard No Subclass or Bloodmage (Aloth) or Single Druid Tekehu for AOE control and damage

4. DPS that can pick off High Priority squishy targets  like enemy casters. Can be ranged(Scout Maia with Red Hand) or fast movement meele (Monk/Rogue)

5. Flex pick on whatever you need. I like summoner. (Tekehu is really good here as well since he can also heal really good. I'm using Trobadour/Psion build by Boeroer). 

 

[soy_captain]

@Boeroer thank you for reviewing and providing feedback. By the way, I loved the build ideas that you featured in the video with @Aestus. I didn't play the game upon release and am very grateful that the community is still semi-active.

1. I had planned the Herald to be a tank but hadn't though much about the build itself. Can you please help me to understand why WotEP (with Offensive Parry) wouldn't be a great choice mechanically speaking? Is it that a Herald specifically doesn't benefit much from the available action economy that WotEP provides? What weapon would be a great choice for a main-tank Herald?

4. (You're right that the Battlemage is intended to fill the offensive tank role.) Can you say more about the Assassin/Blood Mage? Specifically, what about the Assassin makes it great in the CC/debuffing role?

5. Assuming that I've got main tank (Herald), off tank (Battlemage), support (Priest), and CC/debuffing (TBD), do you have any specific recommendations for this 5th slot? I think answering that may help me decide on #4.

Thanks again!

[Chaospread]

Hi, I'd go (no particularly reasons, only general feelings) with:

4. Oracle (Druid/Cipher) jack of all trades healing/debuffing/buffing/CC and why not, damage

5. Scout (Ranger/Rogue) to take the best with ranged weapons and for targeting single enemies

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, soy_captain said:

1. I had planned the Herald to be a tank but hadn't though much about the build itself. Can you please help me to understand why WotEP (with Offensive Parry) wouldn't be a great choice mechanically speaking? Is it that a Herald specifically doesn't benefit much from the available action economy that WotEP provides? What weapon would be a great choice for a main-tank Herald?

Imo a main tank (und thus the party) profits a lot from engagement slots. Neither Paladin nor Chanter help you gain those, so it's mostly up to gear. A shield already gives you +1 engagement (besides the nice defensive features). 

Usually Herald tanks use Ancient Memory + Exalted Endurance (and later Mercy and Kindness) to passively heal themselves and the party members near them. A fitting item that adds even more passive "aura" healing is Lethandria's Devotion. For the standard passive healing Herald tank that would be my pick. Then a weapon with additional engagement (spear + modal, Kapana Taga or Shattered Vengeance) maybe.

If you were using a Steel Garrote/Troubadour with Ancient Memory+Old Siec then WotEP with Offensive Parry could make sense because the Steel Garrote passive and Old Siec do stack. So Offensive Parries would heal you up. But tanking spells and ranged attacks is still hard that way. Maybe if your Battlemage offtank will support with the tanking a lot it can work.

A thematically nice Herald with a good coherent item collection is imo: 

Huana (Island Aumaua), Mataru-style Shieldbearer/Troubadour with Reckless Brigandine (+1 bonus engagement, up to +2 bonus AR, bonus speed per engaged target), Kapana Taga (+2 bonus engagement, immunity to flanked) and Cadhu Scalth (+2 engagement due to Shieldbearer, damage resistance, deflection bonus, needs investment in athletics and metaphysics). This looks like a proper Huana Warrior and it's a strong tanking setup with 5 engagement slots just from gear.  For a helmet it's difficult to find something visually fitting but imo Horns of the Break Mother looks cool with it (also provides resistance to RES affliction). Or you can pick any helmet like Death's Maw or so and then just hide its visuals (eye symbol button in the inventory UI). 

But that's just what I like because it provides plenty engagement slots while also looking cool and coherent imo. Also chance to play a Huana.

Another cool shield for a Herald is the tower shield from Crookspur imo. It allows for a totally different visual/thematical approach.

16 hours ago, soy_captain said:

4. (You're right that the Battlemage is intended to fill the offensive tank role.) Can you say more about the Assassin/Blood Mage? Specifically, what about the Assassin makes it great in the CC/debuffing role?

The Assassin gets +25 accuracy from stealth and invisibility. This an universal acc buff, so it also works for spells. Opening the fight with a +25 acc disable can be immensely impactful. Never mind the bonus crit damage etc., that's not important. It's the +25 accuracy. It stacks with every other accuracy buff. You can pretty easily turn a whole encounter  sleeping with Call to Slumber and buy your party plenty of preparing time that way. If you want to use this synergy in mid fight just use either Shadowing Beyond or Smoke Veil. Can also make nice use of the Assassin Slippers. And of course the Assassin/Wizard combo is also able to deal good damage via spells. Ninagauth's Shadowflame is a great opening spell for an Assassin/Wizard. 

This alone makes the Assassin/Wizard a great at debuffing/cc. What makes him even better later on: once you get Arkemyr's Grimoire you'll have access to the spell Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure. It turns you invisible for a long time. And the best thing about this invisibility is that it doesn't break as long as you don't deal damage (also no self damage). But almost all disabling spells don't deal damage. So you can stay invisible and save and cast devastating debuffing/cc/disable spells with 25 bonus acc all the time. And if it runs out you can cast a final high damage spell, then maybe regain some spells with Blood Sacrifice and turn invisible again with Brilliant Departure. If you get hurt from Blood Sacrifice and are wearing Effigy's Husk you can spread Skaen's Resentment (prevent healing aura) while standing near enemies while invisible. It still works. 

If want to go total disabling overkill you pick up the great sword Effort, enchant it with Hemorrhaging and start wearing Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak. It stuns enemies with weapon attack made from invisibility or stealth. Hemorrhaging procs its sicken/hobble effects on spells also(!) and that effect counts as weapon attack - but does no damage. So it doesn't lift the invisibility of Brilliant Departure. But it triggers the stun from Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak. This stun can again trigger Hemorrhaging - and a loop of stun-sicken/hobble-stun-etc. can occur that takes enemies completely out of the action. Works best with pulsing cc spells like Slicken, Binding Web and Pull of Eora. Efort is also a nice pick for the Essential Phantom of a wizard (together with Effigy's Husk) because it can do a Full Attack to all enemies in range when the phantom dies. Which is a nice side effect of the sword (and the robe) in the hands of a wizard.

16 hours ago, soy_captain said:

5. Assuming that I've got main tank (Herald), off tank (Battlemage), support (Priest), and CC/debuffing (TBD), do you have any specific recommendations for this 5th slot? I think answering that may help me decide on #4.

I'd lean towards a Livegiver or Ancient Druid I think. But anything goes really. Some high-priority single target hunter (ranged Scout, Monk, Soulblade etc.) would work, too. Or an Ascendant/Arcane Archer with Frostseeker? Great against single targets but mobs, too. 

Edited October 1 by Boeroer

[soy_captain]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Usually Herald tanks use Ancient Memory + Exalted Endurance (and later Mercy and Kindness) to passively heal themselves and the party members near them. A fitting item that adds even more passive "aura" healing is Lethandria's Devotion. For the standard passive healing Herald tank that would be my pick. Then a weapon with additional engagement (spear + modal, Kapana Taga or Shattered Vengeance) maybe.

If you were using a Steel Garrote/Troubadour with Ancient Memory+Old Siec then WotEP with Offensive Parry could make sense because the Steel Garrote passive and Old Siec do stack. So Offensive Parries would heal you up. But tanking spells and ranged attacks is still hard that way. Maybe if your Battlemage offtank will support with the tanking a lot it can work.

You're a legend! Thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful reply! Both of these options seem appealing, but the standard passive healing tank seems like the safer pick.

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

This alone makes the Assassin/Wizard a great at debuffing/cc. What makes him even better later on: once you get Arkemyr's Grimoire you'll have access to the spell Arkemyr's Brilliant Departure.

This is so cool--I'm sold on this character as my cc/debuffer. I didn't know that the Assassin's 25 accuracy was global, so thanks for clarifying.

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Ascendant/Arcane Archer with Frostseeker?

And I love this idea too. I've seen this idea mentioned in some of your prior posts. Sounds very strong.

Given all of your input and the fact that the Spellblade (assassin/wizard) sound so fun, I'm now questioning my Battlemage pick. It seems too redundant to have both an assassin/wizard and a fighter/wizard. What do you think? Is Citzal's Spirit Lance worth the redundancy? I'm trying to think of something that has synergy with the rest of the party...

Here's my updated list:

1. Herald (paladin/chanter), Kapana Taga and Lethandria's Devotion
2. ??
3. Priest
4. Spellblade (assassin/wizard)
5. Seer (arcane archer/ascendant), Frostseeker

[Boeroer]

Hm, since you'll have lots of AoE dmg potential, you might want to "form" enemy clusters. Or in other words get as many enemies in a certain spot. And I think some sort of Fighter who helps the Herald with engagement and forms a good front line that isn't rushed easily isn't a bad idea.

So Battle Mage still sounds solid to me. You can even use Spirit Lance + Essential Phantom to get another front liner with AoE capability who stands in the way of enemies. Also Spirit Lance + Clear Out just wrecks houses.  Unbending + Wall of Draining is a bit like god mode.

Maybe something completely different would be a Stalker/Devoted with dual hatchets (and a Bear). Fists as backup. Max religion skill. Two more bodies for the front line. Use Xoti's Sickle and Vion-Ceth. Cast Binding Roots on the enemies you want to hit (unlocks Vion-Ceth's Wood Bane enchantment,+30% dmg) and profit from Xoti's Sickle's increasing bonus dmg and speed once you killed an enemy. Should be plenty sturdy for an offtank, grant engagement and an additional big body (Bear), have great acc and deal nice weapon dmg. And adds some CC with Binding Roots, too. 

 

[soy_captain]

19 hours ago, Boeroer said:

So Battle Mage still sounds solid to me. You can even use Spirit Lance + Essential Phantom to get another front liner with AoE capability who stands in the way of enemies. Also Spirit Lance + Clear Out just wrecks houses.  Unbending + Wall of Draining is a bit like god mode.

Great--Battlemage it is then!

Back to the Spellblade: you said that self-damage would break invisibility, right? So blood mage might not be the best subclass, or does it not really matter?

Finally, I wanted to hear your thoughts on Brute (barbarian/devoted)--not necessarily for my party but more in general. For my prior playthrough, I used a Howler with Long Night's Drink and Willbreaker to do the whole Fortitude debuffing thing. Would a Brute be doing similar debuffing, just trading the chanter stuff for the tankiness of a fighter? Or does a Brute fill a totally different role?

[soy_captain]

Actually, never mind with the Brute question. I found some older posts that explained the advantages of Berkserker/Devoted with Morning Stars

[Boeroer]

14 hours ago, soy_captain said:

Back to the Spellblade: you said that self-damage would break invisibility, right? So blood mage might not be the best subclass, or does it not really matter?

Well, you would only use Blood Sacrifice once you run out of spell uses I assume. And then you'd turn visible soon anyway. The drawback of the Bloodmage and the Assassin (receiving more damage) doesn't matter much when you're invisible a lot. The other drawback (no Empower) isn't really one for most players because they don't use Empower in the first place.

But another wizard subclass like for example Illusionist (or no subclass) also would work of course. You can use Empower once per fight to regain spell uses without breaking invisibility.