Fresh meat ask for advice !. (PoE 1 and PoE 2)

[BarryKent]

Hello to all forum members !. I recently bought PoE 1 and 2, but the game seems a bit complicated for me (even though I'm a rather experienced RPG player).

The problem is as follows. Which character class would be optimal for a beginner like me? Personally, I think about barbarian, but I'd love to read your opinions. When it comes to race, I would choose Orlan (I'm a fan of hobbits and halflings). Then, is it worth following builds on the forum or is it better to make optimal character build yourself (I don't know what the op items are and where they can be obtained). Thanks for your comments!. I`m gona play on normal difficulty, and if you like to know, in RPG`s i mostly play the most simplest, easiest, low brain class as possible (often is a warrior like class). 

[Blades of Vanatar]

IMO survivability until mechanics are understood then mastered is what makes or breaks a players interest in a game. Orlan Fighter or Paladin is a nice early game choice. So is a Moon Godlike Pally with all their healing triggers, its hard to go down. Both are easy to manage. 

[Blades of Vanatar]

The builds on this forum are mostly about great end game results. Optimal builds. Many are great, but not necessary on Normal mode. 

[Boeroer]

Best beginner classes are Paladin, Fighter, Ranger and Monk. All of them have good starting values, are front loaded and aren't squishy.

I personally like the Monk class best but it has the most "complicated" mechanics of those four. 

The easiest to start with might be the fighter.

Barbarian is another favorite of mine but it's incredibly squishy in the early game due to the abysmal deflection defense - while hitting a barn door at best. It needs some levels to get going (and become lots of fun) and thus isn't great for beginners imo.  

Edited January 7 by Boeroer

[BarryKent]

Thanks for your replies!.

As for the classes you mentioned. Paladin, well, I like this class, I often played paladins in DnD games (BG, NwN, IWD), so I might consider it. Similarly, a fighter very like this class. Hunter are rather too passive in action. I used to play a lot of BG Saga and I honestly loved it when my warrior or paladin received a critical hit and the opponent fell into small pieces. If it's possible in PoE saga, I would really like to feel that blow again.

I would also like to ask if there is a guide somewhere for the build companions? I would like my team to be playable rather than constantly dying and useless.

If we talking about paladin and fighter, i like to make him more as a striker, sort of dps hero then tank. 

[Boeroer]

If you want pieces flying around on critcal deathblows you have to look into the game options menu. There's a "gib" select box that has to be checked. But iirc it is on by default.

Since the companions start one level above custom hirelings (the ones which you can compose yourself) they are usually not just dying and useless. Imo the game is a lot better with them than without them, at the very least for the first complete playthrough.

Builds from the build list usually work for the companions, too - unless there's a specific character race involved which the build is based on (like fire godlike or so).

I would recommend to bring a Priest (official companion named Durance). Priests are the most impactful class for a party because their support abilities are so strong. 

Paladins or Fighters will never be the most potent DPS option (same as in the old BG games etc.) but they can be among the most solid and reliable ones because it is usually difficult to kill then even if they are not build to be tanks. When it comes to melee dps, generally speaking: in this game dual wielding will have an edge over two handed - and that will be better than single weapon. There are of course lots of exceptions, it depends on the type of enemy and build and unique weapon etc. and there's no truly crucial difference, but if one aims for maximal melee dps then dual wielding is the way to go for Paladin or Fighter.

A Paladin who wishes to focus on damage dealing should invest into his flames of devotion ability to be able to deliver two impactful strikes during an encounter. Later the ability Sacred Immolation will provide a ton of damage. 

Fighter has the good Knockdown ability and later the very good Charge ability. Don't sleep on Charge, it can take out weak but dangerous enemies like casters in the back rows very quickly because it does a "hidden" full attack (meaning both weapons strike) at the target on top of its crushing damage that it officially does.

The game rewards stacking attack speed bonuses. As dual wielder you can rel. easily reach low recovery time. This is very important for weapon dps. Dexterity gives you speed and so does dual wielding and some talents and abilities but also some items. Speed is not only important for DPS but also to avoid getting interrupted (that sucks) and also to be more responsive/reactive. It can be very frustrating if you cannot drink a healing potion and die because you have to recover from a swing for ages. 

Accuracy is one of the most, if not the most important stat to have for an offensive character. Besides bringing a Priest who can boost the party's accuracy you want to make sure your dps fighter or paladin has good (or even maxed out) accuracy. First and easiest thing to do is to have good Perception. Then weapon quality provides accuracy among other benefits. A weapon with bonus accuracy is better than one with bonus damage (weapon quality provides both, but there is stuff like "accurate I-III and "damaging I-III" on some weapons).

Damage per hit is not as important as damage per second (and attack speed itself) - but it plays an important role when you are against heavily armored enemies. High damage per hit makes it easier to overcome thick armor (more dmg gets through). There's a point where very fast attacks with lower dmg per hit get mostly eaten up by armor and a slow but hefty strike wins the day. So don't neglect dmg per hit altogether. All damage bonuses like from weapon quality or from abilities and also the Might stat raise the dmg per hit.

In theory the best weapon dps will come from maxed DEX, PER and MIG and then the fitting abilities and weapons of course while having as little recovery as possible. But of course putting all your points into those that will make you more squishy. And knocked out chars do no dps. So it's a balance. The easier the difficulty setting the more 'glass-cannonish" you guy can be. In general it's very difficult for a melee char to not get attacked. But if you can keep the number of enemies who are attacking you low (for example by flanking an already engaged enemy rather than running inti the fray) you can stay alive much longer. Having said that, Fighter and Paladin are reasonably sturdy compared to most other classes even when going full dps mode. Way easier to stay alive than with Barbarian and Rogue. 

Rangers by the way don't have to be passive and only shoot bows etc.

In PoE they make viable melee combatants - who come with their animal companion which can also be a good melee damage dealer (especially the part of high "damage per hit" against though armor can be done very well by an animal companion, when leveled properly they hit slowly - but like trucks). Rangers don't have the most fancy melee special attacks, but they can be faster bc. of a modal they can pick (see the importance of speed) and they are most accurate - while they come in a pair rather than alone which is already an advantage. Unlike BG games they have no spells besides a lil' tanglefoot thing that you don't need to pick - but are mostly about striking. The best rangers still use bows I'd say, but melee is a viable and fun option, too. I did some build in the build list named "Riptide..." - it's a two-handed melee ranger that was fun to play (but too squishy for a beginner though I think). 

 

 

Edited January 7 by Boeroer

[BarryKent]

Thx Boeroer  for your advices. I`m just test my monk PC and i must say i very like this class (burning fists looks cool !). I have now two monks with diffriend stats. My first have MIG16, CON12, DEX16, PER10, INT10, RES14, and second hero (after when i read your post) have MIG14, CON12, DEX14, PER14, INT10, RES14, which one have "best" stats ?. For me spread optimal points for stats is super weird in this game cuz, your hero need all stats to be good (i`m base my knowledge on games like BG, NwN, IWD, Dragon age itd.) is not like other games where you need only push two stats to be ok or even op in game. Thats why i`m thinking to change my monks for class like chanter, to just focus only INT, RES and PER (i read that this stats are heavy text oriented also) for range attack and casts some buffs. 

I also read many builds and guids for game and i`m more confiuse then ever. I can`t make my hero run cuz when i play i feel like i miss something (my stats are bad i should pump more in other stat). That why i think about chanter, just stay low, summon some **** (i have hana on my team ) and focus more in dialog options. So yea i`m that type of rpg player i like grab basic class and pump one stat or two to the skys (In BG 1/2 you need three stats to be ok, in NWN two stats, Dragon Age Origins two stats). I`m now more testing game than playing, and i really want enjoy this game but for now i`m in weird spot with this game. 

Like, can i make a dwarf fighter with 20 MIG and 16 CON and thats it ?, grab best weapon you can take and destroy dragon or any enemes ?. (I`m little ranting now so sorry for this). 

[Boeroer]

On 1/8/2024 at 10:15 AM, BarryKent said:

Like, can i make a dwarf fighter with 20 MIG and 16 CON and thats it ?, grab best weapon you can take and destroy dragon or any enemes ?. (I`m little ranting now so sorry for this). 

Sure, you can do that and that is totally viable. Killing dragons will take a high level party though. They are very tough. 

Fortunately the attributes (MIG, CON etc.) don't have such a big impact as they had in BG or other D&D games. It's more about the right ability and talent choice and so on. Dwarf Fighter with dual war hammers for example can be effective. But not only with 20 MIG and 16 CON but also with 10 MIG and 18 INT. Because every attribute does something useful your character will not be gimped if you allocate attributes in a different way. He will just be better at certain things (for example delivering longer debuffs with higher INT) than in others (less damage per hit with lower MIG).

By the way: High INT Fighters can have really great use: Fighters have great accuracy, way better than spellcasters. And they also have a great self buff that raises accuracy further. Because of that they are very good with items that grant spell effects (look for items with "spellbind" enchantments). For example there's an armor that lets you cast Sunbeam 3/rest and an amulat that lets you cast Sunbeam 2/rest on top. A fighter can cast those sunbeams with very high accuracy which makes them very effective casts. So you can essentialy play a sort of Fighter/Mage just by collecting those items (and having decent INT). Add one of the "cross class" talents such as Aspirant's Mark to emphasize the fighter/caster hybrid build further. 

A lot of fun builds are possible in this game. The classes are not as restricted as in BG. But that also means you have more creative freedom - and more stuff to think about.

 

Edited January 10 by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

Hi @BarryKent, welcome!
Boeroer is a guru of PoE 1 and 2, so all that he say is like a "bible" and you can trust all that there's in this and other posts of his.

I would like to add humbly a side note on attributes point partition: unless you are making I build focused on crits, almost every build is viable with 10 PER, because the game is calibrated about this value and also because accuracy can be raised very high with skill, talents, spells, equipment and so on. I made a run on PotD solo with a Orlan with 5 (3 base + 2 racial) PER value:

Thus, if you have doubt to which attribute save points, you can go with 10/12 PER and put your points in other useful stats (DEX INT and MIGHT over the others).
CON and RES can be keep at 8/10 unless for particularly build OR to get more dialogue OR more peaceful quest resolution (RES above all); MAX/MIN players often tend to dump them also to 3, but for the first runs I discourage this

But as Boeroer said (and especially in a party), you can go almost with any point distribution and in any case, you could go to an inn and respec your character changing the attributes points if you think you was wrong or if you wanna experiment other distributions

Strategy and equipment play a more important role than stats in this game.

Have fun!

[Boeroer]

Yeah - it's true that PER isn't that important in the long run. After all is done it might turn out to have been the least important attribute (out of the trio DEX, MIG and PER) when it comes to dealing damage.

But I still recommend to put points into PER - especially for beginners who want to play offensive characters - because the first impression of your character is very important to how you perceive your char's performance, if you enjoy it or not.
In the early game the options to raise your accuracy - and thus to improve your odds of delivering a hit (let alone a crit) - are very limited. At the same time the enemies have relatively high defenses (and also sometimes rel. thick armor compared to your damage per hit). It's one reason why the early game feels so tough for low ACC starters such as Barbs and also a reason why using a single one handed weapon is effective in the early game: it gives you +12 accuracy. If you miss a lot it's superannoyig of course - but also grazes' damage malus have a bigger negative impact on your overall damage than later in the game (where the additive damage malus of grazing gets countered by a variety of damage bonuses) so you barely scratch enemies with somewhat decent armor if you only graze them. This becomes very apparent in Raedric's Castle (lots of armored foes with good defenses).  
So especially in the early game you can feel a big difference between a character who has like ~10 ACC or even more over the others (be it from single one handed weapon and/or lots of PER and/or flanking the enemies before actually striking).

So, basically it's a recommendation that makes it more likely that you won't get frustrated by your (otherwise fine) char's weapon performance in the early game - which will increase the odds that you stick with it and don't drop it prematurely. 

This is also the main reason why I recommend to take Inspiring Radiance asap with a fellow Priest. It's a short-lived +10ACC bonus - but it stacks with everything (good for the later game) and makes the early game a lot easier.

If you know what you are doing you can totally drop PER and be fine. Later in the game there's so many options to compensate for lower PER and a few additional points of accuracy will only get you decreasing returns.
But for somebody who's still "stumbling" through the mechanics a bit I'd say it's an easy way to make your har more enjoyable. In that regard I also value DEX over MIG a lot - it's more frustrating to play a very sluggish char than it is to play one who hits a bit less harder imo.

But all in all, as was said: attributes matter, but they don't matter too much.   

Edited January 10 by Boeroer

[Chaospread]

True, I didn't think about first stages of game for a beginner player, where to not hit often the enemy could be annoying and this could not make the game enjoyable
Aside of Priest, also a Paladin (the main char or an hireling at Black Hound) could help for ACC with Zealous Focus: maybe it doesn't stack with all, but it is a more manageable source of ACC early moments of game, "persistent" e with no action to think about for a beginner (put on the modal and forgive it).

I totally agree for DEX: not to being able to make actions it's worst than low accuracy, I tried to build some melee chars with low DEX and I had to desist, no way at all!
Aside the usual "only tank meat" char or some chanter builds, better put points in DEX; furthermore fast chars are very fun most of times

[BarryKent]

So i tested most of the classes (Fighter, monk, paladin, barbarian, chanter), and i must say so far i like fighter monk and paladin. But in internet i found how looks dialogue checks and i decided to make a talking head hero like in Planscape Torment, my nameless was medicore in fighting but great in talking, i like make peacefull solutions. Then i think about class who will be perfect for that type, and i pick Paladin (mostly talk head, support/ tanky class) .

I looked on this forum and i find Boeroer`s paladin build Counselor Ploi . I make some changes (i don`t like elves so i pick Moon godlike), stats MIG15, CON10, DEX8 PER15, INT15, RES15, and i think to make him a classic knight with sword and shield. 

So far so good, i`m now in main city, and i enjoy my paladin, but now i read how good is dex and again i have bad feelings hehe :D. Thanks guys about your advices i appreciate your engagement and your help. Also can you tell me for PoE 2 there is similar build for paladin ?. Ah yes, also i use this companions builds guide.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2143029546

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, BarryKent said:

I looked on this forum and i find Boeroer`s paladin build Counselor Ploi . I make some changes (i don`t like elves so i pick Moon godlike), stats MIG15, CON10, DEX8 PER15, INT15, RES15, and i think to make him a classic knight with sword and shield. 

So far so good, i`m now in main city, and i enjoy my paladin, but now i read how good is dex and again i have bad feelings hehe :D. Thanks guys about your advices i appreciate your engagement and your help.

The Counselor build is very helpful for a party and imo a good candidate for a main char who wants to enjoy the dialogue options. Since it's not a damage-dealer but a support & tanking character (and later also good occasional CC) this character doesn't need a lot of DEX. 8 is sufficient if you can tolerate that he will not be the fastest striker. You can totally switch the race and it will still be fine. You could also focus even more on the accuracy support and pick Darcozzi Paladini (with Inspiring Liberation - another +10 ACC buff that stacks with everything) over Shieldbearer for example.

1 hour ago, BarryKent said:

Also can you tell me for PoE 2 there is similar build for paladin ?

Unfortunately some of the cornerstones of the Ploi Paladin (Coordinated Attacks and a weapon with the Marking enchantment) don't exist in that form in Deadfire anymore. However, a little variation that I tried that uses a special unique (and early) Estoc (instead of a marking weapon + shield) and is a Paladin/Ranger multiclass. It fulfills a similar role when it comes to ACC support. If the mind control aspect of the Ploi build (see different items' spellbinds) was more interesting then Paladin/Cipher with the same weapon choice would be a better pick.

The Estoc I'm refering to is the Blade of the Endless Paths. It's implemented differently in Deadfire than in PoE but it still allows to improve the hitchances against enemies. In PoE it was done with Marking (ACC bonus), in Deafire it's done with lowering the enemies' deflection. The Ploi build would also work fine with the Blade of the Endless Paths by the way. Less tanky but better weapon damage. Until one reaches the Blade of the Endless Paths (comes pretty late in PoE) one can use an early Pollaxe named "Spectacular Spetum" which also hasthe Marking enchantment. Pollaxes use the same weapon focus as Estocs so it's a perfect backup weapon as well once you get the Estoc. 

So if you are looking for a smooth character build transition from PoE to Deadfire you should probably make a Ploi-inspired Paladin but instead of Sword & Board with Estoc/Pollaxe. Of course a Shieldbearer without a shield would be weird. In that case another Paladin subclass might be better I think.    

In that case I would chance the attributes a bit and give a little more DEX (because Estoc with lowish DEX and fat/slow armor bc. of no shield is not that much fun).

Edited January 10 by Boeroer

[BarryKent]

So if i try make same paladin in PoE 2 like in PoE 1 he will not work ?. Like this same spread of stats also will be bad ?. Cuz i like to play similar paladin knighty with sword and board charismatic/dyplomatic leader. Any idea ?.  

[Chaospread]

If you wanna have high RES for dialogue options, 15 is a good score, but if you wanna catch ALL options concerning RES, you need 20 RES. A score of 18 can catch most of the choices anyway.
You don't have to change your stats, you can achieve higher score with 15 starting RES and then stack some bonuses relatively easy:

• Spoiler

  • Rest bonus (Brighthollow in Stronghold or Blackhound Inn in Gilded Vale before)
    • --> with Blackhound Inn bonus you can achieve 17 RES before Defiance Bay (it is more than sufficient in this stage of game)
  • Boons from Big Durmsey in Ondra's Gift
    • --> with this and Blackound Bonus you catch 19 RES in Defiance Bay, which is enough
  • Equipment bonus (enchanting any armor with +2 Resolve works well in this case, before that some +1 or +2 items can span early in the game)
  • Dragon egg and Dragon
    • --> with these you can pass also 20 RES or have 20 RES choosing others rest and boon bonus
  • Later on you can find equipment with +3/+4 RES and one weapons (stacking bonus with all) with +1 RES (or mid game a scepter with +3, but class limited)

8 DEX is ok for a TANK, as Boeroer said, and moreover with high RES you have high concentration and it is less possible for you to be interrupted

[Boeroer]

13 hours ago, BarryKent said:

So if i try make same paladin in PoE 2 like in PoE 1 he will not work ?. Like this same spread of stats also will be bad ?. Cuz i like to play similar paladin knighty with sword and board charismatic/dyplomatic leader. Any idea ?.  

It will totally work - meaning it will be a viable character in Deadfire. But some of the unique mechanics of the PoE-Ploi (namely Coordinated Attacks + single handed marking weapon) will not be available in Deadfire.

But nothing will stop you from playing a charismatic/diplomatic Paladin with weapon and shield.   

Edited January 11 by Boeroer

[BarryKent]

Oh that nice. Can you give me some suggestion about what atributes and talets are important for paladin in PoE 2 ?. Also i think to not multiclass my paladin and companions.