Brute or crusader for frontline dps MC

[Zhey]

One of the things that's wrong with me is, I find it difficult to enjoy playing a build if I know there is a strictly better one out there that does the same thing.

I'm unable to decide between a brute or crusader for a frontline DPS MC.

The brute seems to have more damage through the barbarian's attack speed increases, hit-to-crit and passive damage increases. Crusader has lashes and high accuracy though, so I'm not sure how significant the difference is?

The crusader offers better survivability through improved defenses, not suffering a deflection mallus and more armor.

So, do you think the higher potential damage of the brute (some of which is conditional on large packs of mobs) outweighs the increased survivability of a crusader?

[Boeroer]

I would say that a Brute is pretty tough, too, especially if you don't dump your CON but instead raise it.

The combination of attack speed (Frenzy, Bloodlust, Blood Thirsty) with Cleaving Stance + Carnage is great. Also Clear Out + Carnage is very good because the push effect of Clear Out pushes the targets into the Change AoE so that even the initial target (who usually don't get hit by Carnage, only the bystander) get hit by it which is some nice free damage upgrade.

Especially with a Morning Star + modal a Brute has very good "virtual" accuracy because he can lower the fortitude of enemies by 25 with the modal alone and then by another 10 points with Spirit Frenzy (staggers enemies). First this makes Knockdown very easy to land (it targets fortitude) and later with Brute Force you will always automatically attack the lower of the two defenses (deflection or fortitude) - except with Clear Out which also targets fortitude (never deflection).

Barbaric Smash is an awesome finisher that costs nothing if done right (best combine it with Bloody Slaughter). Works very well to plan Cleaving Stance procs better (needs bystanding enemies).

Another way to play an offensively impressing Brute is to use Amra (2h Battle Axe) with 25+ MIG and combine Carnage with Riven Gore (the extra Carnage of Amra if you have a crit at 25+ MIG) with Blood Thirst and Cleaving Stance. It is super effective if you use a Berserker/Devoted and use the confusion to Carnage-kill your party's skeletons from a chanter who sings "Many Lives Pass Bye" or summons Ancient Brittle Bones. Every accidental kill of a skeleton will trigger Blood Thirst and Cleaving Stance, attacking another skeleton which will nearly always crit (and kill) triggering Riven Gore which will kill more Skeletons and so on. Very good with a pet that heals on kill, too. It's like the enemies are caught in a meat grinder. But never send allies near that kind of Brute! They will insta-die if they go below 50 HP because Riven Gore not only kills, it outright destroys the ally immediately (and removes them from the party, never to be seen again).

A Morning Star is way more controllable. Or Amra without the Berserker combination. 

Dual battle axes are also very good with the modal and especially once you get Blood Thirst.

I personally prefer the Morning Star route. It is already very effective in the early game when you use Knock Down, making encounters mich easier because you can reliably prone all sorts of enemies.  

For me a Brute is significantly more impactful on the offensive side but also on the debuffing/CC side. 

Of course a Crusader has party support and healing. And he can be tougher. Crusaders are steady and very reliable, that's the plus.  However, most players complain that it's a boring class combination. I don't think it's that boring, but certainly less exciting than the Brute. 

Imo a Crusader can be a nice offensive-minded offtank who brings both reliable offense but still very good additional tanking capability and he can always help the party out with strong single healing and support - but it's not an exciting DPS character.

The Brute is less tanky, but still tanky enough to fill the offtank role, while better on the offensive and debuffing end. Yet he offers no healing or support for others.  

If it's primarily about DPS I would recommend the Brute. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Boeroer

[Zhey]

Hi Boeroer, 

Thanks for taking the time. I've been seeing your replies on lots of the topics I've been searching. Is brute your favourite class combination then?

Which warrior active skill would you take the healing, or increased defenses? And what would be the start spread? 

How often are you finding the brute force triggering? Isn't fortitude somewhat higher than deflection to begin with?

[Boeroer]

12 hours ago, Zhey said:

Hi Boeroer, 

Thanks for taking the time.

Hi, you're welcome.

12 hours ago, Zhey said:

Is brute your favourite class combination then?

You mean in general? Not really. I think my (currently) favourite melee class combo is Berserker/Helwalker with the Saru Sichr Morning Star. But if you ask me if I like Brute over Crusader then yes. Main reason is that I really like Barbarians (and Monks) and at the same time I'm not a huge fan of fighters and also paladins. It's not because of power or anything, it's just a matter of taste.

12 hours ago, Zhey said:

How often are you finding the brute force triggering? Isn't fortitude somewhat higher than deflection to begin with?

If you combine Body Blows (-25), Spirit Frenzy (-10) and then some CON affliction from the party (also -10 - e.g. a sicken from Secret Horrors) you will lower enemies' fortitude by 45 points. There are not many enemies that have 45 points fortitude over deflection. And if they do then usually their deflection is pretty low to begin with and you can attack that instead. So: no loss. But I would say that in over 90% of cases Brute Force gives me an advantage. Often a big one since often enough enemies raise their deflection with buffs (like enemy Wizards) - but seldomly they raise their fortitude as much. It's extremely easy to kill a Rogue who's under the effect of Escape (+50 deflection) if you can just target his fortitude.  

But a Crusader can do the same debuffing with a Morning Star and the help of party members and then use Knockdown to target fortitude - or use FoD with +20 ACC against deflection - which is lower. Not as convenient as Brute Force, but still nice to be able to choose.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Boeroer

[Zhey]

Thanks again for responding. Helps clarify things a lot. And always interesting to see what other people enjoy. Off to the races to try it out