[Rekke Brute Build] - Carnage Tyrant

[kronozord]

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CARNAGE TYRANT
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Difficulty: Veteran with a Party
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Class: Brute (Barbarian + Fighter)
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Race: Storm Folk

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Background: Yezuha (Missionary)
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Stats (No Berath's Blessings):
MIG: 11
CON: 10
DEX: 15
PER: 14
INT: 14
RES: 11

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Skills
Active: Athletics and Alchemy
Passive: Whatever
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PL1
Frenzy
Blooded
Disciplined Barrage
Knockdown

PL2
Barbaric Blow
Thick Skinned
Two-Handed Style
Fighter Stances
Confident Aim

PL3
Wild Sprint
One Stands Alone
Bloody Slaughter
Bloodlust
Tactical Barrage
Penetrating Strike

PL4
Spirit Frenzy
Unflinching
Weapon Specialization

PL5
Barbaric Smash
Interrupting Blows
Mob Stance
Armored Grace

PL6
Improved Critical
Brute Force
Clear Out

PL7
Blood Thirst
Weapon Mastery

Weapon 1: Lord Darryn's Voulge
Weapon 2: Willbreaker
Head: Thao's Headdress
Armor: Garari Cuirass
Neck: Bone Setter's Torc
Hands: Gatecrashers
Feet: Boots of Stone
Waist: The Undying Burden
Ring 1: Ring of Greater Regeneration
Ring 2: Finality's Claim
Cape: Cloak of Greater Protection

 

I've finally had the audacity of replacing my boy Edér with another front liner, but i still feel that something is missing.

This is the build that im using for Rekke at the moment, is there any way i can improve this?

Edited May 15, 2023 by kronozord
adding missing talents

[Shai Hulud]

Is this with or without community patch? Because weapon specialization and mastery aren't worth taking in vanilla. Combined they give +15% damage for two abilities. You also don't take unbending or savage defiance. You really need one or the other if not both. Wild Sprint seems kind of meh compared to charge, which costs more but is an actual movement ability and can stun. Penetrating Strike is probably a skip. Also barbaric blow / smash are not high priority IMO. Clear Out is okay but not super high priority. Basically if this guy is meant to tank at all he needs more defensive abilities IMO.

Take unbending, vigorous defense -> refreshing defense, accurate carnage, and charge, roughly in that order of priority. Maybe Conqueror Stance. Savage -> Stalwart Defiance if you need more healing.

Without context of the party it's hard to give equipment suggestions, though boots of the stone are a bit redundant with unflinching (maybe footprints of ahu taka are preferable). Garari Cuirass is kind of mediocre. For tanky armor, reckless brigandine is better, for fast armor devil of caroc BP is better, for really light armor miscreant's leathers are bettre. Also Lord Darryn's Voulge ultimately becomes kind of disappointing since it maxes out at superb, but it's a good weapon for half the game. Probably switch to will breaker or saru sichr after. Use body blows when needed. Consider equipping the slayer's claw when you get it and if not using it, at least cycling to it to upgrade your attacks to energized, and if you do this and maintain spirit frenzy you no longer need interrupting blows.

[thelee]

what part of rekke doesn't feel as good as eder? 

 

in general, i would honestly move away from 2h. i'd dual-wield 4s-recovery weapons (e.g. swords) or pick up monastic unarmed training.

i did this with rekke, and found him to be very effective (with tactical barrage, adventurer/conqueror stance, confident aim). i mostly reserved his fighter resources for a scripted refresh of tactical barrage because uptime on that really helps his overall effectiveness. 2h on a barbarian honestly feels bad to me, except once you get to high levels, even if mathematically the sustained damage is the same as typical 2w slow weapons.

 

in case you're not aware, when it comes to a question of barbarians, accuracy actually gives you increasing returns (at least until high values). it's because carnage only triggers on a hit, and must itself at least graze to actually do anything (if carnage auto-hit, or if it always triggered, you'd get normal diminishing returns). so higher accuracy (adventurer/conq stance, which you don't take) really helps carnage "feel" better.

 

16 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

Because weapon specialization and mastery aren't worth taking in vanilla.

weapon specialization is OK for primarily auto-attackers, but low priority. but yeah on a barbarian multiclass, you get even less value out of weapon specialization (carnage isn't affected).

[kronozord]

29 minutes ago, Shai Hulud said:

Is this with or without community patch? Because weapon specialization and mastery aren't worth taking in vanilla. Combined they give +15% damage for two abilities. You also don't take unbending or savage defiance. You really need one or the other if not both. Wild Sprint seems kind of meh compared to charge, which costs more but is an actual movement ability and can stun. Penetrating Strike is probably a skip. Also barbaric blow / smash are not high priority IMO. Clear Out is okay but not super high priority. Basically if this guy is meant to tank at all he needs more defensive abilities IMO.

Take unbending, vigorous defense -> refreshing defense, accurate carnage, and charge, roughly in that order of priority. Maybe Conqueror Stance. Savage -> Stalwart Defiance if you need more healing.

Without context of the party it's hard to give equipment suggestions, though boots of the stone are a bit redundant with unflinching (maybe footprints of ahu taka are preferable). Garari Cuirass is kind of mediocre. For tanky armor, reckless brigandine is better, for fast armor devil of caroc BP is better, for really light armor miscreant's leathers are bettre. Also Lord Darryn's Voulge ultimately becomes kind of disappointing since it maxes out at superb, but it's a good weapon for half the game. Probably switch to will breaker or saru sichr after. Use body blows when needed. Consider equipping the slayer's claw when you get it and if not using it, at least cycling to it to upgrade your attacks to energized, and if you do this and maintain spirit frenzy you no longer need interrupting blows.

Its the vanilla game, latest version, 5 i think, without any patch.

I dont have a fixed party but my MC is a brawler (fighter/monk - devoted/helwalker) based on the Pallid Knight build and i already used Eder Swashbuckling abilities for most of the game so i wanted something different from this sidekick.

I will respec him with your added input.

Thank you.

[Shai Hulud]

19 minutes ago, kronozord said:

Its the vanilla game, latest version, 5 i think, without any patch.

I dont have a fixed party but my MC is a brawler (fighter/monk - devoted/helwalker) based on the Pallid Knight build and i already used Eder Swashbuckling abilities for most of the game so i wanted something different from this sidekick.

I will respec him with your added input.

Thank you.

I agree with thelee conqueror stance is going to be better than mob stance most of the time. Also definitely want accurate carnage. Take that as your first stance, and id also spend your resources roughly in this priority

Tactical barrage -> spirit frenzy -> refreshing defense, try to keep these up always. Use unbending, charge, and savage defiance as needed.

Not sure about optimal weapons for rekke. Morning stars are generally pretty good, but I did a custom brute recently where I one handed stalker's patience with maiming and mercy strike. When mercy strike procs multiple hits it is especially good because they also get carnage, and it procs on crit. Not sure if you can get rekkes accuracy high enough to crit often, but 14 PER isn't bad so my guess is yes. My guy was wearing cap of the laughingstock also, which may not be ideal in a party. 

Gauntlets of accuracy + blinky as pet when you get him IMO. Before that maybe Nikki or nalvi. 

Once you have some money ring of prosperity fortune goes well for the 15% hit to crit, and would be preferable to both your rings. 

Bone setters torc is decent though hang on to charm of bones vs vessels. And Horns of the Bleak Mother vs beasts.

[Boeroer]

A Brute without a Morning Star isn't a proper Brute imo.

Knockdown targets fortitude, Clear out Targets fortitude, too. A Morning Star lowers fortitude by 25. Spirit Frenzy lowers it by 10. Later with Brute Force not only Knockdown or Clear Out will profit, but every attack that targets deflection will.

The combination of Blood Thirst and Mob Stance is pretty nice. Best to use a hard hitting 2h weapon at that point imo - so Morning Star fits this, too. But imo Lord Darryn's Voulge is also good - so I approve your weapn choice very much.  

With a Morning Star one seldomly needs Penetrating Strike. I wouldn't pick it. 

Wild Sprint: nah

Armored Grace is a must-have for me. I like to combine that with Devil of Caroc Breastplate (already very fast Breastplate due to enchantment) and Helm of the Falcon for more speed. Willbreaker already has more speed - so all in all it will be a fast combination for a 2h-Brute. Also looks rad imo. 

 

 

[kronozord]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

A Brute without a Morning Star isn't a proper Brute imo.

Knockdown targets fortitude, Clear out Targets fortitude, too. A Morning Star lowers fortitude by 25. Spirit Frenzy lowers it by 10. Later with Brute Force not only Knockdown or Clear Out will profit, but every attack that targets deflection will.

The combination of Blood Thirst and Mob Stance is pretty nice. Best to use a hard hitting 2h weapon at that point imo - so Morning Star fits this, too. But imo Lord Darryn's Voulge is also good - so I approve your weapn choice very much.  

With a Morning Star one seldomly needs Penetrating Strike. I wouldn't pick it. 

Wild Sprint: nah

Armored Grace is a must-have for me. I like to combine that with Devil of Caroc Breastplate (already very fast Breastplate due to enchantment) and Helm of the Falcon for more speed. Willbreaker already has more speed - so all in all it will be a fast combination for a 2h-Brute. Also looks rad imo. 

 

 

What upgrades do you recommend for Willbreaker?

I chose wild sprint because of the inspiration and sometimes i miss the mobility, do you think Charge or Leap are worth it?

I had Armored Grace but i forgot to added here, thanks for the warning.

Devils Breastplate i dont have, i imported a save for this run and well payback was on the menu for her. Im going to try reckless bringandine although is so ugly

[Shai Hulud]

8 hours ago, kronozord said:

What upgrades do you recommend for Willbreaker?

I chose wild sprint because of the inspiration and sometimes i miss the mobility, do you think Charge or Leap are worth it?

I had Armored Grace but i forgot to added here, thanks for the warning.

Devils Breastplate i dont have, i imported a save for this run and well payback was on the menu for her. Im going to try reckless bringandine although is so ugly

I forgot armored grace, I was going off the top of my head. Yes take armored grace. Leap is not worth it because it only dazes, also has a 1s cast and 2s recovery whereas charge stuns anyone caught in the path and has a .5s cast (but still a 3s recovery). It's a good ability but not as high priority as some others. I loaded my brute build, these were my choices (the order may be wrong, and ones in parentheses are alternative decent choices)

1 Disciplined Barrage, Frenzy
2 Blooded
3 Arms Bearer (can take Knock Down if you want but I never use it with this build, fast runner also fine)
4 Accurate Carnage, Fighter Stances
5 Confident Aim
6 Thick Skinned
7 One Stands Alone, Tactical Barrage
8 Bloodlust
9 One-handed Style (or other weapon style, Determination, Rapid Recovery, or Bloody Slaughter)
10 Spirit Frenzy, Vigorous Defense
11 Savage Defiance (or bloody slaughter)
12 Charge
13 Interrupting Blows, Unbending
14 Conqueror Stance
15 Armored Grace
16 Unflinching, Refreshing Defense
17 Brute Force
18 Clear Out (or weapon specialization)
19 Blood Thirst, Unbending Shield (or whatever)
20 Stalwart Defiance

Also if you do take Knock Down Mule Kick is a good upgrade. Stalwart Defiance + Unbending Shield is overkill, but this was a solo character, so you may prefer not to take the defiance line, or even the upgraded unbending shield/trunk.

Most important actives are Tactical Barrage, Refreshing Defense, Spirit Frenzy, and Unbending, and the various passives are important, then after that prioritize solid actives like charge, clear out, stalwart defiance, or mule kick

For weapons I was one-handing Stalker's Patience most of the time, but earlier I was dual-wielding rapiers with the +20 accuracy rapier modal. Squid's Grasp and Rannig's Wrath. They have super high accuracy this way and dual-wielding with two-weapon-style and the rapier modal is slightly faster attack speed as one-handing and +8 accuracy comparitively. Rekke can get around 145 accuracy dual-wielding the rapiers, eventually. Also squid's grasp has "attempted parley" that gives an action speed boost when threatened by 3 enemies, so it is great to wield if going into the fray (also it has flank immunity). (should note though conqueror's stance doesn't stack with rapier modal, which is part of why I switched). Lot of stuff is resistant to pierce though so have backups. Morning stars also work, if you want to do that take brute force, if not it isn't as high priority but still decent

Edited May 16, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Boeroer]

10 hours ago, kronozord said:

What upgrades do you recommend for Willbreaker?

I personally value Make them Flinch (25% Miss to Graze)  over the alternative for a Brute. Make them Flinch is great against high defense enemies if you combine it with Gauntlets of Greater Reliability (also 25% Miss to Graze) and Saucco (the food, or better drink, additional 20%) which gives your Brute a whopping 55% miss to graze overall. 
25% interrupts on hit is not that valuable with a Brute because he gets Knockdown, Clear Out and also Interrupting Blows. So tehre's enough interrupting going on already.

The second enchantment is more a matter of taste and party composition really. our Brute doesn't use the shouts it seems, so if your party likes to toss around shaken, frighten and terrified then I guess the DoT from "The Mind Makes Real" is preferrable. Otherwise the 10% crit conversion is cool, too.  

10 hours ago, kronozord said:

I chose wild sprint because of the inspiration and sometimes i miss the mobility, do you think Charge or Leap are worth it?

2 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

Leap is not worth it because it only dazes, also has a 1s cast and 2s recovery whereas charge stuns anyone caught in the path and has a .5s cast (but still a 3s recovery). It's a good ability but not as high priority as some others.

Leap is absolutely worth it because you can use it for free out of combat which makes "sneaking" so much easier. And you can also cancel it mid-air and spare the Rage cost. You will then do no dmg and no effect on landing - but you'll also have no recovery time and paid no Rage, yet you moved.
But you can substitute that with Bounding Boots as well and just spare the ability point if you wish. This last mechanic is a bit cheesy and def. unintended by the devs. Still very nice to have.  Also makes stealing from crates etc. supereasy with no investment in stealth.

The DEX from Wild Sprint is cool - but imo the duration is way too short. I have a unorthodox solution down below when it comes to armor recommendation.

10 hours ago, kronozord said:

Devils Breastplate i dont have, i imported a save for this run and well payback was on the menu for her. Im going to try reckless bringandine although is so ugly

Reckless Brig. i good, especially combined with Mob Stance and lots of engagement. But that would require Hold the Line and Barbaric Shout for the bonus engagement. Then it's a fast option for that type of armor and the added AR enchantment is also nice. But yes, the looks are special and tailored towards a Huana Mataru, not really Rekke I guess.
If it's too painful to watch then maybe check out the Bloody Links (either fast or added AR when bloodied, also raised defenses), Miscreant's Leather (faster than being naked, 1 less AR than your current option) or Magnera's Chain (not faster but defensively a top item).
Coming back to Wild Sprint: if you like the freedom of running around unbothered by disengagement attacks you could also check out Nomad's Brigandine. Firstly: it looks like a normal Brigandine (cool imo).  And then: it not only raises deflection or adds hit-to-graze, its one enchantment "Tactical Withdraw" makes you immune to disengagement attacks. You will still trigger them when breaking engagement, but they will all(!) be converted to misses. Add Boots of Speed and you basically have Wild Sprint permanently for free (without the DEX bonus unfortunately).

Of course you cannot wear the Helm of the Falcon then. I mean how does that look?  I like Death's Maw for Brutes. Not only the looks, but the damage reduction is actually more impactful than the numbers suggest. Damamge maluses mostly work in a multiplicative fashion so it really does something for you (once you stand near a slain enemy). But Thaos' Headdress is also good. 

2 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

4 Accurate Carnage
[...]
16 Refreshing Defense

I almost never use Accurate Carnage because Carnage scales its values with Power Level, even when it procs off of auto-attacks - and the added +5 ACC doesn't mean much later in the game, especially because Carnage cannot critically hit but is limited to miss/graze/hit. This may be different with some mods like Blance Polishing Mod, so my point is only valid for the vanilla game - but also valid when using only the Community Patch.

Refreshing Defense is great and I would very much use it with any melee Brute. You will get hit frequently anyway due to Frenzy - and the refreshing +20 to all defenses buff stacks with individual defense buffs - like +20 to deflection or whatever. If you picked Magnera's Chain you will be a defensive powerhouse (except deflection). Note that defenses have increasing returns - so once you start stacking them up in a serious manner the outcomes become nicer and nicer.

---

By the way: for Unflinching it can be very useful to have alternating health that drops/raises below/above "Hurt" all the time. Because Unflinching only triggers when you are above above Hurt it will get removed when you are under. This can be used to become quasi-immune to all DEX/CON/MIG afflictions: Let's say you get hit by a paralyze at full health: you are resistant due to Unflinching so it gets downgraded to stuck. Now your health drops below "hurt" status and unflinching is removed. Howeverm the affliction already got downgraded so nothing happens with the stuck (it doesn't get raised to paralyze again or whatever). Now you heal back to full: Unflinchng returns, adding resistance again. This resistance will now downgrade stuck to hobbled... and so on. This pairs very well with Unbending because you will get damaged but retrieve the damage as healing over time (so it's like an up and down - perfect).  

 

  

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah you told me about leap cancelling but iirc you seemed to be against it as too cheesy. But I just use bounding boots for that I see little reason to take the ability. Charge can be pretty useful since brutes don't have much CC.

But to each his own, take leap if you like it. There are a lot of abilities I want to take in this build so some things have to be sacrificed.

Accurate carnage may not be as impactful at high levels as low in every fight, but it's PL3 and what else are you going to take that I didn't already? Besides Rekke would have carnage accuracy 107 with the gear I'm wearing plus aware. And without gauntlets of accuracy it's 104. Without accurate carnage it would be 99 and that's with fighting spirit and conqueror stance. In testing "Trial by Fangs and Fur" which this build can easily solo BTW, 99 accuracy has negative adjustment against every enemy. I think it's definitely worth taking because weapon accuracy isn't applied to carnage and carnage has to at least graze to trigger, plus you want to apply effects from blood frenzy or spirit frenzy.

Agree magneras chain is nice, I recommended that for my hierophant build. I usually get it quite a lot later than reckless brigandine or DOC BP though. Bloody Links are nice if you build around staying bloody, like paired with akolas Apex ward or used with a streetfighter. I like the +2 armor enchant. I like the reckless brigandine not just for the speed enchant but mostly the Into The Breach upgrade, which gives bonus armor and damage when hurt. It is usually enough armor to take you into underpenetration territory. More armor than anything else actually. But I recommended using Stalker's Patience, and spear modal gives +1 engagement for an easy tradeoff of 15% stride. So even with just thick skinned you have 4 engagement which gives -15% attack time and recovery speed. Blackened Plate Helm is a solid helm for another engagement if you want but I think 4 is enough. 

Nomads brigandine is synergistic with some builds but I rarely use it due to high recovery and less armor compared to reckless brigandine.

Helm of the falcon is solid choice for 2 handed weapon. And yes it looks better than pretty much every other helm. Speaking of looks I really like The Changeling's Mantle as armor for a barbarian, though it is a very late acquisition. Same recovery time as Miscreant's Leather. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Boeroer]

Speaking of Miscreant's Leather Changeling's Mantle (doesn't touch Rekke, lil' offtopic): with a confused Berserker/Troubadour or Beckoner you can make great use of the Primal Carnage enchantment. Confused Carnage hits against your summoned wyrms will give you more action speed (up to +15%) in any fight. Not gamebreaking or anything but maybe cool for a themed build or something. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Boeroer

[Zhey]

Is refreshing defense or unbending better for survivability?

Also do you think this build is better as a tradeoff of damage and survivability than fighter/paladin? That gets you less speed and hit-to-crit, but more accuracy and defenses.

[Boeroer]

See the other thread.