Good witch build?

[PsyCoil]

So I'm back to real time with pause after two playthroughs with TB. It was fun, but I did miss the faster pace.

I think out of all my builds so far, the only one I haven't fully tried was the Barbarian. I personally could never see the appeal of Frenzy, and Serfan and Konsteanen just didn't cut it for me.

My intention is to play full melee this time, and still have ability to do good AoE damage. So I have tried building a Berserker/Soul Blade, who pretty much gets turned into mash shortly after I activate Frenzy, lol. Are barbarians supposed to be Glass Canons?

Having not played Witch class before, how should I go about building it? Stats allocation? Talents? I'm running with the Community Patch and Berath's Blessings.

[Boeroer]

Berserker's self damage is tricky, scales steeply and needs some experience to be fun. Non-Berserker Barbarians can be quite sturdy if you give them above average CON - because they have a very big base health pool which scales well with the bonus CON over 10 will give. 

Back to the quistion: Furyshaper/Beguiler for the win imo. It's an excellent combination mechanics- and theme-wise. I like the Willbreaker as main weapon. It can lower enemies' Fortitude and Will at the same time - both defenses get targeted by a Witch very often. The Fear Ward is very powerful if used right.

Stats: mediocre MIG, high CON, DEX, PER and INT, mediocre to low RES.

  

[De_jesus]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:32 PM, Boeroer said:

Berserker's self damage is tricky, scales steeply and needs some experience to be fun. Non-Berserker Barbarians can be quite sturdy if you give them above average CON - because they have a very big base health pool which scales well with the bonus CON over 10 will give. 

Back to the quistion: Furyshaper/Beguiler for the win imo. It's an excellent combination mechanics- and theme-wise. I like the Willbreaker as main weapon. It can lower enemies' Fortitude and Will at the same time - both defenses get targeted by a Witch very often. The Fear Ward is very powerful if used right.

Stats: mediocre MIG, high CON, DEX, PER and INT, mediocre to low RES.

  

Furyshaper/Beguiler is primarily a caster, correct?

With a witch build there are two things to think about:
1) managing deflection debuff in the early game (I use eyestrike as a form of defense)
2) casting the ward: Furyshapers can be a challenge early game because casting the Ward can take a little while (7 seconds by default I believe - cast + recovery).

If your barb is your CC or DPS it can take some getting used to because they will be last into the fray, so to speak. Worth it, but something to be mindful of. Once you reach PLIV then you'll pretty much become Eora's manifestation of terror.

I'd make two other recommendations:
1. Start with a single club. Early game accuracy + dropping will + WoT will carry you through some of the early game.
2. I personally like to pair my barb with a priest or wizard due to Interdiction / Dazzling Lights. It drops fortitude and makes blinding much easier and makes fights more manageable. At least until you get Tekehu

Note: Additionally, use your priest (if in the party) to withdraw the ward if it's under attack.

[Boeroer]

After the ACC-buffing via Priest and the usual starting routine (casting Frenzy for example) I will start the fight with Phantom Foes + Secret Horrors. This will give you a lot of focus that you can use later and it drops the Will and Fortitude of the enemies already - while preventing them from using offensive abilities which in turn makes the whole party more safe.

Note that a Wizard with Miasma of Dull-Mimdedness does help immensely with this Witch because that spell debuffs Will into the ground like nothing else. Ideally you can use the Wizard's Phantom with Concelhaut's Draining Touch as weapon. It targets Will and causes Weakened (also Fortitude debuff). It's a nice party synergy.  

Then my Witch will summon the fear ward somewhere into the bulk of the enemies and let my Priest withdraw it immediately (not only when it's under attack - just always; one less thing to worry about). I want my Priest to have more than two spell uses (via items and resting bonuses of possible).

Then I will jump into said bulk (first with the Bounding Boots trick which doesn't use up the per-rest resource of the boots, then later with Leap), do a Barbaric Shout to maybe shake those enemies up which I missed before, but mainly to get +3 engagement. Then I start swinging. When I manage to body-blow an opponent I can use Disintegrate easily. Or I just keep swinging. That's why I prefer the miss-to-graze enchantment on the Willbreaker, combined with Greater Gauntlets of Reliability. That way I can even graze the most defensive enemies with Body Blows.

Because Will is profoundly debuffed already the enemies will get affected by the Fear Ward often - which lets then disengage from me (remember the:+3 engagement from the shout). This will trigger disengagement attacks eventually which adds significant numbers to my dmg output. If things go sideways I have plenty of options with Charm, Dominate (cheap because Beguiler) and other spells to my liking. 

Once Blood Thirst is available the terrify/disengagement combination becomes pretty devastating and allows for either very fast weapon strikes - or very fast casting (focus on the damaging spells that have short casting time but longer recovery).

I think it's versatile and very fun - also because the whole "walking terror" theme is so coherent. 

Imo it's best to use a different char for the club+modal. For me it's almost always Edér as Swashbuckler main tank. That way he not only contributes with tanking but also debuffing (in combination to Persistent Distraction for up to 6 engaged enemies later on). But yes, early on it's a good alternative to a Morning Star.

I think using another char for the club+modal action frees up considerable action time for the Witch and improves the action economy overall. In a party it's often better to use division of work because of better action economy.

Speaking of Priest + Withdraw earlier:

When looking for a fitting Priest for a Witch one might be interested in a Berserker/Priest (I used Wael to counter the low deflection bc of Frenzy - and because crazy Priest of Wael somehow fits). The reason is that a confused Berserker/Priest can cast Withdraw on anything and anyone, giving you the opportunity to take several (remember empower points for additional casts) of the enemies out of the battle without any "saving throw". Withdraw is an auto-hit (because usually a beneficial spell for friends). When confused you can simply cast it on one or more dangerous enemies who get sidelined for a minute or so, deal with the rest and when they come back into the fight their comrades are already gone.

Just an idea though. I played Witch + Berserker/Priest as if they were brothers

Of course Xoti or Vatnir are perfectly fine Priest picks as well.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Boeroer

[De_jesus]

I clearly need to improve how I play a Witch build. This is a phenomenal approach. 

[Shai Hulud]

generic barbarian / soul blade

wild orlan / old vailia / artist

mig 8
con 14
dex 11
per 20
int 19
res 3

Can bump res and move mig/con/dex a bit, exact values aren't that important besides perception and int being maxed. Low might is fine because witches get tons of +damage (blooded, one stands alone, bloody slaughter, draining whip), and mediocre dex or even low dex is fine because you get lots of +action speed (frenzy, bloodlust, blood thirst). Getting good deflection with a barbarian is difficult and not really necessary given their decent healing so I usually don't bother with resolve, and we can fix will with cipher's iron will, but you could bump it up and dump might and dex some more. Borrowed Instinct and psychovampiric shield do give +25 deflection and +20 other defenses so even at 3 with frenzy's -10 you won't be *too* squishy, particularly with a medium to high CON. 

Anyway, I'd pick mostly passives mentioned previously on barbarian side, active abilities you want are stalwart defiance and either blood storm or spirit frenzy. Spirit frenzy is probably better in vanila. The upgrade spirit tornado is okay, but it will keep you from getting blood thirst if you also pick stalwart defiance. On cipher side pick hammering thoughts, iron will, the empty soul, echoing horrors, whispers of treason, psychovampiric shield, borrowed instinct, phantom foes, secret horrors, and body attunement. Main two spells are PVS and BI. Keep these up always, debuff will and deflection with PVS. Phantom foes is a good opener, secret horrors useful if you need to debuff fortitude. Recall Agony is good on bosses. Take Ancestor's Memory if you're in a party, also pain block and echoing shield and maybe tactical meld. Disintegration is sometimes useful but this is a melee focused build not a spellcaster.

Basically you use cipher side to stack accuracy and defenses while using barbarian side to stack action speed, damage, and carnage. It's a good combination for melee characters which is why we take soul blade, because soul annihilation is fantastic. Then you hit things, build up focus and use soul annihilation. 

Can use morningstars to debuff fortitude, this is useful if you take brute force on barbarian side which is a valid strategy, though personally I tend to target deflection and skip brute force. Any high damage melee weapons are good. I like Squid's grasp in the offhand for attempted parley (+20% action speed when threatened by 3+) and flanking immunity, in main hand put whatever. Lot of good sabres like Aldris Blade of Captain Crow, Animancer's Energy Blade, Tarn's Respite, etc. Couple nice flails, sungrazer, sun and moon, ball and chain. The club kapana taga is also good and a tankier substitute for squid's grasp, also debuffs will though you rarely need it. Main thing with weapons is make sure you cover different damage types and have good penetration. A morningstar will do that for you as it has good penetration and does crush/pierce, but if you like dual wielding you can have piercing weapons in one slot, slashing in another, crushing in the third (take arms bearer or wear giftbearer cloth). And fists actually outdamage most of the weapons in the game if you take monastic unarmed training, particularly if you drink potions of ascension during battle, and have penetration about the same as most mythic weapons. Can also be used in conjunction with tuotilo's palm to get dual wielding and weapon and shield. 

Important gear. Nothing in particular, though favor items that stack accuracy or hit to crit like ring of prosperity's fortune, the pet blinky, etc. For helms cap of the laughingstock can be very useful, horns of the bleak mother vs beasts, and rekvu's casque against things that will interrupt you (you have to take an injury, just have someone kill you with a corrode spell for acute rash or step on a caltrops trap for wrenched knee). I like wearing robes, particularly high harbinger robes as these give bonus damage and action speed (at the cost of making you squishier). Devil of Caroc Breastplate is really good tradeoff for decent armor with low recovery, and devil's due will proc a lot giving you a constant stream of healing. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Shai Hulud

[Boeroer]

Spirit Tornado in the vanilla game is kind of a trap choice. Reason is: Spirit Frenzy applies the Staggered affliction to all(!) of your hit rolls (weapon attacks, shouts, spells, Carnage, you name it). With Spirit Tornado this is suddenly restricted to your initial weapon attack only (no Carnage, no spells, no shouts etc.)

  

Edited April 8, 2023 by Boeroer

[Shai Hulud]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:30 AM, Boeroer said:

Spirit Tornado in the vanilla game is kind of a trap choice. Reason is: Spirit Frenzy applies the Staggered affliction to all(!) of your hit rolls (weapon attacks, shouts, spells, Carnage, you name it). With Spirit Tornado this is suddenly restricted to your initial weapon attack only (no Carnage, no spells, no shouts etc.)

  

So spirit frenzy is bugged...didn't know that. I play mostly with BPM on now and pretty sure it doesn't work like that

I still like blood frenzy though, does very large amounts of damage

[Boeroer]

5 hours ago, Shai Hulud said:

So spirit frenzy is bugged...didn't know that.

It's the last upgrade "Spirit Tornado" which is not working as the rest (in the vanilla game). Blood Frenzy/Blood Storm and Spirit Frenzy apply their effects to all the character's crit rolls (Blood Frenzy) or hit+crit rolls (Spirit Frenzy). Only Spirit Tornado doesn't.

Blood Frenzy didn't use to, too - but then when I asked the devs (when terhe was still patching going on) why Spirit Frenzy applies to all rolls and Blood Frenzy only to the initial weapon hit they changed it to match Spirit Frenzy. And maybe forgot Spirit Tornado (which I didn't notice to have the same limitation at the time)...?

[Bezhukov]

The thing about Eyestrike is that meleers typically have high Fort and Fort Blind is common elsewhere if you want it (Tekuhu/Aloth Chill Fog for instance).

Nice thing about Phantom Foes apart from huge radius is that it gives you Flanked on meleers but targets Will. Rogue Blind is Reflex so if you can apply that AoE via Mortars or Blights it makes Phantom Foes less necessary, though its Flanked condition can’t be removed by Inspiration.

Likewise targeting Fort on Casters/Ranged threats works well but hard to get benefit of Eyestrike AoE there which makes long cast time inefficient. I actually will run (Contemplative) Xoti out and punch them into melee range (where Tekehu’s Chill Fog Blinds them) after initial Dire Blessing since Monks have good mobility and her main attack targets Fort (and gets bonus Accuracy from Dance). More things for Witch Carnage to hit when it needs to refuel.

Frenzy Ward preserves Stealth so is much quicker to get set up and Tenuous Grasp can be spammed with Community Patch and has nice duration. -3 PLs, -20 Will, -5 Deflection, and big malus to Hostile Duration/AoE (incloming and outgoing) on the biggest threat(s) makes Horrors less necessary. Again targeting Will vs melee threats is solid and there are other sources of Frighten/Terrify if you want it (Shaken from Tenuous Grasp gets the -3 PL already) including Ward obviously.

Fractured Volition is good follow up due to long duration and ability to power thru Con Affliction Resistance. Weakened vs Will is relatively rare effect and DEX/CON is good fit with RES/INT debuff on Grasp.

I don’t like the -damage modals on Witch because I want to get the most Focus I can out of the casting downtime and Club is Crush only which can end up underpen vs some foes. Barb that spends most its time attacking wants to be in thick of fight but Beguiler/Furyshaper wants to get back to casting.

Iron Will at lvl 3 instead of Eyestrike makes up for Furyshaper downside since Cipher gets +15.

Edited September 26 by Bezhukov