Sabre mechanics

[pmmeyourbuilds]

Ok this probably is a stupid question, but the inherent sabre bonus damage is additive, not multiplicative right?

The in game tooltips definitely seem to suggest so, but on the other hand i've read like a hundred comments around here and on reddit that it's actually higher base damage (and would thus be multiplicative with everything else). I would assume a patch changed this, but couldn't find any info on this, hence the question.

 

Second question, somewhat related: it seems that Bittercut is widely considered the best 1 handed weapon for damage, mostly because of spirit of decay working on it (even if it hits against slash DR). From what i've read though spirit of decay seems to give an additive bonus here. Still really good, but it seems to me that both speed and wounding should generally be better enchantments than bittercut's corrode thing. Wounding not only is an extra lash but it scales with might, i.e. with high might it's kind of like a 40% lash really, and we all know speed bonuses are busted (unless you're already at 0 recovery ofc).

Am I missing something? Bittercut just gets 20% from spirit of decay and that's that right?

[Boeroer]

Yes, it is additive. As most damage bonuses in the game are. Those bonuses (also crit dmg bonus, Sneak Attack, weapon quality bonus and so on) are always calculated with the base dmg of the weapon. And that's always the damage of an unenchanted, plain old sabre: 13-19 (or average 16).

So "sharp", being a 20% dmg bonus will add 16*0.2 = 3.2 damage. No matter how unique or superb or whatver the sabre is. It's always claculated with that base damage of the weapon type. 

Bittercut is the best sabre (not best 1 handed weapon) for most players because it has two damage types (which is corrode/slash) which circumvents many DR issues with slash-resistant or -immune foes. And as you said, it also profits from Spirit of Decay (+20% dmg) because it is considered an acid attack - even if the slash damage gets applied. So you can add another 3.2 dmg. It also has some nice spellbindings on top. A nice little synergy is that if you took Spirit of Decay already you can put a corrosive lash onto Bittercut and then that will lift the lash by 20% as well, taking it from 10% to 30% lash, which is a neat little bonus for taking Spirit of Decay, too.

However - Bittercut is not the best 1-handed weapon for plain auto attacks' dps - because like you already said "speed" and "wounding" are potentially more potent enchantments. since higher attack speed and also a (MIG-scaling) lash are multiplicative boosts to dps. Look at Drawn in Spring or speed weapons like Sword of Daenysis and so on.

But Bittercut is the 1 handed weapon with the highest (average) physical dmg per attack (bc. of sharp + Spirit of Decay and dual damage). This makes it interesting for classes that have strong Full Attack abilities that are limited per encounter. So they want to dish out the most damage they can with those abilities. Fast weapons with higher dps but lower dmg per attack are not ideal for this. 

Abilites like that are:
Rogue's Strikes, Heart of Fury & Barbaric Blow (Barb), Flames of Devotion (Paladin) and so on. You get the idea. Using those abilities frequently you might want a weapon that gives you more bang for your buck. It's of course possible to do those strikes with Bittercut + 2. weapon and then switch to Drawn in Spring + Sword of Daenysis for higher dps autoattacks or so.  

Also Ciphers might want it because their focus gain does depend on direct physical dmg + lash (not wounding lash though - this doesn give focus). Bittercut makes it easier to deal with high DR, has two 20% dmg bonuses which also help with DR. Speed is also great for a Cipher though.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Boeroer

[pmmeyourbuilds]

54 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, it is additive. As most damage bonuses in the game are. Those bonuses (also crit dmg bonus, Sneak Attack, weapon quality bonus and so on) are always calculated with the base dmg of the weapon. And that's always the damage of an unenchanted, plain old sabre: 13-19 (or average 16).

So "sharp", being a 20% dmg bonus will add 16*0.2 = 3.2 damage. No matter how unique or superb or whatver the sabre is. It's always claculated with that base damage of the weapon type. 

Just to be exact: pretty sure the 13-19 range is actually after sharp? The base damage of a "plain old sabre" is actually 11-16, but it will deal 13-19 without other bonuses. If you do have other bonuses they scale off of the 11-16 range though, am i right?

[Boeroer]

You are right. I quickly looked up the base damage in the wiki (because it has been a long time since I played PoE for the last time). The wiki unfortunaltely lists the damage with "Sharp" included and not the base dmg, sorry for the confusion. 

[pmmeyourbuilds]

Ok thanks for clearing it up. Wonder if this was changed by a patch at some point because i swear i've read like a milion old threads where people referred to sabres as having higher base damage.

[Boeroer]

I guess they just didn't kow better. The Wiki is misleading after all. Or maybe it was different in the beta. I didn't play the beta but joined the game at release - and afaik at least since release it was always like this.

One thing that indeed raises base damage is Confident Aim (Fighter). So basically the MIN base dmg gets raised by 20% - which is like a ~8% averaged base damage increase.  

Edited February 8, 2022 by Boeroer