Having trouble deciding between some class options for my next run. Which of these is the strongest/the most appealing to you guys?

[squinklesquat]

I'm playing on POTD upscaled with Community Patch + Balance Polishing mod. Since I'm playing with these mods, single class is looking a lot more appealing because of the buffs to summons and late tier spells. I'd appreciate some advice on how you would build some of these too if possible.

1. Fury Druid SC  or Fury Tempest MC
2. Ancient Druid SC 
3. Mindstalker (Debonaire + Beguiler charm build) or Mindstalker soul blade build
4. Any fun Chanter SC or MC build, maybe a beckoner summon build

If you guys have played any of these, which one was the most fun and how strong was it? I think I have a pretty good understanding on how to build a SC fury (Deltro's cage + Darryn's Voulge big AOEs) and SC Ancient Druid (Spine of Thicket Green, lots of DOTs and summons) but I'm not too familiar with the other options and would be interested in learning more on how to build those. I'm super indecisive and would love to hear some opinions. Thanks!

Edited September 5, 2021 by squinklesquat

[Faraleth]

from these I played only an Assassin+Soul Blade Mindstalker. absolute beast damage and a fun class to play, I think my favourite character to play so far

[Boeroer]

Berserker/Troubadour for the win!

(don't mind the monk abilities in the action bar - it was a test character who was created with the console).

That Berserker/Troubadour kills his own skeletons "accidentally" with Carnage and triggers Blood Thirst because of it (no need to actively target your skeletons, they will get killed by Carnage alone because they don't scale with level = very weak).

He also uses the Twin Eels great sword which not only heals him but also the enemies (bc. he is confused) which is a little fun gimmick here (he won't die from Berserker Frenzy but enemies get healed, too - just less than the dmg they receive).

If you pick another weapon (Amra, Chromoprismatic Staff or Lord Darryn's Voulge should be real nice for example) and use a pet gives 20 health on kill (there are several) you will also not die easily but the enemies will fall much faster - because no healing for them. 

Of course this also works with a Chanter in the party who summons skeletons and another Berserker/something or SC Berserker. All sorts of "on-kill" effects are great with this.

---

Debonaire/Beguiler is nice thematically - but since the Cipher doesn't have a lot of friendly fire spells that could profit from the Debonaire's crit conversion against charmed enemies it's mechanically better to have a Beguiler in the party and a Debonaire/Wizard. Wizards have plenty of friendly fire nukes - and if the Beguiler starts to charm via Ring Leader then the Debonaire/Wizard can prepare to haul a Shadowflame or whatever at those charmed enemies, giving him 100% crit conversion for all hit rolls. Also works with a Chanter + charming invocation + Debonaire/Wizard of course. 

Where Debonaire/Beguiler is indeed very nice is once you get Soul Ignition and later Disintegration. You can cast those on charmed enemies (and get the crit) and they won't even flip back to hostile.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Boeroer

[Faraleth]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Berserker/Troubadour for the win!

If you pick another weapon (Amra, Chromoprismatic Staff or Lord Darryn's Voulge should be real nice for example) and use a pet gives 20 health on kill (there are several) you will also not die easily but the enemies will fall much faster - because no healing for them.

2 questions:

• why troubadour and not bellower beckoner? thats even more and weaker skeletons to kill
• how does Amra's Frenzy procs works with a Barbarian?

Edited September 6, 2021 by Faraleth

[Boeroer]

I guess you mean Beckoner, not Bellower?

Generally speaking a Beckoner and also a Skald (lots of crits) work fine as well. I chose a Troubadour merely because of  convenience/mircomanagement lazyness:

- Beckoner's skeletons do scale with level and are harder to kill than the skeletons from Many Lives Pass By - at least at higher levels.

- I'd have to micromanage the Beckoner's skeletons. They don't run on AI. The ones that appear after the initial skeletons get killed do have AI control though (which is good in this case). I personally found the added micro annoying for this particular character. 

- Beckoner has to invest casting time (and potentially recovery) for summoning his skeletons that can't be used for smashing things. His summons' duration is shorter than Troubadour's. Troubadour can summon more skeletons on the fly via chant + Brisk Recitation: comparable amount of skeletons but way less micro and time "wasted" with actual summoning invocations.

- If you summon 6 Beckoner skeletons it often happens that you kill several of them (or sometimes even all of them) with the same Carnage attack. This means that you "wasted" all the nice skellies for just one Blood Thirst proc. Blood Storm will get extended several times and you'll also get the healing effect per kill though so it's not too bad. It just feels better to not have them die all at once.

- Troubadour summons a skeleton every 3 secs which leads to a constant but fast enough stream of "fuel" for Blood Thirst and the other kill effects. Ideally with every attack only one skeleton dies. By the way, check out Amra's Riven Gore: since Many Lives Skeletons have very low health they will get destroyed on the spot. 

Of course this is only most convenient and "better" once you get Many Lives Pass By. Before that I guess it doesn't really matter that much because you will have to manually summon creatures anyway (don't need to be skeletons by the way, they are just the weakest summons and Ancient Brittle Bones is so nice). Beckoner can summon more at once, Troubadour can summon them more often and they stay longer, Skald will get a lot of phrases from crits against the skellies and thus can summon more often etc.

I guess it would need testing which one is the perfect fit for one's taste.

I just liked Troubadour because I could completely automate this character that way. In the end it's just using Frenzy at the start of battle and doing lightning fast auto-attacks.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Faraleth said:

• how does Amra's Frenzy procs works with a Barbarian?

It stacks with the Barb's Frenzy.  

I would suggest the "on kill" variant of course in this case. 

Also Amra's "Carnage" stacks with Barb's Carnage which kills those summons around you even faster. 

Also with Amra I would suggest to use Bleeding Cuts once you get Blood Thirst. 

 

[squinklesquat]

That blood thirst skeleton combo looks crazy. I think I'll go for a Berserker/Fury Tempest and bring along a Chanter to summon the skeletons. Really excited to try it out, thanks for all the tips and advice!

[Boeroer]

I just tried a variant: Berserker/Devoted with Mob Stance and Amra. It's... really wild. Mob Stance gets triggered from every skeleton-kill as well it seems.  

Edit: ah - it's more that a direct kill of an enemy triggers Mob Stance which then targets a skeleton (bc confused) which gets instakilled which triggers another Mob Stance attack and so on... all those doing Carnage and Riven Gore (if they crit). 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Boeroer