Turn Based Mode party composition for speedier combat?

[cloud9rc]

So it's been a little more than year since I last played Deadfire. Beat the game originally on RTwP/PotD, but I only tinkered with TB mode for a few hours before being burntout. I'm looking for some advice towards builds or party compositions that would help speed up combat. I remembered TB mode dragging a bit with trivial fights and large mobs of weaker foes, so I'm looking to add some AoE that'll hopefully clear them faster. 

For my two frontline, I was thinking of two multiclassed characters having some mix of Barbarian (Carnage AoE), Chanter (CC, AoE dmg/heal, utility), Cipher (Soul Blade for fun/roleplay), and Paladin (Bleakwalker for roleplay, also for Aura buffs, heal, dmg). Was thinking Berserker/Troubadour, or is this not as good in TB?

For my backline I haven't quite figured it out fully yet. I was thinking of a single class Wizard (AoE dmg/cc, either no sub or blood mage), a Druid (Healing, AoE dmg, Lifegiver), and then maybe a bow (Frostseeker) using Ranger/Rogue multi. I wasn't a big fan of Ascendant Ciphers in TB mode when I tried it, was I wrong in my assessment or is there an effective way to play ranged/caster Ciphers in turn based mode?

Anything notably good or bad about these choices and their available skills for TB? I'm open to any other build/composition suggestions or advice. Looking to min/max a little bit because while I enjoyed TB and having the combat be a bit slower due to TB, I didn't quite enjoy the trivial fights and fights with many weak mobs take so much longer. Thanks for any help!

[FleetFeet]

I've been playing TB and wholeheartedly agree that copious amounts AOE to quickly dispatch mobs is key to enjoying it.  Fights can feel like they drag on forever without.  Here are a few tips that I've picked up from the forums here:

Wizard with absolute maxed out Int(Infuse with Vital Essence great here) and Pull of Eora to cover as big an area for as long as possible. Makes it super easy to get most enemies clumped together for nuking.  I usually give my tank Upright Captains Belt for immunity to the pull effect to make it easy to keep them positioned just outside the friendly fire AOE zone. 

In my latest run I have Tekehu as SC druid and have found him indispensable.  I have him wearing Deltros cage (+2 electricity PL) and armed with Hand Mortar(upgraded with blinding smoke) + Fire in the hole. As I learned from Boeroer, those hand mortars are a fantastic combined with Avenging Storm. as both the aoe (which is foe only) + blinding smoke trigger bolts from avenging storm this along with his unique foe only aoe spells makes him great for dealing with mobs. You can also get avenging storm from the helm heaven's cacophony(1 per rest) and scrolls(need 13 arcana). 

Whispers of the Endless Paths(with high Int) is also great for mobs. I have a SC Monk that uses it to great effect. Not hard to get Int north of 30 with DoMP/food/gear which makes the AOE very sizable.  Stunning surge refunds the Mortification on crit, and with such a large aoe and with mobs bunched together very easy to get that refund. Skyward kick is a blast as it hits everyone in the aoe cone. Once you get it, Whispers of the Wind offers several ways to obliterate mobs esp when combined with resonant touch. For example the aoe of whispers of the endless paths will get applied for each jump giving you many stacks of resonant touch and since it is a melee weapon it can trigger heartbeat drumming and swift flurry.  For fun, you can also use with the hand mortars and avenging storm as described above(thank you Boeroer).  Careful, it may melt your video card along with those mobs. 

This may feel like cheese, but you can get infinite re-use out of Necklaces of Fireball once you get two of them. If you stack two partially used necklaces they refill back to 8 uses.  Give 1 or two to non-spell casters to help clean up mobs as needed. Check the wiki, easy to get two of them early on (one from the unique item vendor in Port Maje with the particular Berath's blessing ). Again, thanks Boeroer!

I 've found Bloodmage subclass especially fantastic in TB as blood sacrifice (along with many buffs) are free actions. You can hit blood sacrifice multiple times during a single turn if needed to get whatever particular spell level you need.  I don't pump might(modifies blood sacrifice) and Voidward ring helps here.  Just make sure you have adequate healing queued up(either as a multi or from companions). I usually multi as a Paladin and take Exulted Endurance and the upgrade Greater Lay on Hands. Given the action economy of TB, I find the robust inspiration worth the extra zeal(and having high Int to extend duration of robust helps make up for the lower might). Of course, SC bloodmage is perfectly fine but to get most out of BM make sure you are proactive with the healing so you can hit BS as much as needed making it easy to get those aoe spells back each round.    

 

[FleetFeet]

Forgot to mention regarding cipher, unfortunately I found them a bit underwhelming on TB.  Love ciphers with RTwP but to me their fast(er) cast abilities are under-powered when translated to the action economy of TB. I do wish their buffs were free actions but since most are also debuffs I can see why they were not made so. With that in mind, I do think soul blade multi is a good way to go. Works great with Whispers of the Endless paths as you can apply soul annihilation in an aoe and hack through mobs that much faster. If you are considering playing with the community patch, you could go Mindstalker(soul blade/trickster) and take advantage of extra focus gen from riposte combined with mirror image/LDI.  This only really works well with community patch thou since misses are far less frequent and CP changes riposte to trigger 25% on miss OR graze.

Oh and regarding Troubadour, haven't played with on TB too much but don't think it's a terrible choice depending on how you play it. iirc, brisk recitation is a dead end as you still only chant one phrase per turn but if you don't use it and take advantage of the extra linger I believe you can hold 3 chants simultaneously in TB.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong on how brisk recitation works in TB.  

[cloud9rc]

Thank you for such a wonderfully detailed reply @FleetFeet! I've been thinking still about my party composition and your comments, haven't started the run yet. At this point, I'm strongly considering throwing Fighter (Black Jacket) into the mix too for the weapon dmg type switch up versatility. AFAIK Whispers of the Endless Path should still proc on each hit from the Fighter's Clear Out skill, unless that interaction has been nerfed/taken out. I was also hoping that Soul Annihilation would be able to do big damage via WotEP's AoE. Barbarian's carnage doesn't work with WotEP afaik, but the raw buffs + Spirit Tornado are still interesting to me.

It's been hard trying to finalize my frontline. I think for sure I want a Paladin (Healing, Aura, tanky w/ decent DPS) and a Chanter (CC, lots of general utility) in the mix. I definitely am interested in one frontline dual-wielding something like Sun and Moon + Magran's Favor or Sungrazer/Watcher's Blade/Modwyr/Aldris Blade/Sasha's Singing Scimitar?/etc., while the other is a 2Hander using Whispers of the Endless Path and some other 2Hs as backup weapons (if single target or dmg type switch is needed). The other frontline classes I'm juggling right now is Barbarian (Berserker for Frenzy/Spirit Tornado, Carnage, and general self buffs), Fighter (Black Jacket for 2H free weapon switches, Clear Out+WotEP interactions, seems generally tanky), and Cipher (Soul Blade for AoE Soul Annihilation via WotEP)

For the dual-wield, I think I most likely want a Paladin since in turn based Flames of Devotion should proc twice on each hit. I remember using a dual wield pistol Kind Wayfarer in Turn Based a year ago and it worked as such, giving a double heal with each FoD trigger. Either I'll use a Kind Wayfarer again for the double FoD heal proc, or maybe a Bleak Walker for a big dmg burst. I could subclass it with Barbarian to have the Paladin's Mental Fortress block Berserker's confused ailment from Frenzy, and have the most value out of Carnage (since it won't proc w/ WotEP). I was also thinking of Chanter or Cipher as the other multi here as well.

For the 2Hander, I was thinking mainly of using Fighter for the reasons listed above (Clear Out+WotEP, Black Jacket free switch). I could multi it with a Soul Blade Cipher for WotEP and Soul Annihilation. Chanter seems like it could be a good fit too. Barbarian seems less so due to the redundancy of WotEP and Carnage.

Hard to decide.. would love to hear any input if anyone has some experience with any of these classes in turn based and melee.

For the backline I feel more or less set on what I want to do. Druid, Ranger/Rogue multi, and Wizard (Blood Mage).

For Druid I was planning on running it with the advice I was given regarding the Avenging Storm and Hand Mortar (w/ Blinding Smoke) + Fire in the Hole interaction. For subclass I was thinking Lifegiver so I have another source of healing, plus still have access to the offensive lightning spells. I heard that over time healing wasn't as effective in TB, but I still like having secondary healing (ie. no Fury subclass). For Ranger/Rogue, I simply wanted to have an archer because I like them thematically and aesthetically (probably will be using Frostseeker, unless there are some other notable suggestions). For the Wizard, it'll be the same old spamming AoE spells via Blood Mage. I considered multiclassing it with a Paladin (Shieldbearer of St Elga) for some self healing/tankiness, but I feel like it'd be more fun not having the loss in power level and Lv8/9 spells.

I'd love to hear any final suggestions or recommendations! I feel pretty happy so far with my plans, just trying to finalize the frontliners of my party for TB. I'd love to hear from @Boeroer too if he has the time, since I've always found his comments very insightful in this forum. Thanks for all the help!

Edited March 11, 2020 by cloud9rc

[Boeroer]

Thank you. I didn't chime in because I have near to 0 experience with the Turn Based Mode.

 

@FleetFeet's statements and your plan sound pretty convincing so I approve your messages.

 

[FleetFeet]

9 hours ago, cloud9rc said:

Thank you for such a wonderfully detailed reply @FleetFeet! I've been thinking still about my party composition and your comments, haven't started the run yet. At this point, I'm strongly considering throwing Fighter (Black Jacket) into the mix too for the weapon dmg type switch up versatility. AFAIK Whispers of the Endless Path should still proc on each hit from the Fighter's Clear Out skill, unless that interaction has been nerfed/taken out. I was also hoping that Soul Annihilation would be able to do big damage via WotEP's AoE. Barbarian's carnage doesn't work with WotEP afaik, but the raw buffs + Spirit Tornado are still interesting to me.

I can confirm that WotEP and Clear Out still will proc mutiple hits and the AOE also does work with SA. It also works with Mule Kick(strong!) and Penetrating strike.  Not sure about Barbarian.

It's been hard trying to finalize my frontline. I think for sure I want a Paladin (Healing, Aura, tanky w/ decent DPS) and a Chanter (CC, lots of general utility) in the mix. I definitely am interested in one frontline dual-wielding something like Sun and Moon + Magran's Favor or Sungrazer/Watcher's Blade/Modwyr/Aldris Blade/Sasha's Singing Scimitar?/etc., while the other is a 2Hander using Whispers of the Endless Path and some other 2Hs as backup weapons (if single target or dmg type switch is needed). The other frontline classes I'm juggling right now is Barbarian (Berserker for Frenzy/Spirit Tornado, Carnage, and general self buffs), Fighter (Black Jacket for 2H free weapon switches, Clear Out+WotEP interactions, seems generally tanky), and Cipher (Soul Blade for AoE Soul Annihilation via WotEP)

For the dual-wield, I think I most likely want a Paladin since in turn based Flames of Devotion should proc twice on each hit. I remember using a dual wield pistol Kind Wayfarer in Turn Based a year ago and it worked as such, giving a double heal with each FoD trigger. Either I'll use a Kind Wayfarer again for the double FoD heal proc, or maybe a Bleak Walker for a big dmg burst. I could subclass it with Barbarian to have the Paladin's Mental Fortress block Berserker's confused ailment from Frenzy, and have the most value out of Carnage (since it won't proc w/ WotEP). I was also thinking of Chanter or Cipher as the other multi here as well.

For the 2Hander, I was thinking mainly of using Fighter for the reasons listed above (Clear Out+WotEP, Black Jacket free switch). I could multi it with a Soul Blade Cipher for WotEP and Soul Annihilation. Chanter seems like it could be a good fit too. Barbarian seems less so due to the redundancy of WotEP and Carnage.

Hard to decide.. would love to hear any input if anyone has some experience with any of these classes in turn based and melee.

 All sound solid to me. Black Jacket is very strong in TB as you can attack with DW or 2H and switch back to the defense of W&S for the best of both. I found it a tad too tedious for my taste but a huge advantage there. One thing I KNOW Boeroer will approve of is getting a morningstar mixed in there as that backup 2H. The modal debuffs Fortitude by 25 for 2 -3 rounds on turn-based( it's modified by Int). That's a huge 25 acc boost for the party for all abilities that target Fort (as so many do). You can apply it to multiple targets with Clear Out. Barbarians also have the Brute Force passive(lvl 6?) that will let their melee target the lower of Deflection or Fort. If you use Willbreaker you'll also be applying a stacking Will debuff which can pair really well with Cipher as many of their abilities target Will and they have a passive for additional +10 acc on WIll attacks. Great synergy for a Brute,  Witch, or Psyblade.  

That said, have you considered Tactician? There's definitely considerably more involved in getting Brilliant set-up but it's really strong when you do. With a BM in the party you'll be able to cast unlimited Chill Fogs(you can even stack them on top of each other) and Pull of Eoras making it fairly easy to keep the enemies flanked and you not. TB also helps a lot here. As an example, I was just experimenting with a frontline Crusader(Tactician/Kind Wayfarer) who could tank very well while spamming unlimited AOE Mule Kick, Penetrating Strike, Clear-out, and healing FoDs using WotEP.  She wore Patinated Plate with the Constant Rebound and +2 armor upgrades and WotEP with the offensive Parry upgrade. If you hit her 30% to be stunned, if you miss her you get riposted and Dazed!  Even with the much higher Graze chance on TB this was still very effective.  You can mitigate Tactical Dilemma  with Fearless and Mental Fortress(or gear). Anyway, I digress but point is Tactician worth considering. 

For the backline I feel more or less set on what I want to do. Druid, Ranger/Rogue multi, and Wizard (Blood Mage).

For Druid I was planning on running it with the advice I was given regarding the Avenging Storm and Hand Mortar (w/ Blinding Smoke) + Fire in the Hole interaction. For subclass I was thinking Lifegiver so I have another source of healing, plus still have access to the offensive lightning spells. I heard that over time healing wasn't as effective in TB, but I still like having secondary healing (ie. no Fury subclass). For Ranger/Rogue, I simply wanted to have an archer because I like them thematically and aesthetically (probably will be using Frostseeker, unless there are some other notable suggestions). For the Wizard, it'll be the same old spamming AoE spells via Blood Mage. I considered multiclassing it with a Paladin (Shieldbearer of St Elga) for some self healing/tankiness, but I feel like it'd be more fun not having the loss in power level and Lv8/9 spells.

Sounds good. I've always gone the Sheildbearer/BM route but with a Pally, Lifegiver, AND Chanter you are more than covered on the healing. I'll prob try the SC route if I get another play-thru. Def get the Voidward ring and consider Ring of Greater Regeneration and Lethandria's Devotion shield for some extra healing thrown in.  

I'd love to hear any final suggestions or recommendations! I feel pretty happy so far with my plans, just trying to finalize the frontliners of my party for TB. I'd love to hear from @Boeroer too if he has the time, since I've always found his comments very insightful in this forum. Thanks for all the help!