Hellwalker/Sharpshooter vs Devoted/Sharpshooter

[Faytte]

Playing a perception/dex/might ranged character in a playthrough and I'm curious what will result in better damage?  

 

My thoughts originally around devoted was to maximize the amazing accuracy of Ranger and push my crit higher. Since 1 accuracy seems to equal 1% crit chance (as long as you can roll a crit), my thoughts are...

 

Devoted seems to offer

• +2 pen all the time
• +25% crit damage. Is this treated like lash damage when it comes up. I.E are crits multiplicative or additive bonuses?
• +5 perception (+5% crit rate?), 50% Graze to hit, 25% hit to critical hit
• +10 accuracy through conq stance (+10% crit rate?)
• Armored Grace for some extra attack speed (not sure how effective this is)
• Weapon Mastery & Weapon Specialization for 15% total additive damage.
• Penetrating Strike since we don't use much Discipline, which is +25% damage and 4 extra pen.

Hell Walker

• +10 might when you eventually reach wounds cap (more on this later), for 30% additive damage, starting at 9%.
• +30% Action Speed (15% from Lightning Strikes, 15% from Quick).
• +15% Lightning Lash Damage
• +6% to 20% Fire Lash Damage
• +3 to +10 Intelligence: Doesn't much help damage but less spending resources on buffs is worth noting. 
• +3 to +12 accuracy via Dance of Death (this takes time)
• +2 pen and +15 % additive damage from Tenacious (This costs Wounds).

 

My main concern with Hell Walker is ramp up. It seems playing ranged it might take a while (21 seconds ish) to get up to max wounds, and any use of Thunderous blows will drop me down (unless Enduring Dance is never broken, which would be keen). 

 

How do these stack up to someone that doesn't know the inner workings of the damage mechanics? How would devoted work vs hellwalker before hellwalker is at full wounds and after wards? How powerful are 'hit to crit' conversions and crit builds vs elemental lash builds? Does the fact that ranged monk not having a spendable ranged damage resource hurt it with this kind of build?

[thundercleese]

I've played a Sharpshooter/Devoted using Frostseeker; it was very effective but as I took very few active skills I got bored and abandoned it lol. It is a strong combo as you have permanent +2 pen, though you will want to take a weapon with dual damage types so you're not screwed by immunities. Crit damage is just additive with might etc. Armoured grace reduces the armour recovery penalty, and the amount depends on the type of armour. The math is a little wierd, but it's essentially the same bonus as Cutthroat Cosmo/Abraham, which it stacks with. So if you take armoured grace and the pet, you can have 0 armour penalty with Devil of Caroc Breastplate, which is nice. If you wear a robe it does nothing.

 

For Monk there's not much more to add. If you're concerned about the ramp time you might consider Nalpasca. You lose 10 might but gain a constant source of wound generation - just watch out for arcane dampener!

 

Monk should, strictly speaking, be stronger. However wound generation as a ranged char is always going to be a bit slow. Devoted has more accuracy and hit to crit, but doesn't get the lashes. So if you are planning to use something with on crit effects, devoted may be better. Otherwise monk if you can manage your wounds well.

[Boeroer]

Crit damage is additive.

 

Unfortunately 15% speed and 15% speed is not necessarily 30% speed.  I think with +5 DEX + Swift Strikes it fits. But generally attack speed mechanics are kind of complicated. There's a whole thread about it. But you can use this to check: https://naijaro.github.io/deadfire-speed-calculator/

 

But since it's not updated to 2.0 some values might be different. But you can get a feeling how speed bonuses stack.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[Faytte]

Crit damage is additive.

 

Unfortunately 15% speed and 15% speed is not necessarily 30% speed.  I think with +5 DEX + Swift Strikes it fits. But generally attack speed mechanics are kind of complicated. There's a whole thread about it. But you can use this to check: https://naijaro.github.io/deadfire-speed-calculator/

 

But since it's not updated to 2.0 some values might be different. But you can get a feeling how speed bonuses stack.

 

 

I see. Well that certainly helps, though I still come back to the trouble of comparing effects. I imagine the lashes will be stronger in general, since penetration is a bit binary; as long as you can pierce, then it doesnt matter until you can double (which probably aint happening anytime soon). 

 

Do Nelpazza have easier access to wounds then Hellwalkers? 

[Boeroer]

Yes. Nalpascas get +1 wound every 6 seconds while drugged. This cumulates with Dance of Death.

 

Lash damage is multiplicative and thus considered more powerful usually.

[Faytte]

Thank you.

Yeah checking out the calculator, swift strikes does next to nothing for attack speed. It doesnt seem to stack with coral snuff, potion of relentless strikes or deftness. Not sure if its an issue with the calculator or just how it works. 

That said, Hunting Bow module looks incredible. -15 accuracy seems nasty but you are getting so many more strikes off.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Faytte

[thundercleese]

That is intended behaviour; only thing that stack from that column is bloodlust. Also keep in mind the calculator doesn't add the +5 dex from the Quick inspiration swift strikes gives you.

[Boeroer]

You can just use the DEX slider down left to give yourself +5 DEX.

 

Attack Speed mods from active abilities don't stack. The most potent one will be used. Note that Attack Speed bonus (like Frenzy or Swift Strikes) and bonus to recovery (like Hunting Bow modal or Heating up) are to different things and thus will not suppress each other. The first affects attack time and recovery while the latter "only" reduces recovery.

 

What stacks is Heating Up (Streetfighter is flanked), Bloodlust and Sure-Handed Ila, the Hunting Bow modal and bonuses from items (for example Miscreant's Leather + Cutthroat Cosmo pet make you faster than being naked).

Edited August 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[Cakeisalie2k]

Have you considered Barbarian Berserker?  Tenacious, recovery time, and a bleed/staggered from frenzy.

Bloody slaughter hit to crit increases.

Bloodlust increased action speed, and bloodthirst instant recovery.   

 

I've seen some pretty nasty combinations with Frostseeker.