horuslvx

Many good points have been made and there are also some fine rebuttals (well one find rebuttal, from DrSpock, no one else bothered to actually argue the points and just said "blah no blah.") I thought I'd add my page(s) here (since I have a lot of time on my hands, and am very bored) to offer a somewhat different idea about the meeting with the three masters, Atris, and the three masters themselves. The Masters: All of the Jedi Masters from your trial play seperate roles in the game, each being far different from the Jedi who banished you, but all representing aspects of paths available to you in the game. They each have their own viewpoint on "what must be done" and "how to do it," and some have fallen quite far from the epitome of a Jedi. This being a game filled with complex characers with complex agendas and emotions, it isn't so simple to label them as you might think, but I think it is fair to draw some generalizations about them. Quite specifically, if you pick certain dialogue options with Master Kai-Ell on Nar Shaddaa, you will find that he has broken from the Jedi Order and refuses to have anything further to do with the Jedi. He feels the Jedi, and the teachings they have embraced and put forth are responsible for much of the suffering that has occured throughout the galaxy, and therefore has seperated himself from them. He even welcomes your vengeance on him because he himself feels responsible for not speaking out about his worries, taking a firm stance either way about your exile, and most importantly, refusing to act during the Mandalorian Wars. In one game I had to talk him out of forcing me to kill him. With this in mind, I believe he represents the "Gray" Jedi, those who live beyond the Jedi Code but have not fallen to the darkside, and earned my respect immediately for his stance on this, though I can only blame him for his ambivalence as it has affected your whole life and the stability of the Galaxy. At least he realizes his mistakes and decides to "face the music," be it in a final battle with you, or by rejoining the Council on Dantooine. My favorite quote from him is where when you ask about what happened after the trial and he says, "While I won't keep promises to Jedi, I do keep promises to my friends." Quite a complex character for the amount of time he appears in the game. Next in line of those having parted from the Jedi Order, we have Atris, who has gone from Jedi Master to eventually taking on the mantle of Darth Traya. If any of you believe Kreia's answer about not knowing her as well as she should, although she understands her well enough, then you should go back over that comment a few times and compare it carefully to what Kreia lets slip about her own past and the enemies you face, along with her answers at the end. Atris is nearly a mirror for Kreia, and is a key to understanding Kreia's more obscure moments and figuring out the meaning of the ending for each particular path in the game. Firstly, Atris is thought dead by the other Jedi Masters, who are completely taken off guard by the knowledge of the "school" on Telos. The only student at the Telos Academy is Atris herself, as her anger and passion for you (well, passion if you're a male exile) wars within her, her lust for knowledge causes her to _steal_ Jedi Holocrons and artifacts from Dantooine (see the Disciple's dialouge) send looters to the Sith Academy on Korriban (see the poor Twi'leks Datapad and various remains inside) to take Sith Holocrons, and then locking herself for what must be days at a time inside a room filled with them.... Suffice to say the ancient Sith who invested their spirits in those Holocrons found her a willing student. She was on the path to becoming a Sith the day she sat at your trial, she was just taking the final steps down the dark path when you re-entered her life. She represents one path to the darkside, the one Kreia took, where anger combines with a lust for knowledge, leading one ever deeper down the path to the darkside until the idea that it's possible to turn back is forgotten. On the other hand, as the subject of this thread, we have Master Vrook (who could easily win the award for most hated KOTOR character.) Vrook is a representation of the path that leads ever downward through pride. He believes himself to be the last bastion of the Jedi Order, believes himself capable beating any challenge, and most importantly (and most damning,) is arrogant enough to believe that he is beyond reproach for his actions. He firmly states throughout both games that he doesn't trust either player character (Revan or the Exile,) that they shouldn't be trained/allowed to use the Force and that they represent, in his eyes, a danger to all. This sounds an awful lot like jealousy and fear talking to me. He seems to be ever to eager to condemn the player character without even hearing how vindictive and vicious he sounds when he says it. To put it mildly, he envies Revan's strength and the Exile's abilities, envies them their position of pivotal importance to the galaxy, and is constantly wondering why he, a famed and important Jedi Master who sits on the Jedi Council, determining the path all the Jedi will take, is nothing more than a sideshow exhibit. His pride that he is unblemished when all around him have fallen, and his envy of those whose destinies are beyond his ability to imagine, have corrupted him totally; turned him into a fanatic who believes only he has the right to judge others. So this is what he does, he judges all around him, refusing to face the monster that he has become inside. This represents the danger Jedi face from pride, the silent corrupter. That one can become lost to the darkside and still convice themselves that they act for the good of all. Finally we reach Master Kavar, the last true Jedi Master in the galaxy. He is the only one left who continues to follow the true Jedi Code, who believes that his life must be put forth in defense of what is good and right, as he does on Onderon. He is also the only Jedi Master who shows any faith in the Exile and who is actively seeking out the new threat that destroyed the Jedi Order, despite that all who have gone looking have died or disappeared. He is a Jedi Guardian to his last breath, ever facing danger head on at the risk of his own life, faithful to the Code he has served for so long. His only flaw is that very faith. Since he himself is pure, he does not question the purity of the remaining Jedi, and in the end that faith dooms him to death. He represents all that a Jedi is supposed to be, and serves as a wonderful example of what it is to truly care about something more than you do yourself. The Meeting: When you face the three Jedi Masters, it's obvious Vrook has had his way with the others. It would be easy to convince Kavar of the "rightness" of their actions, since his faith doesn't allow him to question it much, considering it's for the "good" of the galaxy that it must be done, despite his friendship and understanding for you. Kai-Ell would be the skeptic, already having come to reject the Jedi Order, although in truth, you yourself are mostly to blame for him agreeing to this plan. By showing faith in the Jedi yourself, you've given him a new purpose in life, to live up to his responsibility as a Jedi Master. With this in mind, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to theorize that after Vrook had convinced Kavar, that he would listen to his friends advice (Kavar's I mean) and accept the 2/3s majority against his dissension and agree. On the subject of them cutting you off from the Force, for a couple of reasons I doubt it would have succeeded, or that they would have lived through it, even without Kreia's intervention. Considering your combined ability to absorb the Force from others and form Force Bonds so quickly and easily, Im of the believe that the act of pouring the amount of Force energy into you that it would require to sever your link would only have drained them until they were nothing more than empty shells. On the second part, since your renewed connection to the Force came from the Bonds you had forged to the planets you visited and to those you traveled with, severing that link would be almost like trying to cut the Force off from all life itself. As an explanation to this, after spending far too much time playing this game and considering the implications throughout all of the dialogue and the story of the game itself, I've come to believe that when people look at you and see a "wound/death/hole" in the Force, that they're in actuality seeing the Force itself. It's no jump in logic to assume that the Exile is instrumental to the survival of the galaxy, and therefore the Force itself, and that the Force has patterened the path your life will take until you are carrying, quite literally, the whole of the Force with you. This is why Kreia sees the death of the Force in you, that if you die then the Force would wither and die. This is why the Master see you as a threat to the Force itself, because you carry it's continued existence on your shoulders. Anyway, thats just a theory that has occured to me, and I think it gives a better perspective on the more difficult and confusing plot points in the game, while also giving a connection between the Exile and Revan (in that Revan was the "heart" of the Force and the Exile is the "corpus" so to speak.) But that's neither here nor there... I'll let yall get back to slandering Vrook so I can enjoy it some more. -horus -lvs-

To Drakron: It's amazing what modders can do these days.... and I really never expected the devs to change their game just because I made a post. Thank you so much for your response and comments about the ideas I presented though, I'll be sure to think of your inspirational remarks in the future. To draakh_kimera: ...you have no idea To Astatine: I don't think anything in there is a spoiler, only the mention of ZKE on NS is at all specific and it was just a mention. Mostly its just about the concept of the Gray Jedi, which do exist in Canon, and are mentioned a couple times in the game in non-plot specific ways. My point was just that in KOTOR2 they made the game have a lot of choices, and choosing the path of the twilight between the light and the dark is possible, but there just aren't any reasons to do so. It was mainly aimed at those people out there already thinking about mods for the PC release, and maybe for future KOTOR games. In all seriousness I would have preferred a non-class/non-level system where you used experience to buy more VP/FP, increase stats, buy skills/feats and powers, with specialized abilities (powers, forms, etc) available through NPC interaction, training, alignment and choices/plot events while you progressed through rankings from apprentice to padawan to knight to master.... but that's just me. I'd just prefer the complete customization allowed by that sort of system, I think it gives you a fuller game experience as you create your character along the way, instead of just picking a predetermined path to follow. -horus -lvx-

Id have to say a Sentinel starting with 14 Int and 14 Con will beat any of the other choices hands down for starting class. When you hit level 15 and can pick up your prestige class, thats where you run into a serious choice, since every class is worth taking. Best bet then is to save your game before choosing and try each one for a few levels to see how you like it. The Exile gets major amounts FPs regardless of class from learning from Kreia and remembering more about his connection to the Force, so you won't run into a situation where you're running out of FPs much. As a reminder, both the Sith Assassin and Sith Lord gain Force Crush, which can kill all but a very few things in one use (even if they make their save) and will kill most bosses in 3-4 applications (even if they save.) It's considered over-powered, but thats completely reasonable when you're talking about a level 27-30 Sith Assassin/Lord given the DnD based rule-set and considering most level 10+ DnD characters are already insanely strong. As LS it can be more difficult unless you pick and use the DS powers like Force Storm and Death Field. Otherwise you're relying solely on Force Enlightenment (or Master Speed/Master Valor/Master Shield), Master Heal, Stasis Field and Force Wave. As a LS'er you're going to have use Force Wave/Stasis Field to give you enough time to use your buffs and then take them out with your saber. It works just as well, its just a different style of play. Oh, as a note, forget working on Flurry in KOTOR2. With Master Speed and Dueling/Two-hand Weapons, you'' have more than enough attacks anyway. It's best to go with the Critical Strike or Power Attack lines and up your damage per hit that gain another normal damage attack... complete waste of three feats is Master Flurry. As for Strength vs. Dexterity, I'd go wtih Dex and use Str boosting items while picking up Finesse: Melee Weapons and Finesse: Lightsaber. Also, remember that your party gains a bonus to attack rolls based on your Cha, dont consider it useless. -horus -lvx-

Something I think that is terribly lacking in KOTOR2, despite it's numerous mentions via the Gray Jedi Robe, Master Zez Kai-Ell being one when you meet him on Nar Shaddaa, Kreia's teachings emphasizing neither the Jedi Code or the passionate fury of the Sith, and the fact that most situations/quests/conversations have a 'gray' or 'neutral' resolution... is that the game lacks prestige classes for the Exile who chooses not to walk the path of the Jedi or the Sith. There is also a historical precedent in KOTOR1 for this in the form of Jolee. You can play through the game as a 'Gray' Jedi, keeping your alignment balanced, but there aren't any nifty bonuses for doing so, even though it's actually tougher to remain neutral than to pick the path of the light of the dark as you get deeper into the game; not to mention the fact that one of the major themes present throughout KOTOR2 is the idea of the Force needing to maintain a balance between light and dark, and that the balance must be maintained for life to continue. I would think the Jedi who pursue balance in their lives and in their knowledge of the Force would come to know powers and abilities of equal magnitude to those of the LS/DS Prestige classes, while being as unique to the alignment/starting class as the other prestige classes are on both sides. Indeed, given the number of universal force powers it would only make sense that their are higher mysteries to be learned in that direction. This being said, I offer my ideas for prestige classes for the Gray Jedi Prestige classes in the hopes that others become interested in the idea and that it will eventually show up in the game, most likely as an after-market modification... but who knows? Here follows my ideas including backstory, specific gained abilities by prestige class and a specialty power along the lines of Force Crush and Force Enlightenment (G - Jedi Guardian, S- Jedi Sentinel, C- Jedi Consular): G - Gray Vanquisher Backstory - In between the Weapon Master of the Jedi Order and the battle-crazed Sith Marauder exists the Gray Vanquisher. A consumate master of the lightsaber, only interested in seeking out, learning and perfecting the forms and techniques of their chosen weapon and the enlightenment that they can only find in battle where the line between life and death rests upon the, often bloody, edge of a razor. In these moments, when man and saber become indistinquishable, are when they are closest to the Force, feeling it fill them, connecting them to the ebb and flow of the entire galaxy, that they are truly at peace. The Vanquisher's live to test themselves in combat, often to the death, and so they have turned away from the Jedi Order and the Jedi Code's pacifistic teachings, though they find the lust for slaughter displayed by the Sith to be even more distasteful. Living by their honor and their blades, they travel the galaxy seeking out the ancient mysteries of the lightsaber and new tests to hone those abilities, they can be found in many roles, but always where the promise of battle is greatest. Prestige abilities - The Vanquisher would recieve the same abilities as those shared by the WM and Marauder. The unique ability would reflect the Vanquisher's focus on becoming one with his chosen lightsaber style (double-saber, two saber or single saber.) To this end I would suggest two seperate abilities. The first would be either a special lightsaber form, or allowing the Vanquisher to recieve all the lightsaber forms, including the sentinel/assassin/watchman form. For a Force Power/Feat, I've come up with one called "Battle Focus" which is an activated power, costing 0 FPs to activate and not restricted by armor, that drains some FPs from the player whenever he is attacked or attacks in melee combat, giving him a bonus to defend when attacked, damage reduction when hit, a bonus to hit when attacking, a bonus to score a critical hit when he hits and a bonus to damage when he deals damage, all based on his total character level. The details would need to be balanced out by testing in the game as to not be too over-powered. This denotes the fact that he has devoted himself completely to the martial aspects of the Jedi and that this is how he uses the Force. S - Gray Seeker Backstory - Never content to live a cloistered existence inside the Jedi Enclave's, the Seeker combines the best of the Sith Assassin and the worst of the Jedi Watchman. Unlike the others though, the Seeker is not shackled by the Jedi Code or driven by hunger of the Sith. Marked even as child be a knack, or a need some would say, to ferret out things hidden or long forgotten, the Seeker is driven to simply discover things. Many of the Jedi's greatest historians and archaeologists have become Seekers, either leaving the Order to seek knowledge without restriction, or being driven out for finding the forbidden. While many who have followed a similar path have fallen slowly to the darkside, the Seeker is only interested in the truth, not power. The Seeker uses a combination of skill, stealth and guile in order to achieve his ends, and is well aware that not only does knowledge have a price, but that some secrets are guarded jealously, sometimes lethally. While many Seekers have been called thieves, grave-robbers and worse, they are still grossly out-numbered by those who are willing to pay handsomely for the Seekr's services in the only form a Seeker will accept.... a secret for a secret. These loners exist in a shadowy nether-world, moving through the galaxy but never truly a part of it, and this existence has left it's mark on them. They have become secretive in the extreme, coming and going like the wind, with the burden of the truths they so covet burning in their eyes. Prestige abilities - The Seeker enjoys the same abilities as the Watchman and Assassin of course, except for the sneak attack feats. Instead of this feat line the Seeker has learned a few tricks from the KOTOR2 Scout's selection, being the Uncanny Dodge line and Evasion. As far as unique abilities go, the Seekers cannot have spent all that time studying forgotten lore, forbidden techniques and evading the traps and guardians of these secrets without developing some advantages from it. To reflect this the Seeker gains the Mind Trick power at level 1 Seeker and Force Confusion at level 5 Seeker, along with a unique feat and unique force power. The feat, "Instinct," gives the Seeker a bonus to Awareness, Persuade, To-Hit and Defense (combination of Empathy and Dueling basically) that is based on prestige class level (+2 for every 4 levels). The force power they would recieve would be "Force Insight" which would be a passive power that allows them to resist the effects of a force power they save against, even if it would normally still effect them, and maybe include a bonus to save against force effects based on level. They would also recieve the same special force power as the Gray Justicar, ala the Sith Assassin and Lord both gaining Force Crush. C - Gray Justicar Backstory - Drawn to the Force even more than Jedi Masters and Sith Lords are the Justicars. Even before joining the Jedi Order as an apprentice Justicars exhibited amazingly advanced abilities with using the Force, enough so that some have never had any formal training at all. As different from other Force-users as the Jedi are from the Sith, the Justicar seems to draw his knowledge and power directly from the Force itself, as if he is both more and less than a normal human, a living extension of the Force. Of the Gray Jedi, only the Justicars maintain ties between themselves, able to communicate over vast distances in some unknown way. The are drawn insistently to places amongst the galaxy where there is stagnation, seeking to restore the equilibrium of change, whether it be by seeding a subjugated world with rebellion or bringing corruption to an unspoiled paradise. Throughout history these hidden judges have nudged minds, whispered emtpy rumor, manufactured evidence and even staged murders to keep the galaxy in flux, constantly changing and enforcing the birth, death and re-birth that renews the galaxy and maintains its vibrancy and life. The Justicars follow only one tenet, have only rule: The only constant is change, for change brings new life and stagnation means the death of all. Prestige abilities: The Justicar is far more connected to the Force than any other. They are surrounded by it, empowered by it and enslaved to it. To reflect this they also posses the abilities common between the Sith Lords and Jedi Masters. Beyond this, they gain several special abilities. Firstly, given the nature of their bond to the force they gain the ability "Force Vitality" which when active allows a portion of damage they take to come from their FPs. They gain the first level of this ability at level 1, where the damage is split 80/20, at level 5 they gain "Improved Force Vitality" which allows a split of 70/30 and level 9 "Master Force Vitality" for 60/40. In addition they gain a passive power "Force Intuitive" which allows to use Force Powers at reduced cost, whether they are universal, LS or DS, reducing the cost of their force powers by 25%. Finally they learn a power called "Force Equilibrium" an active power that causes any active or passive power in the party to have its effect increased by 10% for every 3 levels of he Justicar (10% at levels 1-3, 20% 4-6, 30% 7-9, etc) with a maximum of 50% increase. As the power shared between Gray Jedi prestige classes should be something unique to their viewpoint (LS gets buffs, DS gets damage, Gray would get a balance between the two) so I was thinking of "Force Absorption" an active power that deals damage to a targeted enemy's VP and stats over time, increasing the VP and stats of the character at the same rate, and remains active until the target is dead. This ability drains life at the rate 8 ticks of 2 seconds each over 12 seconds doing the character level to VP per tick, and draining 2 stat points per tick with a maximum of 12 stat points. So at level 20, the power would drain 20 VP and 2 stat points every 2 seconds, maxing out at 120 VP and 12 stat points, with the stat loss remaining until the target is dead. There would be a Will save vs. DC 5 + Character Level + Cha mod + Wis mod, which would result in only dealing half character level to VP and 1 stat point every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. So at level 20, savng would deal 10 damage and 1 stat damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds, maxing out at 60 damage and 6 stat points, with the PC gaining no benefit. This would need to be balanced out in game of course. Hope my ideas find a use somewhere, as the one part of the game that bothers me is the lack of any 'neutral' prestige classes. -horus -lvx-

About the Bao-Dur/Trapped Mandalorian event, it works, you just need to be a bit tricky about it. A lot of events are like this in the game. Many events can be triggered for multiple characters, so having some characters in your party, lets say you have both Visas and Mandalore in your party when you first come to Onderon. Now, when the crowd riots if they're both in your party, Visas will respond but Mandalore wont, while if you remove Visas from your party at that time youll have Mandalore respond to it. The same goes for speaking with Anda about sacking the three Captains (if you're DS,) talking to the citizens, and in the cantina if you have both Visas and HK in your party, only one will respond to your decision about killing the civilians. The trick to this, if you're playing with the specific purpose of influencing a particular party-member, is to make sure you only have that specific party-member along at the time of the 'influence-event.' In most areas you can switch your party members around without having to leave the area or go to the Hawk, so its easy to be specific about who is along with you. If this isn't possible, then I suggest to only bring Kreia and the person you wish to influence with you, as Kreia's 'influence-events' are specific and/or conversation based. Also, there isn't really a single fight in the game you should really need more than your main character alone to handle, and appropriately levelled every single one of your companions is anything but weak. Even T3 can more than handle himself in a fight by using his interchangeable arms or giving him stunning/stat-damage pistols and working up the Dual Strike line of feats. Anyway, it's important, if you're following this influence guide, to pick who gets the influence where, based on who you want turned into a Jedi, or whose back-story/bonuses you're trying to get to. The whole game, from the very beginning of it, is about choices, and since most of the plot points of the game revolve around the choices you have made so far, make them and be done with it and dont worry about missing something because of them. You can always play through again and try different choices. An example: In my last game I decided to try an experiment. Play a DS character through but taking the LS path through the game (saving Dantooine from the Mercs, not blowing up Peragus, helping Queen Talia and not killing the Jedi Masters I found, etc) and ended being completely DS (Sentinel/Assassin) at the final meeting with Kreia.... I still got the darkside ending, despite going through the major quest points as if I were a LS Jedi. This proved my suspicions that your alignment at any given time has as much impact on the game as your choices. Basically just another choice along the road. Now I'm playing through aligned to the LS but killing off the Masters one by one as well as helping the mercs on Dantooine, the General on Onderon, etc... we'll see what happens. The only thing that I wish they had included are prestige classes for Gray Jedi, as they have more than enough references to them and allow you a 'neutral' way out of most situations. Not to mention that all of Kreia's teachings throughout the game are aimed at keeping you from following the Jedi Code or being completely consumed by the dark passions of the Sith. I guess this is something the modders can tackle in the PC version. -horus -lvx-

Howdy, One thing I've definately enjoyed about some of the new force powers they've added, meaning Force Direct/Force Redirection (and Force Body although that doesn't apply to this specific situation) and feats, being Close Combat and Precise Shot (and Targeting for Mira/Hanharr,) not to mention the Unarmed series and the related special abilities that both Handmaiden and Bao-Dur gain in that area... is that it allows for a very wide range of varied combat styles that just weren't possible in KOTOR1. While I haven't gone so far as to make my PC a permanent blaster user, but I have experimented with several non-lightsaber builds for my other characters. For my first game I was unlucky enough to only have a single saber for a long time and Kreia spent long enough using the scout/watchman or sonic pistols that I never ended up giving her one and instead built up on her dueling feat with close combat and precise shot. She was quite useful with the higher DC Stun and attribute damage pistols, while using Master Speed for extra attacks. I did the same with Atton as an experiment, though I didn't end up using him much that play-through because of the redudancy with my PC being a sith assassin and more than one sneak attacker in the group just doesn't fit. On the other hand, though I haven't reached getting her in my current game, I can't wait to see what Mira can do with a modded Mandy Ripper/Disintegrator in one hand, the Force in the other and a rocket-launcher on her wrist. Beyond the characters that start or can be trained as Jedi, I'm very happy that they've given the non-Jedi, and the blaster users, a bigger role in combat later in the game. Mandalore, HK and Hanharr... they can all be extremely vicious with ranged weapons and the right feats.... though I prefer using rifles with them, favourites being the Heavy Repeating RIfle, Mandy Repeating Rifle and the Charric. Talking about misfit Jedi, my personal favorites are using the Handmaiden and Bao-Dur and leaving them unarmed. Both of their unique unarmed feats make their damage more than comparable to most highly modded lightsabers, especially considering the specialist unarmed gloves you can find. Suffice to say that the feats/powers that were added, the adjustments made to the different non-Jedi classes, and the unique abilities given to the party members have made a huge difference in the ways you can develop your PC and his allies. I can remember how unbalanced the game was towards anything non-Jedi at higher levels and was specifically harsh for the non-blaster users. To sum up: You can develop your characters anyway you want, and there are hardly any variations that aren't feasible. One other thing. The flurry and rapid-shot feats are no longer the "required" choices they used to be, even for a non-Jedi duelist or rifle user. With a correctly modded weapon and stats critical strike and sniper shot are better for the one-hander/rifle users without Master Speed, while mastering power strike/shot is the way to go for the dual-wielders or single weapon Jedi with Master Speed. The only people I consider flurry for are the Handmaiden and Bao-Dur (if they don't become Jedi) and Hanharr, because of how low his intelligence (for sniper-shot) is after I'm finished breaking his spirit a few times -horus -lvx-

Greetings, As I've been looking through the forums while working my way through KOTOR2, I've noticed a _very_ disconcerting trend towards complaints about the storyline and plot, with specific problems arising considering the ending. Now, to get it our of the way, this is just my humble opinion, and all comes through my point of view. This means that what makes sense to me might not make sense to you, either because Im a firking idiot, or an acknowledged genuis... the point is, you decide which if you don't agree with me and keep it out of the thread. First off, you'll find no argument from me that the game is buggy, full of (useful or not) glitches and tends to lag whenever something cool happens on screen... and then crashes in a dialogue/cu-scene before you can save the last hours work. Now while I can't say that the OE is completely free from the blame from this, there are several simple and logical reasons why the game tends not to go all 12 rounds without a TKO: 1. The biggest culprit is the Xbox itself. This game is pushing the limit of the multi-year old Xbox hardware beyond it's limits. Compared to the CPUs, GPUs, MBs, RAM and HDs available and packed into most gamer's PCs currently, the Xbox is powered by a narcoleptic hamster. Let's not forget the fact that most Xbox hard-drives are so fragmented and burnt-out by the constant save-save-load-save-reload that.... words fail me. Just remember that the hardware does play a pretty big part performance-wise. Personally I'm quite amazed that it runs as well as it does. 2. Everyone's mentioned it, because it's true, so il'' repeat it as well: Holiday Season Deadline. The Xbox version was rushed out the door tin order to try to take a slive out of the very-merry holiday market-share for video-games. Nuff' said. 3. Which brings us smoothly and neatly into the the third point, a PC version comes out in Feb. This always seems like "Oh, make me buy it twice, gee-thanks..." The missiong Xbox content (HK Factory, Mandalorian recruiting bonus: missions.....) will most likely be makerted as 'exclusive contect" for the PC, but thats the way the world works. I don't mind though, I'd get the PC version wholly for the modding scene regardless. Ok, now for common complaints about the game itself. One thing I won't discuss here is continuity relating to anything other than KOTOR1; this means I'm not going to argue literary canon one or the other, just going to leave things in the perspective of the Star Wars universe as shown in the two games. Things I will be happy to discuss are plot-lines, characters, placer-npc interactions (i.e. influence), game engine differences and their comparison to KOTOR1 AND whether I think the new systems are better than the original (and of course the reasons why.) _The Ending_ Last things first, because it seems to be the most discussed and misunderstood portion of the game, and naturally because the finale only makes sense when you look at the preceding portions of the game in context. Many people are upset that the ending leaves you with no sense of resolution... no climactic battle between good (or evil) and evil (or good.) It just leaves you staring off into the nebula of another galaxy, wondering what happens next. I personnally didint have any problems with it, because from my view everything got sorted out. Maybe it has to do with perspective, and mine is that the "end" of the game encompases everything from the point when you confront the last of the Jedi Masters, be it to kill them or convince them to meet on Dantooine. From that point on you're playing the end-game, where the dejarik board is uncovered bit by bit until you can see all the peices, and most importantly, your actual opponent.. The climax comes in the battle over Telos on the Ravager and carries over into your confrontation with Sion on Malachor V. The remains of the game following that are really not your own story, they're Kreia's. Her journey, her story, must end so that yours can go on. When you take these meetings (Atris, Visas on the Ravager, Nihilus, Sion and finally Kreia) slowly, ask your questions and contemplate the answers you get, all the shadows and deceit are lifted between you and Kreia, as she promises in her dialogue if you get enough influence with her. _The Ending: An explanation (Read if you still have trouble grasping it)_ The meaning behind the end sequence isn't simple, and wasn't supposed to be. It was made to be extremely complex and designed to force you to consider a variety of questions that can't, or won't, be answered without each player considering the choices they've made throughout the game. The ones that can be answered by someone else can only be done so in a general sense which I'll try to do here. Kreia, of course, ran things from the beginning. She manipulated, twisted, and bent everyone and everything around you from the very beginning of the game. She did this, quite simply, out of love and a need to understand you. She forced you to confront endless challenges and choices, caused you to doubt everything and everyone, forcing you to relive the path you took during the Manalorian Wars until you had again reached the point you had when you turned your back on the galaxy, and most importantly the Force, on Malachor V. Without collecting followers again and dealing with people throughout the galaxy again... without that interaction you would have remained deaf to the Force. Without the strife and constant threats you faced you would not have had the impetus to grow strong, stronger than any of her students before or since.... maybe even stronger than Revan. This she needed, to train one as powerful as you had the ability to become, and she loves you for it, loves you enough to force your hand to destroy her if need be so that you would be even stronger for it. On the other side, she needed to understand how you had lived without the force, as you had. To her, there was never any distinction between Sith and Jedi... there was only the Force, and you were the battleground her war against the Force was fought on. When she finally understands that you were given no choice but to turn away from the Force, I think she see's that while one can live without the Force, the Force isn't something tha can be itself removed. So, there at the end of the journey, in the center of Trayus on Malachor V, she forces you into the only choice she knows with become more powerful, powerful enough to follow Revan's path out into the Outer Darkness and fight in the war against the true Sith Empire, in whatever way, as she says, one can hope to fight them. A note on the Mass Shadow Generator: if I recall, it was the weapon that Bao-dur built for the Republic, a doomsday device that could be used to end the war once and for all. Secretyl though, it served Revan's purpose, to create enough death to leave a large echo in the Force, large enough to channel the power of that echo into breaking the will of the remaining Jedi, converting them to his cause.... and perhaps large enough that it could be used to wake the Star Forge and give him a means to build his new armada. _Your Companions_ This is a much debated subject, but only one that can be truly understood if you take the time to gain the influence needed to convince, or make, them offer up their secrets. This is one of the areas where this game shines, imho, simply because the choices you make about who to influence and how will both open some up, or deny you others. This game is about choices from the very beginning, so choose who amongst your companions you wish to explore, or train as Jedi. For male characters: Atton, Bao-Dur, and the Handmaiden. For female characters: Atton, Bao-Dur, and the Disciple. If you're light-side to slightly dark-side you can get and convert Mira as well, while if you're fully dark-side you'll get Hanharr... There isn't a 'choice' between these two as it is completely based on your alignment at the time you go to see Visquis in the Jekk'Jekk Tarr. Both are worth having, so dont feel upset over which you get, as Hanharr can be used to gain an amazing amount of DS points, as well as special lessons from Kreia and a few stat/force bonuses for yourself. At the end of my last game, I had abused Hanharr into trading 8 of his Int points for Str points, 4000 exp and a load of DS points, as this convo-option remains and can be repeated. Suffice to say a raging, dual-wielding wookie critical-striking with 30 base strength is a sight to see. To finish this part up, all I can say is to take your time with your companions, work on gaining influence for them, and question them to constantly. Also, many converstions and interesting trivia can only be had from them if you dont neglect your skills and seemingly meaningless stats. As an example T3 can only be fully opened up with a high enough Intelligence, Computer and Repair skill. Awareness, Wisdom and Persuade can open new doors in many conversations throughout the game. This leads nicely into the next section. _Building a Character_ If you want to enjoy the journey through the game as much as possible, I suggest playing through the beginning as a Jedi Sentinel with a decent starting Intelligence (14 is good) and a good starting Con (14 is also good.) You wont lose access to any of the prestige classes by doing this, as they're based on alignment, not starting class, and there are more than enough levels to be gained and stat-boosting items to be found that you should 20+ in all the important combat stats by the end of the game (Strength, Dex, Wisdom and Charisma.) Also, a high Con early in the game will make a huge difference simply because of the implants that are available. After my first play-through using a consular, I no longer bother using any class except a sentinel. When it comes time to choose a prestige class at level 15 then you can choose to specialize, as the starting classes other than sentinel have no redeeming features, while the prestige classes are filled with great special abilities. This is one feature of the game that both mirrors and greatly outshines the first game, I think. Also, planning out who you will train as a Jedi and when is very important. Converting the Handmaiden to a Jedi Guardian at level 20 leaves little room for her improvment in wielding the Force unless you plan to use the Hssiss trick to reach the level cap. It might be a good idea to stop actively levelling a character when they've reached a point that you are ready to convert them. Also considering that the Handmaiden is by far the best unarmed fighter you gain, even after converting her to the ways of the Force it might be worth keeping her unarmed and focusing her force powers on Master Speed, Energy Resistance, Force Deflection/Redirection and Force Body. The unarmed fighting system is definately another boon for this game. As far as powers go, unlike KOTOR1, nearly every power you can choose is worth taking. The trick is simply focusing on the powers that support your playstyle. Overall through, with Force Storm, Force Wave (or Stasis Field, or Horror), either Death Field or Master Heal, there isn't a single normal fight in the game you shouldn't be able to win without having to resort to swinging your lightsaber at something. In the Trayus Acadamy, with my Wis and Cha boosted to 26 and 24 respectively, a single force storm would kill just about everything in a room, and death field finished off the rest and left me fully healed having barely used any FPs. If you happen to pick up Force Crush on your play-through, there almost isnt any point to paying attention to the remaining 'boss' fights. Just queue up Force Crush a few times and the fight will be over, even against the dreaded triple-lightsaber attack. If I have one complaint about the powers that is the one I'll complain about. At around level 30, Force Crush will kill non-bosses in one use, even if they save, and kill most bosses in two or three applications... where is the fun in that??? _Adivce for Playing for Maximum Enjoyment_ As grand as the title for this section might be, the advice I can give can be summed up into one sentence: "Take your time playing through the game." If you finished in the absolute minimum amount of time, congratulations, you missed more than half the game. This game is a journey, not a race to reach the prize at the end.... hence the fact that their is no prize at the end. Go get yourself a comfortable seat on your couch, put the disc back in the Xbox, call off any plans you have for the next week and spend as long as you can just enjoying the journey as you play through the game again. I've been through the game three times now, and my last playthrough took around 70 hours. This is truly a game meant to be savoured, where the time you put into it has a definitive effect on what you'll get out of it. All I can say now is "Bravo Obsidian" and wait for the PC release encore to see what they add, or re-add, to the game... as the band plays on. -horus -lvx-