Gromnir
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Posts posted by Gromnir
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"You want some straw man with your salad? If Bio wanted DA to appeal to most people possible, then why not include aliens and spaceships and guitars and a dance/singing contest of some kind?"
*chuckle*
you purpsoeful uses two strawmen agruments in a row to somehow prove that Gromnir uses strawman? however, in spite of fact that Gromnir made no such ridiculous argument, it is probably true that if bioware honest believed that adding such nonsense would improve sales, they would probably do so... but you seems to lose sight of the big picture again, which is sales. can you honest think o' a game developer plausibly mixing your suggested elements such that they end up with a commercially viable whole? no? if not then you got answer why bio not doing that way.
"Or maybe the fantasy SP CRPG market isn't as broad a church as you think, and maybe Bio are simply recognising that all the kids are flocking to buy so-called 'dark' games like Bioshock and Witcher and following suit."
so why is you arguing with Gromnir's comments above? you suggest that really what crpg fans want is the freaking salad.
*shrug*
maybe you not read entire thread... which is okie dokie 'cause Gromnir rarely reads entire threads, but it is noteworthy that bio got real and serious resitance from 'bout 1/4 of bio boardies when they announced that da would be "dark," inspired by george r.r. martin and battlestar galactica. 1/4 thought dark were grand stuff. 1/2 wanted to talk 'bout other more important aspects o' game development. this debate is what promted Gaider and other biowarians to come up with a new take on da's darkness: "DA will be dark, but not too dark."
the congregation responded when bio announced oncoming darkness, and it were a pretty damned broad range o' responses they got back from the faithful.
again, maybe you wanna read actual thread and comments that inspired... or not. you not gonna listen anyways.
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"Does the fact that McDonalds adds salads to the menu mean that it is going vegan? Similarly, if McDonalds starts selling fancier coffee, does that mean that it will suddenly turn into Starbucks? "
now you is just being silly. is not as if bio can offer up a menu to people. you want a "dark" pc crpg game? then bio can just whip up such a game, such a salad, and still has so much space on the menu for big macs and fillet o' fish and quarter pounders n' such.
HA!
bio, in spite o' being bigger and busier than most developers, releases how many games a year? not many.
regardless, even using your ridiculous myopic view, the meal bio is offering to customers in the guise o' da is still gonna be targeted to appeal to most people possible... and if that is case, then why in their right mind would they offer all da customers only salad?
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keeps in mind that we is talking 'bout da, a pc crpg from bio. a pc crpg is already gonna appeal to a relative small subset of total potential gamers, and bio has shown a desire to reach as big a % of that small group as is possible. is the first pc crpg bio will have released since nwn and its expansions, so chances are that they go vegan is slight... and notion that doing so would be economic smart is... stoopid.
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"But if Gromnir is right in his McDonald's analogy, the economics actually favour Bio making Dragon Age as dark as possible in order to meet the demands of the market, just like McDonalds introduced salads to attract women customers and allegedly 'gourmet' coffee to win back market share from Starbucks."
well that makes no sense. by adding a faux salad to menu, to attract women and health conscious peoples, mcdonalds did not overt change the menu. all the old mainstays is still there. is still a mcdonalds menu... but they throws in anemic, token salad or two. do not alienate the current established customers with any real change, and maybe with a half-hearted nod to health consciousness you gets some extra customers by adding a salad or two. is not as if every mcd restaurant renovated... added a salad bar and killed anything fried from menu. if mcd adding salads is akin to what bio is doing by adding dark to games, then Di gots even less to worry 'bout than we suggested earlier.
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Edited by Gromnir
I've been looking forward to this game for years. However, I don't much like the sound of unrelenting bleakness that they are stressing. Unlike folks who enjoy what I call "unpleasantly gritty misery and mayhem" games, I like to feel happy and satisfied when I finish a game, not utterly depressed and in need of a shower to wash off the taint. Bio is one of my favorite developers, so I'll no doubt buy this game on faith alone.our surprise would be genuine if da turned out to be too dark for Di. bioware develops games that has as broad an appeal as they can manage... given limitations o' licenses n' such. bio games is kinda like mcdonalds fast food. is anything at mcdonalds gonna be your ideal meal? probably not, but there is little surprise ‘bout mcdonalds food you know that you can get a big mac or a filet o’ fish, and chances are that with a coke and some fries you is gonna end up satisfied with your meal.
Gromnir, as a food snob o’ the o’ the worst water, can decry the EVIL that is mcdonalds, but am fully aware that mcdonalds is an extremely successful business. the business o’ mcdonalds is to make money, not to make great food.
Bio, as with mcdonalds, is very aware that they is in business to make money… making games is simply the means. is no way that bio is gonna risk the franchise by trying something that could be unpalatable to thousands. da is gonna be another big mac or filet o' fish... your fear that you end up with braised goat brains or black truffle foie gras seems slim.
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ps keep in mind that we ain't saying that bio is crap, or that they make crap games... is simply that they is making games with an expansively broad appeal. the more you attempt to achieve universal approval, the closer you inch towards mediocrity. while people is not as diverse as they would like to believe, they is different 'nuff that true universal appeal is probably impossible. universal satisfaction? perhaps.
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again, is pretty much thrown into your lap. how does many people miss? has you people never played crpgs before? if a big rock or pool o water gots a specific name, and if npcs gots dialogues that refer to those things, then what is you people doing to miss? gotta be willful oblivious.
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Edited by Gromnir
Even if all the world is against you, you will have love, and friends that stand by you.Jesus Christ. I know that's a recurring theme in fantasy. But couldn't they try to only use it incidentally? Explicitly going for that... oh dear.
Dragon Age is for hippies. Confirmed.
Wow. That's a really, really crappy theme.
is not the theme of da so much as it is Gaider doing the bio shuffle: try to make everybody happy.
developer comment: "DA is going to be much darker and grimmer than previous Bioware titles."
fan response 1: Fantastic. I am so tired of playing every game in a candyland version of Tolkien's Middle Earth.
fan response 2: If I wanted grim and dark I would read a book, not play a game. I see enough suffering in real life, and I want good old fashioned escapist fantasy rather than some dreary melodrama.
fan response 3: Bio sucks and this game is vaporware anyway.
fan response 4: No, YOU suck, and...
etc.
is pretty much the way things actually occurred when bio developers announced that DA would be dark... influenced by george r.r. martin and the new battlestar galactica and similar stuff. 1/4 fans were pleased. 1/4 fans were disappointed. 1/2 fans wanted to argue 'bout something other than tone or mood o' setting and story... the need for customizable footware 'n such.
bio did the expected and tried to mollify... da would be dark, but not Too dark.
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heya tale, better be careful on that slippery slope. you got some fuzzy gut-level method for dividing sci-fi from fanatsy, and we guarantees that Gromnir and others can points to many examples that would play havoc with your method.
*shrug*
again, is not as if the sci-fi v. fantasy definitions were result o' the scientific method, or even careful scholarly consideration... peddlers o' pulp magazines in post war era wanted simple advertising jargon to lets potential buyers know if their stories were 'bout futuristic space opera stuff, or if it were having swords and sorcery.
bah. continue to argue the fine points o' some sloppy magazine seller's knee-jerk definitions is ridiculous.
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"Magic, practically by definition, leaves the room for more creativity than simply expanding upon theorized science. Because magic can do quite literally anything the author wants. To stay true to Sci-Fi, an author must stay within reasonable limits."
stay "true" to sci-fi? am not sure what that is, but Creativity is why there is 0 functional difference 'tween sci-fi and fantasy. star trek, a show which actually had technical advisers to help with the science, has more magic than george r.r. martin's recent works... by a large margin. sci-fi explanations not have to be reasonable... simply have to get audience to embrace as plausible w/i context o' the setting (which is pretty much same standard for magic btw.) replicators, transporters and psychic powers and time travel, as applied in star trek universe, has very little reason involved. hell, the only reason you got star trek transporters in first place were 'cause shuttle shots were deemed too expensive for low-budget star trek. so creative persons come up with the notion o' The Transporter.
*shrug*
sci-fi is no different than magic.
now, is there some hardcore sci-fi that works real hard to be reasonable? sure there is. kim stanley robinson is an example o' an author who tries to keep it real, but for anybody who is willing to place star wars in the sci-fi category, the notion that there is a genuine difference 'tween sci-fi and fantasy goes right out the window.
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je were not Gromnir's cup o' kool-aid... never finished. didn't like combat, and other than henpecked hou, the cast o' characters did not appeal to us.
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je were set in world based on quasi-chinese mythology game, plus some other assorted asian influences. kewl. sounds neato and different. sadly, the setting were too much and not enough. the kill bill flicks managed to combine camp and martial arts and some serious moments o' cinematic drama. seemed like je were trying to do something similar. were so cliche chinese martial arts as to be campy... but usually it felt as if it were taking self serious... and the serious and dramatic je moments just fell kinda flat.
didn't like shallow JE rules set, and the action-rpg combat elements were too twitchy... and while we liked ME 'nuff to endure such stuff, we didn't manage to overcome those shortcomings in JE.
but you know what? unlike with movies, sequels in games is usually superior to the original... 'least for Gromnir. is not always mechwarrior 1 v. mechwarrior 2 extreme, but sequels usually improve multiple flaws o' the original offering.
if je2 were to improve on je as much as bio improved on bg with bg2.... well then, we would probably become as big a je fan as is vol... without his borderline autism.
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is no functional difference 'tween sci-fi and fantasy. some settings even blend/meld the two 'posedly different genres. heck, take a step back and look at star wars as sci-fi v. fantasy. had an orphan protagonist who wants to be a knight. got a princess in peril. a rogue who ain't as heartless as he would have folks believe? yeah, got one of those. even got a black knight bad guy. magic swords? check. a kindly wizard who steps into the merlin role w/o a hitch is part o' the story too. throw in a titanic battle 'tween forces o' good and evil... heck, you even gots a dragon in the classic tolkien sense. the death star = smaug. as for the science o' star wars... assimov would shudder. is no science in star wars... is simply ray guns and space ships in a fantasy setting.
in other words kb is off his nut. fantasy will always be 'round, in one guise or another.
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Man, you are slow. I did every single mission, except the Dr. Heart Mission, and beaten the game less than 27 hours with a 49th level character.
if you is only level 49 at end of game, then it seems very unlikely that you were having done every quest except dr. heart. almost guaranteed you missed a few more... whether you realize or not.
contrast: Gromnir were level 50 Before ilos.
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btw, insofar as the earlier poindexter v. twitchy debate, Gromnir is firmly in favor o' poindexter. don't like twitch games... is just one reason we tend to prefer crpgs. historically speaking, crpgs is more demanding of our created character's manual dexterity than Gromnir's. if had wanna play twitchy games, then we would play more shooters... which we don't play at all.
josh is in favor o' the twitch? fine. great. whatever. crpg is a pretty meaningless term, but western crpgs, for the most part, has chosen the poindexter route over the visceral, and Gromnir prefers things that way.
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Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory introduced a percentage system that gave you ratings based on your performance during the mission. This meant that I was more likely to try certain play styles, and replay in different ways, compared to the first two games, because CT acknowledged the way I played. I like achievements for pretty much the same reason. The best ones are those that inspire me to play in a way I might not otherwise have thought of.
Of course, it may simply be that I'm a 28 year old kiddie who needs appreciation.
There's a boyscout in all of us!
Gromnir were kicked out of the boy scouts... true story.
*shrug*
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All the achievements in the game provide tangible benefits for later playthroughs. The obvious example being kill 150 creatures with a shotgun = any character can use the shotgun. The ally benefits vary. The only one I know (through a friend) is Garrus. If you get Garrus' achievement the cooldown time on all tech powers is reduced by 10%.
am clear on what the achievements do.... am simply not understanding why somebody would want. boost to some abilities After you has already played game through?
okie dokie.
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Edited by Gromnir
I also kept Wrex with me pretty much from where he joins up, but I didn't get the Krogan ally acheivement. I don't get it, but I enjoyed Wrex more than anyone so no biggie. He's like Eyeore (donkey in winnie the pooh) with a gun.seen this at bio... and am surprised we recall. the actual mechanics of ally achievement is more specific than "complete majority of the game with..."
45 assignments and 11 missions.
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the confusion comes with the assignments, many of which can be completed sans party. go back to normandy and talk to hackett to complete? well then, that assignment not count towards ally achievement. complete any of the goose chase assignment (minerals/writings/insignia/medallions/etc.) from galaxy map and again you gets 0 cred towards ally achieve. is 50+ total possible assignments.... something like 54. however, at least three or four is completed with a hackett dialogue on normandy. goose chase = 4 more. as you can see, if you has misfortune to complete all goose chase assignments via survey function of galaxy map, then your window o' opportunity shrinks dangerously... 'specially if you play good and skip the 3-4 shady assignments.
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am perplexed why anybody cares 'bout achievements, but there you go... mystery solved.
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Edited by Gromnir
technically? one. is only 1 refinery base. however, you also gots multiple tunnels and the 'bove ground portion of the final location also gots the refinery base feel. entire area outside first tunnel is probably toughest portion if, like Gromnir, you hate the mako... something like 4 armatures and a colossus, as well as a bunch o' rocket and shock troop geth. otherwise, after the refinery base, it is all easy til you get to final 'bove ground location.
"shrug"
much like bis did with how, bio hearkens back to donkey kong for inspiration. heck, the mako can actually jump so as to more fully complete the parallel. repetitive S-shaped maps? how very progressive. luckily most critical path planets ain't entirely donkey kong style, but virtual all gots some o' that nonsense... therum=most donkey kong.
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sidenote: anybody who wishes to compare and contrast sci-fi and fantasy deserves to be kicked in the temple by a spastic footballer wearing steel cleats.
don't do it. don't be that guy. sci-fi and fantasy genres were birthed by publishers o' pulp magazines some many decades ago as a simple way to tell folks whether they were getting conan and elves or robots and ray guns. is marketing nomenclature, not scientific definitions. give an elf a ray gun and you got sci-fantasy?
don't be that guy.
now, back on-topic... why is this good news or bad?
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4E Forgotten Realms
in Pen-and-Paper Gaming
am not a fan o' the fr setting. only way we can see to make more Gromnir-friendly is to take a flamethrower to it and start from scratch.
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its greatest weakness may also be its one saving grace: lack o' identity. can pretty much find anything you want... if you look long enough and hard enough. though why anybody would look so long and hard is beyond our ken. developers sole goal seems to insure that everybody can find something they like. ice cream... thinks o' ice cream flavors. Gromnir likes vanilla and you like chocolate and john likes mint and betty likes coffee. fine. choice is a wonderful thing. problem is that we doubt anybody likes vanillachocolatemintcoffee. Gromnir hates drow as pcs, but developers know that some people love'em... so they purposefully made 'em playable and disproportionate powerful. killed off bane... but some people liked bane, so they resurrect... poorly. give everybody what they want and you end up with something horrible. nevertheless, a clever dm can isolate aspects o fr... find some workable corner of the realms.
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Gromnir ain't target audience for fr setting, so minor/major changes mean little to us.
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