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Mrakvampire
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Posts posted by Mrakvampire
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Basically it means that you can have Pathfinder RPG rules in cRPG and can't use WOTC trademarks like beholders and mind flayers.
Nor call it Pathfinder (unless you have the license, as Obsidian does now), nor d20, nor -- unless you want to risk a lawsuit -- point out that your ruleset is, in fact, a clone.
But yes, other than that, you could. Which is what I've been saying all along.
I hope that after PoE we will see Pathfinder cRPG from Obsidian
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Sorry, my bad: I meant the d20 System Trademark License, not the OGL.
I.e., you can "clone" d20 if you remove all the trademarked elements, and make a computer game based on that. But you can't make a computer game and still use the trademarked elements of d20.
Basically it means that you can have Pathfinder RPG rules in cRPG and can't use WOTC trademarks like beholders and mind flayers.
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Not without a license, and not (directly) for cRPG's. Pathfinder is based on d20 which uses the Open Gaming License, which explicitly forbids computer games. Obs just announced their licensing agreement about Pathfinder games, but they're going to need new mechanics too. Not sure exactly who has the rights to license d20 for computer games, but it certainly can't be done just because you want to.
Yes, I know, I've said, that I decided to remove myself from this forum, but this post is very intersting. :3
Basically, my question is - are you 100% sure? I've read OGL, checked Paizo forums - nobody knows anything about restriction to use OGL in computer games.
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@Mrakvampire: If stats are unbalanced, it means that you'll always allocate them the same way (for any given class). This is very much the case in D&D.
If you end up with the same stats for each class every time, then why even have stats? Where's the meaningful choice in them? Why not just get rid of them and roll those bonuses directly into the classes? If you're always going to pump STR for your fighter because of to-hit and damage bonuses, why not just get rid of STR and give the fighter those bonuses outright?
From where I'm at, stats are only really meaningful for role-play purposes. The D&D ones are fine for PnP. They define what kind of character you're playing. Effectively forcing classes into particular stat distributions detracts from that, rather than improving it. Mechanically they're an unnecessary complication.
You've never played D&D, right? You talk like you have absolutely NO IDEA of how that system work, right? You've never seen moderate STR, but high DEX fighters. Never seen Fighters that have decent INT, cause there were a lot of abilities tied to Combat Expertise feat chain? Why I'm talking to you at all, if you like to talk about things, that you even don't have remote understanding?
No there could be no balance between stats. Never. Some stats are more usefull for certain class, some stats are less usefull, but there is never a situation that every 10 fighters in order to be optimized will have same stats. Absolutely not, cause beyond main role (fighter) there are 10s of subroles that require different stats. Two-handed damage dealer fighter is one type, dual-wealding fighter is another type, archer-fighter is third type, spellcater-bane fighter is 4th type, tank fighter is 5th type, battlefield controller is 6th type...
Oh, hell. I'll leave forums for a while and just wait for PoE release. If devs have some brains, they will make changes. If not - ok, I've already paid for that game, and I will probably play it, but I will definitely not support 'addon' or 'expansion' kickstarter. Bottom line, right now, this confusing, non-intuitive system will not add more buyers to this game, thats for sure.
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They were.
Fallout: pump INT and AGI, the rest are cosmetic. OK, STR if you want to use heavy weapons (although there's no reason really because you'll be able to shoot a gnat in the left eyeball soon enough otherwise).
Arcanum: decide whether you want shoot, melee, throw, magic, or have your buddies do the dirty work for you, and pump the associated attribute. The skill trees even handily tell you when to pump it. If you're a technomancer, never mind INT, just buy those potions from the helpful lady near the city gates; it's useless for anything other than crafting anyway.
The main takeaway from those games is that yes, Virginia, it is possible to design an attribute system that's worse than STR-CON-DEX-INT-WIS-CHA.
(Great games anyway, though. Especially Fallout.)
You've never played melee in Fallout? Low Int characters?
decide whether you want shoot, melee, throw, magic, or have your buddies do the dirty work for you, and pump the associated attributeYou are saying it like... I don't know... maybe you imply that it's somehow bad idea to pump assosiated with your role attribute? Oh no, guys, I can't continue this... :D
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They were.
Fallout: pump INT and AGI, the rest are cosmetic. OK, STR if you want to use heavy weapons (although there's no reason really because you'll be able to shoot a gnat in the left eyeball soon enough otherwise).
I thought luck was generally considered a tier one stat? Not that it really invalidates your point, I guess: it didn't have the greatest stat balance.
Stat balance? Guys, are you serious? Stat balance??? Don't make me laugh so hard, it's painful already.
There is and never was aim to make ahem... "balanced" game. Balance is required in cybersport, guys, not in single-player cRPG.
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The attribute systems of both Fallout and Arcanum were terribad.
LOL
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I'm just curious... Ok, defenders of genious new Obsidian rpg system say we all are D&D fanboys. When I made an example of Fallout system I was told that Fallout has advantage of being tied to... badum-tsss... realistic world. Ok, not problem.
Introducing... ARCANUM. Why, oh, why Arcanum developers hasn't got this genious idea to apply Strength to Mage's spells in that old wonderful game. It would be so innovative!
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People seem to have too much of a D&D mindset on some of the stats. I have noticed in multiple threads people equating might to strength when that is not at all the equivalent. Might is simply in reference to the power of your attack (no matter the type) not a reflection of literal muscle strength. Not sure if people realize the system is set up so you can roll (for example) a wizard with max con and res giving you a hard to interrupt front liner wizard if you want. Its hard to get out of that D&D comparison in our heads but if you do you'll see the potential.
No, I fully understand that. The problem with might is that it's abstract while the other attributes are concrete.
The thing is souls aren't abstract in this world, nor are the ways they tie in to your overall physical condition/abilities.
Oh, in this world souls have muscles, I guess. And there will be 2 portraits in the game - one for my character, another for my soul?
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This system is designed in such a way that you completely drop the attributes with zero problems. Sawyer even said that if he wasn't for IE tradition, the game wouldn't have attributes at all.
Imagine PoE, but with attributes completely removed. Now tell me, what problems are there?
Usage of these attributes doesn't honor IE tradition at all (cause it's so badly implemented, that Dragon Age 2 stats look like ideal standard of rpg system compared to this), so that guy should have dropped them entirely.
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The word 'might' does not necessarily mean physical strength, I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.
It seems that I actually need hamster-human translator... some ppl even don't try to understand what's the issue with current system
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Please change stat system to more classic and easy-to-understand type.
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I try not to base anything on what a 17 year old would understand. I hope for a game much more complex than that.
lol. I've played Baldur's Gate when I was 13. I played PST when I was 14. And I managed to understand everything. So. The question is... no, no question.
Then why is it so hard to understand now?
Cause it's difficult to undestand why in order to hurl powerfull fireballs my wizards should be like Arnold Schwarzenegger - both good at melee and spells. Why? It simply DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. That's why neither I, nor a lot of people understand this system. If I don't understand what exactly stat means - how can I relate to my character? How can you describe person with high 'Might' stat? When it comes to classic self-explanatory stats, let's say, in Fallout....
We have:
Strength - high strength means my character is strong, he has muscles, like Terminator
Perception - also self-explanatory. With hight PER my character can see and hear better, is more focused, and alert.
Endurance - also (!) self-explanatory. How tough is my character. It doesn't give strange bonuses to random attribute only to make it more viable - everything IS LOGICAL.
Same with all other stats. LUCK (self-explanatory), AGILITY - also... etc...
And this is not D&D at all. It's an example of good, logical, easy to understand system, where all stats affect only those aspects of character that is logical.
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You can't claim to have understood every facet of how attributes interact in D&D without reading at least a little. That's all you have to do to understand how Might works.
Of course not. But it was obvious for me, when I was 13, that Strength applies to how hard I hit with my axe, and Charisma applies how good I'm at interactions. Later, I've found out, that Charisma basically affects only minority of things in game, so it can be dumped, still I've never done this from RP purposes. Nevertheless fact, that Charisma is used rarily in BG doesn't mean that system overall is unbalanced, it means only that developers should have added more Charisma checks in game. That's all.
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I try not to base anything on what a 17 year old would understand. I hope for a game much more complex than that.
lol. I've played Baldur's Gate when I was 13. I played PST when I was 14. And I managed to understand everything. So. The question is... no, no question.
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Examples of those games, please.
*rolls eyes* You respond with asking me for a list of every game (RPG) that doesn't have D&D style stats, instead of addressing the fact that most people can read the description for Might and adapt accordingly - and that younger players who haven't spent years playing D&D games will adapt faster than you. That was actually the point of my response, btw - when you said 'if we don't get it, those 17 year olds won't'. But hey, don't let me stop you from focusing on only one aspect of my post.
Dungeon Defenders - RPG, hero stats split into damage/health/casting rate/speed
Borderlands 2 - RPG, no stat system at all.
Skyrim - RPG, the stat system just increases your available HP/MP/Stamina.
Mass Effect - class system
And that's not counting other games that have character progression that don't really label themselves as RPGs, like Payday 2, Dishonored, and Sanctum 2. And it's hardly a comprehensive list because I don't play a huge variety of games.
All games that you've mentioned have INTUITIVE STAT SYSTEM. IN-TU-IT-IV-E. You don't need to read manual to understand that stat called 'damage' should obviously boost... DAMAGE.
You understand what I'm saying, or I need hamster-English translator?
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Some sort of staggered point buy would make Racial and Cultural bonuses matter.
Ugh. Why would you want them to matter? Classes forcing race choices for optimization is one of the things I hate most in DnD.
If they doesn't matter then you should remove them totally. Adding something in system that doesn't matter - is bad game design.
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Wow, wow, wow, concealed developer in the thread. All must be aware!!!
Maybe it's fake account of that guy.. How was his name? Something with Sawyer.
HA! Come on Hamster you do not have to be a dev to know when it is too late for massive changes to a game. They want this out asap. Look at the feedback they asked for. Big sweeping changes suggested will simply be ignored. Even if there were a supermajority of backers calling blood it is unlikely Obsidian can afford to delay.
We'll see, we'll see. After all, Obsidian's reputation is on stake.
I don't think they have to worry about any of you.
Also keep this thread going. Helps me entertain myself.
You should not think at all, I guess.
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I think actually voted wrong and said I liked the current system.
I don't,
I prefer the IE stat system, and the one suggested doesn't seem bad at all.
As it is, Might >>>> everything else, which is pretty weak IMO.
Just press 'delete my vote'
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Yeah, sure. they had other systems with similar stats. It's not always 6 stats, yes, still, from game to game they deviate slightly and I've never encountered non-intuitive stat system in modern rpg. Even in Dragon Age 2 stats were self-explanatory and better, and it's a disturbing sign!
from less D&D-inspired games
Examples of those games, please.
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Wow, wow, wow, concealed developer in the thread. All must be aware!!!
Maybe it's fake account of that guy.. How was his name? Something with Sawyer.
HA! Come on Hamster you do not have to be a dev to know when it is too late for massive changes to a game. They want this out asap. Look at the feedback they asked for. Big sweeping changes suggested will simply be ignored. Even if there were a supermajority of backers calling blood it is unlikely Obsidian can afford to delay.
We'll see, we'll see. After all, Obsidian's reputation is on stake.
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I'm still convinced that game is on early stage of development and changes to stat system can be made. Cause at best we would see PoE in spring 2015.
Obsidian is not opposed to releasing buggy games. Poe will not likely be delayed, and even if it is; it will only be delayed a month or so. Don't expect any radical changes from where we are now. Only tweaks.
"Faith manages" ©
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That is why it's better to stick with old-proven Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma + make sure that each class will have 1 primary stat that should be obviously (intuitevily) maxed and 2-3 secondary stats that will be the fuel of diversity.
It definitely would have been better to utilize the IE attribute system with a few minor tweaks for the sake of variety, but at this stage there's really no point in bringing it up. It won't be changed; so let's focus on the tweaks this new attribute system needs.
I'm still convinced that game is on early stage of development and changes to stat system can be made. Cause at best we would see PoE in spring 2015.
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I would like to see an example of modern western rpg that uses something non-intuitive like "Might".
Gold purchase (iOS)
in Pathfinder Adventures: Technical Support (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
Same issue for me. I've tried 2 times, each time I got no gold at all.
I've sent 2 letters to support@obsidian.net today.
My mail - mrakvampire@yandex.ru