Darji
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Posts posted by Darji
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Oh I am not feeling like a winner her. I feel like the loser. because I lost a fantastic developer which games I adored and loved
Seems like you're missing out because of a stupid joke. Is that really a good choice? I understand that people are upset (OK, I actually don't, because I thought the joke was in bad taste as well, so good riddance!) but it seems like you're ruining your own gaming.
There's a full game to enjoy and as far as I can tell, it doesn't have any sort of political agenda.
Oh I also thought the joke was stupid but again this is not about the joke. It is for me about Censorship. And no it is not a good choice. ts a ****ing awful choice. But as I said before artistic freedom is more important to me...
And As I said before I can not even bring up to play the game anymore because I am so dissapointed in Obsidian. Is it stupid of course it is. But I can not help it at all this is how I feel. It is not rational it is emotional.
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This is the greatest fight of our lifetimes. Fifty years from now, your grandkids will ask you about this day, and you'll tell them how you braved the flames of the internet in a stand against censorship.
And they'll look up at you, their eyes brimming with tears, and they'll say "Grandpa, you tell the worst stories."
No becasue this will not exist anymore
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Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case.
I don't believe I ever claimed that to be the case - I am pointing out that being told by a loud minority to change something is NOT censorship. The choice is still in their own hands. Of course you can debate the legitimacy of the concept of self-censorship, which is pretty much the core of the drama as far as most people seem to be concerned.
If Obsidian caves this easily to a small group of loudmouthed people (who arguably haven't even played the game for the most part judging by twitter responses), what will be next on the "I am a minority and feel offended by ___"? And how will this sort of behaviour affect the universe, story and future content that is still on the drawing board.
I do not care what it does or not does. And even if it was just some small stone which it basically is. It is the principle of someone being offended by something most people do not even agree and then it get changed. IT is ridiculous how worse this **** has gotten thanks to twitter and co. No one ever should carve in to nutjobs and Yes Obsidian did exactly that and while I am no expressing my anger. I will also never by a Product of Obsidian since I am totally against censorship in any form.
I live in Germany and I have to go against a ton of censorship regarding violence or nazi symbols in video games. It is just disgusting to me. Especially when there even was a mod to remove this messages. There was no need at all to remove this but now Obsdian has done it and now they have to live with the consequences. And how big they are will we see with their next game. Which I will certainly not buy. And many other people here seem to be the same.
Okay, but you do realize that in having such an overblown reaction to this all you're doing is further validating what these people are saying, right? That they made some sort of grandiose victory in getting a backer poem in a memorial changed, even if it doesn't actually affect the game in any way. Let's say, hypothetically, that everyone suddenly stops supporting Obsidian, not because of the gameplay, not because of the design or the writing or the quality of the work, but simply because the backer poem was changed, with the backer's consent mind you. Let's assume, hypothetically, that Obsidian goes out of business and stops producing games. Who benefits in this regard? The very people you dislike, who want to see art removed.
I hope you see the irony in this
Oh I am not feeling like a winner her. I feel like the loser. because I lost a fantastic developer which games I adored and loved. Right now I am just really upset and in a few days I will just not care anymore what Obsidian is doing, I am done with this tomorrow and you will never see me here again. Also I do not play games because of the game play anymore. I play games because of the Story. That is why I love Obsidian games but I i love artistic freedom more than a developer.
And no because there will hopefully always someone who does not carve into censorship and these are the people I will support. Will they be as good as Obsidian in terms of writing? I really doubt. it. As I said I already lost and I feel upset about it.
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Obsidian is one of the few companies left still willing to make old school RPGs, both 'SJW' and anti-SJW sides are now detracting from this goal. I hope you all realize what you're doing. EA is probably laughing their asses off. Good job.
No. This would be a complete non-issue if the bigots hadn't thrown a fit.
Go read the replies to the other thread. Someone actually vowed to undermine everything Obsidian ever does. The reaction is completely, hilariously, out of proportion.
Money, marketing and PR is only thing they understand. Boycott and speech is only tools consumer has, as such advocacy is best thing a consumer can do when they come across immoral practises. Recent months have show just how deep problems the industry has, something must be done for better tomorrow. And few bad apples dying of is small price to pay.
Oh yeah or it backfires like it does right now in Indiana where a pizzeria got almost 1 million of funding.
Yeah and apples. People who are for free speech and artistic freedom are now the bad apples. Wow you world views are so screwed..... I feel pity for you.
Also better tomorrow huh? You know angered the people who is buying a lot of ****. Many of the people who gave you a second chance just to place some crazy people. Lets see how this plays out with their next game.
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Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case.
I don't believe I ever claimed that to be the case - I am pointing out that being told by a loud minority to change something is NOT censorship. The choice is still in their own hands. Of course you can debate the legitimacy of the concept of self-censorship, which is pretty much the core of the drama as far as most people seem to be concerned.
If Obsidian caves this easily to a small group of loudmouthed people (who arguably haven't even played the game for the most part judging by twitter responses), what will be next on the "I am a minority and feel offended by ___"? And how will this sort of behaviour affect the universe, story and future content that is still on the drawing board.
I do not care what it does or not does. And even if it was just some small stone which it basically is. It is the principle of someone being offended by something most people do not even agree and then it get changed. IT is ridiculous how worse this **** has gotten thanks to twitter and co. No one ever should carve in to nutjobs and Yes Obsidian did exactly that and while I am no expressing my anger. I will also never by a Product of Obsidian since I am totally against censorship in any form.
I live in Germany and I have to go against a ton of censorship regarding violence or nazi symbols in video games. It is just disgusting to me. Especially when there even was a mod to remove this messages. There was no need at all to remove this but now Obsdian has done it and now they have to live with the consequences. And how big they are will we see with their next game. Which I will certainly not buy. And many other people here seem to be the same.
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Censorship is definitely the wrong term to use here - No one is being legally forced to do anything.
Caving to certain loud minorities on the other hand...
I like the new poem as a backhand to offendatrons.
That said, the original submission should've stayed.
Knowing the tenacity of modders who feel scorned, I'm sure we'll see a travelling bard version with full VO reciting these Limericks somewhere in the game as a mod. It's bound to happen.
Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case.
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I like the new poem as a backhand to offendatrons.
That said, the original submission should've stayed.
Oh it makes clearly fun of that person for sure. But this is not about this. It is about censorship and the principle why you as artist should never give into these crazy people.
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this needs to continue as it was an important discussion on the merits of censorship
No. It's a bunch of anti-SJ idiots throwing a fit, as usual. Anyone who thinks this has anything to do with censorship is an ignorant tool.
Obs did the right thing.
*Gets the popcorn*
I think you should look up the definition of censorship.
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This thread
Yeah I am sorry but I have no intention of playing more POE now I should never play Bloodborne angry...
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A few people on a forum does not a **** storm make. Most people don't give a crap, and are actually just playing the game.
Forums very rarely reflect reality.
Just like Twitter.
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Like their critics are using Gamergate graphics. In other words, prettt ****ing justified.
How do you feel now Obsidian?
Like the other ones using words like problematic and toxic. Have you heard about Patton Oswalt's newest Twitter rant? This fits right into it. And he was even someone who said a lot of stuff against gamergate.
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Down with censorship in any form
Let freedom live again
Trans people should be able to speak their minds even if offenceive
Bigots should be allowed to speak their minds even if their word offend
Gays should be allowed to speak their minds even if some find it offensive
Indeed all should be allowed to speak their minds no matter what they content of their statements
Let the freedom of speech live, in the true sense not just the legal
Can game designers change something about their game if they want as well? Or is that not covered?
Yes but this game was already released. And people felt being offended by it. Because when this happens and you change something people will always fight against censorship. Even if it not was. The possibility that it was is way too high. And when you as a developer in this hell hole you will not get out unscratched. And this is happening now.
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Why the **** does this twitter blight of a person have so much more power over the people who funded the game, and its other paying customers?
Welcome to the world of twitter in which even the smallest outrage can lead to censorship. And these people know exactly how to do this. They perfected their game of being professional victims. You need money? Go make a patreon page and say how much you are being oppressed.
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What part of my post was wrong? Can you show me where alcohol was mentioned in the limerick? Because you're telling me that I'm misreading the poem by inserting transphobia and homophobia while simultaneously asserting that there was alcohol involved. I just want you to show me where the poem mentions alochol.
The part where you imply that the limerick was written with the sole intent and purpose to repress the homosexuals and transgendered people, when it is clearly entirely up to personal and subjective reason. Also - to quote the typical television or motion picture. [No Transgendered people were harmed during filming], which is entirely on point since the only one to get hurt here is the poor bloke who ended up in bed with something he didn't expect or wish and fell to his death.
"Fell" to his death. Instead of killing himself because he was ashamed that he slept with someone who was 1) presenting themself as a woman and, 2) was, in fact, a male.
If there's anyone who is painting the poem in a certain light in order to serve his agenda, it's the flagrant bigots flooding this thread.
Because he was an idiot... For ****s sake... This whole thing makes fun of the guy killing himself and not the may or not trans person.
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Because even many transsexual people thought this is ridiculous. And I am sorry but there are far fewer nut jobs out there than moderate ones. And these moderate ones are now fighting against censorship. And thank you for insulting me.
Did they really? Which ones? How many?
First of all you should show me how many people were against this joke and that it was not a minority. Then I will show you that. Deal? Oh wait you can not. And I am sorry I am done talking to you since I do not want to talk to people who insult me.
So have a good day.
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How is it logical to respond to the supposed notion that Obsidian is giving into angry mob demands by making angry mob demands of your own? Isn't that just as, if not worse than what the "SJW" people are doing? "I'm going to undermine everything Obsidian does financially." Really? That's what you are going to do?
As a gay man myself, I had no issue with the joke in question, or any of the others I have seen. I'm not easily offended and I really don't care what some gamer nerd thinks about my lifestyle.
Even if they did "give in" to the "demands," how exactly does that spell out the end of Obsidian (and from what some of you are suggesting, THE WORLD ITSELF?) Seriously, with all these new threads popping up, you guys are making more of an issue out of it than the idiots who took issue in the first place. Responding to a minority of "Having a female/gay/black character that isn't 100% against the stereotype is pure evil" touters by insulting the entire LGBT community (seriously, even when it's a feminist or racial issue, you guys always point to LGBT :/ ) any different?
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I found the limerick amusing. I just find the overall reaction to the situation hilariously bigoted and some of the comments here are not only irrational, but dangerously hateful and outright hurtful.
That makes Obisidians decision even more stupid. It was a very very small minority who was offended by it and they gave in. Now they get the backlash much much bigger since a lot of people apparently do not like censorship. Go figure.
Small minority? Says who? For all you know, you bigots could be the loud minority and there can be a silent majority. "Small minority" is your limited perception of the situation.
Because even many transsexual people thought this is ridiculous. And I am sorry but there are far fewer nut jobs out there than moderate ones. And these moderate ones are now fighting against censorship. And thank you for insulting me. I have reported your post. Isnt free speech great?
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How is it logical to respond to the supposed notion that Obsidian is giving into angry mob demands by making angry mob demands of your own? Isn't that just as, if not worse than what the "SJW" people are doing? "I'm going to undermine everything Obsidian does financially." Really? That's what you are going to do?
As a gay man myself, I had no issue with the joke in question, or any of the others I have seen. I'm not easily offended and I really don't care what some gamer nerd thinks about my lifestyle.
Even if they did "give in" to the "demands," how exactly does that spell out the end of Obsidian (and from what some of you are suggesting, THE WORLD ITSELF?) Seriously, with all these new threads popping up, you guys are making more of an issue out of it than the idiots who took issue in the first place. Responding to a minority of "Having a female/gay/black character that isn't 100% against the stereotype is pure evil" touters by insulting the entire LGBT community (seriously, even when it's a feminist or racial issue, you guys always point to LGBT :/ ) any different?
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I found the limerick amusing. I just find the overall reaction to the situation hilariously bigoted and some of the comments here are not only irrational, but dangerously hateful and outright hurtful.
That makes Obisidians decision even more stupid. It was a very very small minority who was offended by it and they gave in. Now they get the backlash much much bigger since a lot of people apparently do not like censorship. Go figure.
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The dramatic overreaction in this thread is ridiculous.
I understand why some people might be sensitive to a joke like that but it was ultimately harmless and the reaction in the first place was an exaggeration anyway. I never like to see content in games changed or censored because someone got upset, but sometimes it's better to be safe.
However, Obsidian handled this in the best way they could have short of not paying any mind to it at all, the backer wrote a new limerick making fun of the first one being removed, nothing was even lost at that point.
Half of you are reacting as bad or worse than the complaints about the limerick in the first place, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.
As long as the Backer got a limerick in the game (Which they obviously did) and honestly I think it was improved because of what it means now.
They aren't going to respond to every complaint and change the game into another game based on that, that's just ridiculous.
Don't act like Fox News guys.
No the best option would have been a toggle for disabling backer messages. Anything else is just unacceptable for me.
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I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.
and what motives are those?
My motives are a hatred of censorship, I grew up in a county where they told us we had free speech, well across the course of my life I've watched it disappear
and vanish before my very eyes. you have to be careful what you say at almost any moment because there are dire consequences to saying things that offend people.
shall we all show our mouths shut?
All of us will intentionally or not offend some one with our words it happens but we must be allowed to speak those words or freedom is dead
this man PAID to say those words and obsidian took the away more than a refund is in order!
Are you being arrested for expressing offensive opinions (that are not inciting violence)? No? Congratulations, your free speech rights are fine.
I am sorry but if you believe that censorship can only be done through the government you are really naive. Especially in this day and age....
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I think some people may be confusing an expression of frustration and anger with, y'know, actual serious genocidal wishes, hmm?
So the person who said Tr,... is not angry and frustrated?
also Why I always have the feeling you are Brianna Wu?....
I have no idea who that is, but given that you're the one making the comparison, I think I'll view it as a likely compliment.
I'm sure they are angry and frustrated. The difference is in the amount of power that the respective people's negative opinions have to contribute to genuine harm for their target group members' lives.
I think you would like Brianna Wu pretty much. Just search for her on twitter.
I am sorry but if your life is in danger because of something like that. You have much much bigger problems and you need professional help very very fast.
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I feel better now that everyone's true motives are coming out now.
Me too freedom of speech goes always both ways. Again Indiana Pizzeria. And the sad thing is I do not even have anything against homosexuals since I am for equality... I just applaud the backlash people who have threaten these people get...
Thank you SJW you made me feel dirty....
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I think some people may be confusing an expression of frustration and anger with, y'know, actual serious genocidal wishes, hmm?
So the person who said Tr,... is not angry and frustrated?
also Why I always have the feeling you are Brianna Wu?....
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If you think calling someone a tranny and misgendering them is ok then that's I need to know about this outrage.
If you call me a CIS I also know what I need to know about you. And yes this word is being used more and more like a slur.
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Honestly, if you're not transgender then you'll never understand what it's like to live in a society that simultaneously fetishes you and yet hates you and laughs about killing you. The fact that Obsidian listened and modified the joke is a rare concession from a society that loathes us. And it's not like we evil trans feminists are going to root through all your favorite games and maliciously remove everything you like. And if you genuinely feel the game is made less because of this joke's removal, then that says a lot about the kind of person you are.
I have news for you. There were also many transgender people who thought that this is ridiculous. But yeah always listen to the crazy ones who are shouting **** like kill all men.
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Limerick edit thread 2
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
oh yeah now we are going the not every censorship is bad...
YES EVERY FORM OF CENSORSHIPOT IS BAD....
Its like saying racism against white people is not as bad as racism against black people....
Seriously.. There is no different. There is no good or bad discrimination. there are no differences at all....