Valorian

He's making combat much less appealing by removing a significant incentive to engage in combat.

No. You have a nice avatar though, because Ryu is exceptionally sexy. Let's leave it at that.

Talking, lots of talking, is also a core component of the game. Do you get XP for talking to people? Answer; no. Are you no longer talking to any of the NPC's in the gameworld? I guess not. So, why is there this problem with combat? Yes, you do. In fact, most quests involve lots and lots of talking. Should you get xp for exchanging a few meaningless words with a peasant or passerby? Surely not, like you'd get no xp for killing them or sneaking around them.

Nope, it wouldn't. If a group was scripted to give XP only once for sneaking past them. And if you kill them after that you'd get no xp either.

: Hence people who like their jobs refuse to get paid for it and instead get moneyz by doing side quests. My really needs some rest away from dejenereshoun . Because Playing a game is like a job to you that you dont like. Incorrect. Playing a game is like doing a job I like. The rest of your post falls down like a house of cards, as the consequence of your fallacious premise.

Of course it's simple. And effective. But it's even simpler to just throw nuances of XP out of the window and dump all into quest xp.

I actually wasn't being sarcastic, so, you are sadly incorrect. Also, you cannot "attempt" sarcasm. You are either being sarcastic or you are not. It is a style of communication, not a puzzle or challenge. You can be sarcastic to no effect, or to much effect, but you are still being sarcastic or you aren't. Oh.. so it wasn't a sad attempt at sarcasm when you wrote: "Do away with quest XP all together", and you actually support this position? Ok. People try being (intelligently) sarcastic all the time, but their "sarcasm" often turns out being just an irrelevant and obtuse mess of words. You're a prime example. "We consider tactical combat to be a core component of the game." If (tactical) combat wasn't marketed as being a core component of the game, then I guess I'd be fine with no combat XP. "We consider picking up flowers a core component of the game." Then I'd be fine with getting experience for picking flowers up.

RL economy works quite differently than handing out XP in games. Most people would, I think, prefer to get paid more often (so that they don't have to wait until the end of the month), but in a game there's no reason to not reward the player immediately after completing a job, like killing an orc.

Are you trying to turn my Cat against Helm? Because that won't happen.. We both believe he's fighting for a good cause.

Ehm, no... they just get paid A LOAN (goal completion, or usually, a month work), instead of PER HOUR (per kill). Do you have a great post on how loans are bad and everyone should be paid by the hour or everyone stops working? I would love to read it... : People are paid per hour (kill). That's why you get paid more if you work overtime/overhours. That's why you get paid less if you take days off. * gives link* http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/overtime.htm

I lend my to Helm from time to time. likes him. : Hence people who like their jobs refuse to get paid for it and instead get moneyz by doing side quests. My really needs some rest away from dejenereshoun .

Because it's quite possible that these options need different amounts of skill/time/resources, on a case by case scenario.

There is an obvious reason why in P&P it's preferable to spread out XP gain. In P&P it's humans doing the math and keeping track of things, in a computer game... it's the computer.

You mean sneak naked. True warriors always sneak for quest xp you know. True.

Yeah, seems that all those countless hours of you observing how I play rpgs finally paid off. Next time, I'll instruct my rogue to dual stab himself in the kidney with his stilettos to become less powerful. Doesn't matter that he usually favors style over raw power, having less companions to increase challenge and limits resting/reloading/killing random encounters for the same purpose. That's simply not enough. Off with your light armor, stilettos.. and fight naked, munchkin!

I'm not sure about that. I'd marry only a manly man, not a logorrheic fruitcake.

I'll start. There is no need to level scale even those special crit path encounters with clever design of plot pacing. Edit for PJ: Logorrhea: excessive use of words. Fits perfectly.

Would be nice if we could go back to the original purpose of the thread (level scaling) now that there's a topic for combat XP and why it's not degenerate. Oh, I see that Lephys and PJunta are still in logorrheic rampage mode and won't stop anytime soon.

: *attempts at sarcasm* : *kitty wonders who suggested quest XP removal* Sarcasm is meaningful only when it's the result of connecting facts and using logic.

The degeneration is actually a very interesting topic. Even Cat solves degenereshoun efficiently. Once upon a time there was this degeneration of killing quest givers after completing the quest. You don't have to reward xp for that if you script it differently. Then there was this huge problem of being able to genocide whole towns and villages for XP. (Who cares about the consequences for doing so, anyway.) Townfolk and peasants don't have to give more than 0 XP. Dear Lord, and what about grinding!? No respawns or no XP for respawns and generic random encounters? Diplomats and sneakers will surely be at a huge disadvantage if people who defeat monsters get XP for doing so! If they design the game so that selecting dialogue options or sneaking past enemies is as complex and time/resource consuming as defeating monsters, then sure, you should get some XP for avoiding a combat encounter. Now it's about things being systemic. *cat shrieks with laughter*

Sorry, Val, but if you can't be arsed to read JES's concise and excellent explanation of what degenerate strategy means, I'm not going to do your homework for you. I was, of course, referring to your example of "degenerate tactics". But you avoid to answer again, ok, let's move on. Joshua's example doesn't involve degenerate tactics as a result of having combat XP. It involves degenerate design of letting the players get XP by subsequently killing quest givers when they clearly don't want that to happen 'coz they find it "degenerate". It has nothing to do with combat XP. Because having endless respawns adds nothing to the game, other than eventually annoyance. They would constantly respawn.. what for, precisely? If they don't drop loot* or give xp? So that someone can kill them over and over again for no reason whatsoever? *If they do drop loot then it's a source of endless gold. It's a lose-lose situation.

Concentrate. I quoted your post where you call it "degenerate tactics". Why is it degenerate tactics? Leave XP aside for now because it causes even greater confusion in your head. No, it's not something I enjoy doing. If they were hostile I'd kill them, if they weren't and asked for mercy I'd spare them. The problem is... infinite XP and gold (loot). So instead of removing combat XP, remove endless respawns. There probably would be an in-game rationale for going to the toilet very often, but it doesn't mean it's needed or beneficial to the overall experience.

The degeneration is only in your head. There is nothing "degenerate" about using stealth to get an item and later coming back to kill some lizards. And you can't "grind", it's not a MMO, unless the devs are blessed with the utter intelligence perk and include endless random encounters and respawns.

See, even you can express your point of view in a succinct manner without going into a logorrheic frenzy. Bravo!

If that happens, they will have seriously failed. P:E is a combat-heavy game. I would expect sneaking to require trickier and more specialized parties. Regarding loot.. There's one important thing to keep in mind. A party that consistently avoids combat is much less dependent on loot/money than a party that fights its way through monsters. Consumables and expensive weapons/shields/armor matter much more to a combat focused party.