Leferd
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Posts posted by Leferd
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oops.
by Atreas i meant Kreia.
kreia = nomi
atris = vima
i hope that makes more sense.
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wild speculation:
Kreia and Atris = Sunriders in hiding?
It would work with the Master/Apprentice theme the devs were talking about. Vima being resentful of how Nomi ignored training her.
There was some talk of how Kreia was supposed to be a mysterious mentor type figure to the PC. Maybe some sort of atonement? Atris/Vima resentful of it...keeping her dark side anger in check while remembering her cherished memories of her own mentor --Ulic Qel-Droma.
Parallels the original trilogy in a way too: Kreia/Nomi being the Ben Kenobi figure seeking atonement for failure of training Anakin with Nomi's failure to train Atris/Vima.
"Help me Nomi Sunrider, you're my only hope."
just some WILD speculation.
*edited names
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*putting on geek hat and using comic book guy voice*
Well actually...Vima was four years old during the events of the Sith War. KoTOR took place 40 years (or was it 30?) after it. Bioware could have easily had the story take place 20 years after it (if they wanted to make Bastila/Vima in her 20's.
Bioware actually did not (as I am sure Obsidian) have full access to the SW property. All storylines, characters, etc., had to be approved by Lucasfilm/Lucasarts. They could not make any changes or add ons to the game during the development cycle without their approval.
This is the case with all licensed property.
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Bioware has too many projects going on at this time to follow up on KoTOR. They are more interested in developing their own IP then working with a crutch that is the "licensed property."
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Actually...I generally find most of Anderson's writing to be quite dull. Compared to Veitch, it's a huge improvement.
The story of Exar Kun in tandem with Ulic Qel-Droma's plunge to the dark side did make fun reading though. Made his redemption so much more...(now that would be a spoiler)
Since we are on the subject of the comics, I read somewhere that Bastila was originally supposed to be Vima Sunrider (Nomi's daughter), but that idea was scratched. It certainly could have made sense within KoTOR's general plotline. I wonder if hmmm....Obsidian can/will revisit this character...or are there licensing conflicts associated with directly using these characters?
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I have to disagree with you regarding Veitch. Now I'm not familiar with his work outside of SW but as a SW comic book writer...he's a hack. I'll give credit where its due: He's got some really terrific ideas for storylines and character concepts but he is a terrible writer. His stories didn't pace very well. Too many words in too few pages. Ridiculous dialogue.
To be honest, I haven't read "Golden Age of the Sith" or "Fall of the Sith Empire" but I believe Kevin Anderson wrote those along with "Sith War" and "Redemption". I believe Exar Kun was a Kevin Anderson created character.
Anderson collaborated with Veitch on "Dark Lords of the Sith" and that was when I could see Anderson's influence on Veitch's writing. But when Anderson took full control on "The Sith War" --the storyline became so much clearer and the dialogue less banal.
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"The first book of Tales of the Jedi is called The Golden Age of the Sith"
...from a certain point of view. Actually the first series written of Tales of the Jedi was called "Ulic Qel-Droma and the Beast Wars of Onderon." Together with "The Saga of Nomi Sunrider" they made up "Knights of the Old Republic" in trade paperback form.
"The Golden Age of the Sith" was written years later but is the first to take place chronologically in EU's timeline.
Personally, I found that of all the 'Tales of the Jedi'...only "Sith War" and especially "Redemption" were really good reads. The rest were mediocre. The stories were fine, but the art and dialogue were just atrocious.
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Ender, I totally disagree with your views but i respect your arguements. Vault, i think bush is horrible but your "arguements" are just sad.
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To be fair,
I dislike the Bush administration. Especially the Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft faction. Really the only saving grace of this administration as far as my opinion goes lies with Colin Powell. Even then, I dislike his son (who heads the FCC).
Michael Moore is a good film maker. He's not really a political documentarian. Leave that to guys like Errol Morris.
Moore has a tendency to overstate his case. His films are very good at mobilizing the liberal crowd and pissing off conservatives. Such as how President Bush the Second is good at doing the exact opposite.
What Moore did in Fahrenheit was present an arguement. He does not try to be balanced with it. What he is trying to do is spark debate and try to remove the Bush administration from office. This film is strictly an opinion piece, and it is up to the viewer to decide whether his arguements are valid or BS.
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Bush is certainly unique. It is true that Bush is the only US President with a Master's degree. An MBA.
Most Presidents were Lawyers or Generals in background.
hmmm....war....profit....mba....
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Haha. Agreed. The man is just so full of himself. Let him write the story. Let him be the executive producer. But good grief!!!! --let someone else write the screenplay, edit, direct, and produce!
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Was obsessed with the OT in my teens.
The prequels suck - but not fatally so.
Read the early novels before I realized most were crap.
Enjoyed the Zahn Trilogy and the Rogue Squadron books.
Enjoyed the Rogue Squadron comic books.
Read the Tales of the Jedi series of comics:
KoTOR = lousy art and dialogue
Dark Lords of the Sith = better
Sith War = good epic type fun
Redemption = recommended. an emotional story of personal redemption
Also own Luke and Han in Hoth uniform and Boba Fett action figures.
Enjoyed the X-wing/Tie Fighter Series of games.
Enjoyed Rebellion SW tactical game despite its many bugs and flaws.
Very Deeply enjoyed Bio's KoTOR. More so because of it living up to the spirit of the OT and having read the TotJ comics.
I suppose that makes me a tweener: recovering nut/enthusiast
Ender - I like your ideas for ep 1.
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Maria C,
I guess...we agree. hmm...how odd....
ALTHOUGH, Bioware still drew directly from the the original story arc as a basis for their own story.
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"That's the plot of half the fantasy novels I've ever read.."
I'm not trying to be flippant but....DUH!
It's called the "Hero's Journey", or "Hero's Quest", or awww hell....go read Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" or watch/read "The Power of Myth".
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books
What made the original Trilogy so great as a story was that it was based on the worlds' cumulative mythology. Lucas (and other fantasy writers) took the familiar elements of hero stories and made it their own. This "Hero's Journey" is formulaic. It is copied over and over again. Why? Because it works. Because people become satisfied with it. Because it has lasted for as long as literature has been around. Bioware paid homage to Lucas who used Campbell's research who articulated the combined mythology of the different cultures of this world.
I really happen to like the Rakata. Bioware did an admirable job conceptualizing this race --and reinterpreting the Hero's Journey. It's a shame Obsidian decided against using the Rakata. Lot of potential there.
Edit: added link.
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puhleeze. KoTOR was a direct homage to the original trilogy. (which in itself was inspired from numerous sources: among them Joe Campbell and Kurosawa)
Characters: It's safe to say that many of the character types resemble those from the trilogy. I have to assume we don't need to go there.
Plot -Lightside: hero finds himself in situation of world (galaxy) shattering peril. Hero gets recruited to rescue damsel in distress.
Hero discovers special talents. Hero undertakes training in remote world to learn skills. hero learns about the peril of going evil. Hero undertakes mission to destroy weapon of evil. Before hero does that, he undergoes personal revelation that turns upside down his own conception of the enemy. Hero is confronted with his personal demon and truimphs. Along the way, weapon gets destroyed by friends.
Theme (lightside): Redemption. Han Solo redeems himself. Obi Wan redeems himself. Lando redeems himself. Darth Vader redeems himself. Revan redeems himself. Bastila redeems herself. Juhani redeems herself. Yuthara Ban redeems herself. Other characters redeem themselves.
Puhleeze. KoTOR was designed from the get go to please fans of the original trilogy by making the game a direct homage to the trilogy.
BTW: Elder Rakatans are kool. They too sought redemption.
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"However, I do agree that the new NPCs should be more origional then the ones in the first KOTOR. Not that the origional NPCs weren't interesting, but most of them had been done...you had your chewie look alike...your Obi-Wan (Joe lee), R2, C3PO that wasn't gay, Solo (Mission)......the only real origional characters were Bastilla, and Juhani"
Well...maybe it was too obvious for your own good....but the whole idea of KoTOR was to redo the Original Star Wars Trilogy. The game wasn't meant or designed to be original at all. How people can connect the dots but not see the picture they drew, i don't understand at all....
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rakatans would definitely be an intriguing choice. they're certainly more interesting than selkaths, wookies, rodians etc. And I agree, the aztek analogy was a good one for...the one.
however...an elder in this case make for a more interesting npc. perhaps as a non-jedi advisor type? Maybe not so much a playable npc as one you'd bring along on the ebon hawk to reveal more of the protaganist's journey along the way? A cross between a master vandar, jolee, and...egads! deckard cain?
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hmmm...an addendum:
triCritical: Insecure with his street cred. Tries too hard but...Mostly harmless.
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I was being cheeky with that statement. Me and Volourn share that same problem. Oh the irony!
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re: flip flopper. Didn't Gaider tell you to shut *and i quote* 'the hell up' once? for just that thing??
I say "reasonable" because you don't seem to froth in the mouth and turn blue in the face when you're trying to make a point. Of course...Having reasonable points and having valid points are not necessarily non-mutually exclusive however
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Gromnir: A rough, smug, but fair critic. Ingenious writing style and like Socrates, a baiter of high skill and degree.
Hades One: Nauseating. Grating. Entertaining in a good way.
Volourn: Flip Flopper who at times is reasonable.
Newc: Haughty and doesn't show much humor to compensate. But intelligent.
EnderWiggin: Intelligent but is too much of a cowboy. Tendency to shoot without aiming.
Karzak: Over the top and unreasable. Funny and witty.
Sargallath: NOT original. Doesn't have Karzak's panache or Gromnir's cleverness. Atrocious writing style. Dense. But a personality nonetheless.
btw...what happened to old old board personalities: mencar pebblecrusher and the one with that elf fetish...lanfear?
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Spending countless hours reading posts on gaming messageboards while contemplaiting going outside and playing ultimate frisbee.
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1) Compelling NPCs with more interjections and perhaps debate
2) Good storytelling
3) When playing a darksider--make the evil options worthy of Vader. Nothing trivial or petty.
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BTW GWB actually did not get his master's degree at Yale. You certainly have a good grasp of the facts....
For you trivia buffs -Woodrow Wilson had a PhD from Johns Hopkins and a law degree from Univ. of Virginia.
AND yes. Former Pres. hopeful Gen. Wesley Clark (1st in his class at West Point) and Bill Clinton are from Arkansas and both attended Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship.
Exar Kun War
in Star Wars: General Discussion
Posted
Well the story of Ulic and Exar Kun are connected and told in Dark Lords of the Sith and The Sith War:
SPOILERS
*once again putting on geek hat*
Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were both powerful jedi who approached the dark side for different reasons and in different ways. Kun was a relatively unknown jedi who and nasty bugger who was interested in gaining more power and learning the forbidden knowledge of Sith teachings. He was goaded/tempted by Sith spirits and embraced the dark side. Ulic Qel-Droma was a famous and well known hero of the republic. He did not have the thirst in knowledge that Kun had but was already satisfied and proud of his own abilities.
There was an uprising in far off star system and it was discovered that the instigators of this uprising were powered by the dark side and sith teachings. Ulic believed that the best way to defeat this menace was to learn the secrets of the dark side and destroy them from within. His master Arca, brother Cay, and his lover Nomi Sunrider tried to dissuade him to no avail. He was confident in his own ability to resist the dark side. So of course...his own pride got the best of him and he joined this uprising and became their leader. The unthinkable happened as the greatest and most reknowned of the Jedi fell to the dark side.
Eventually he teamed up with Exar Kun and became his sith apprentice as they became the Dark Lords of the Sith .
Ulic recruited the Mandalorian clans to join his war and he became the military general of the Sith fleet while Exar Kun sought to convert and eradicate the Jedi. The details of this war was relayed in KoTOR by the Jedi Council and Jolee Bindo.
Kun eventually retreated to Yavin 4. As for Ulic, his brother Cay tried to bring him back to the light side but was killed by Ulic in combat. Ulic could not believe what he had done and that was when he abandoned the dark side. However it was too late as at that moment Nomi Sunrider in semi-rage used her power to permanantly block the Force from Ulic. (similiar to the PC in KoTOR 2)
Ulic then spent the rest of his life seeking isolation and a quiet death -full of grief and guilt until Nomi's daughter, Vima tracked him down so she could be trained in the ways of the jedi.