dunniteowl

It was mentioned at the end of the Blog report that accusations of plagiarism were so rampant that it made judging the contest impossible and was thus cancelled. That one issue, with all it entails and implies saddens me for the sake of the Community. Once the accusations get thrown out there, justified or not, the doubt and mistrust it engenders are never of any benefit to the Community as a whole. So I am sorry to hear what could have been a great showcase of talent ended in such a way. Whoever is truly responsible for this (and you know who you are,) in any way, may you repent and change your ways. May you not have a good night's sleep or comfort in the day until justice is truly served. Meanwhile, I look forward to the next contest. I am definitely going to enter this one just to up the level of my creative activity. Also, thanks Rob for the blog update. BTS never fails to impress with the talent and little details that make each item unique in it's own way. RWS -- same to you folks. Truly fantastic work, folks, KUDOS! best regards, dunniteowl

Actually I have experimented a bit with trees and their seed values. I have several areas that I created with massive amounts of trees and with a very wide array of seed values for them. In general, I have made 4 medium sized areas 16x12, 8x14, 12x12 & 8x32 and just absolutely loaded them down with a variety of trees/plants and seed values for same. In each area I used approximately 12 different Tree types, each with varying seed values approaching 12 seeds per tree type. This means that in some of these areas, I have 12x12 types of unique trees according to the specifications listed in Developer responses. I grant that I have not placed anything other than trees, plants and grasses in these areas (though I used a fair amount of grass types as well) and, while there are no encounters, transitions, area effect triggers, convos, etc., the movement performance of a character in the areas while testing to see how they look has been just fine. I think the original recommendations were no more than 20 unique seed/tree variants for performance related reasons. I am running an AMD X2 5000+ (meaning two separate cores running at 2.3GHz each) with 2GB DDR2 RAM @ 800MHz FSB. My specs allow for a bit more lattitude compared with recommended specs, however, I am sure that what I am 'pulling off' is not that special in terms of performance at this time compared to what I perceive is 'average' system specs on most machines. (Note, while 144 individually 'unique' trees are being used, there are, quite literally several hundred trees of each species, making the total number of each 'unique' plant/tree value approach 30-100 each of each type, depending on the look I was after. The larger forested areas literally have close to two thousand trees as placeables in them.) Still, if I could rotate a tree a bit, that would make all the difference visually speaking (though I admit, scaling does really make some differences as well and could mean enough difference to lose the "patterned" look to some areas' trees that I have seen.) Of course, I haven't been doing all this to test the system, I just didn't care about the specs when I made the areas. I was sort of doing my best to see how 'realistic' I could make an area in the outdoors. In fact, until I had made the 3rd test area, I didn't even think about the recommended performance settings of 4-5 unique tree types with 3-5 separate seed values. I just told my self, "Make this look as realistic as you can." As I gain more experience with scripting and running more tests, I will revisit these areas and add in encounters triggers and more placeables to see what happens. Also, admittedly, I have been making these areas in mind with giving the adventurer a sense of scope to travel (meaning a lot of unique little areas) during an adventure, most of them having only one to three encounters of any sort within them in the first place. This being the case, I am pretty sure that the "pushing" I have been doing in terms of the performance envelopes will prove noteworthy at some time. Meanwhile, if it requires a whole nother render of a 'new' model for a rotated version of one already, then forget it. I already have methods to break up the pattern of sameness and am also working on extending the regions of performance (in terms of proof of performance for amount of unique items) such that this one request is not all that important. It would be nice to have, though, just as a quicker way to make things seem unique without having to resort to the constant seed value changes, or rescaling of objects. my 32 cents on the matter... dunniteowl

Agreed. This one thing would make all the difference in making forests, or even simple tree lined streets. I know there's magic and all, but I just don't see the wizards of NeverWinter spending the time (nor the merchant class spending the gold) to have all the trees look exactly the same. So, I suppose I would vote to have this too as it's frustrated me as well. regards, dunniteowl

I like that there is a lot of green on that list. Bodes well for the future. I have yet to feel that my faith in the Developers has been out of place. This once again establishes that while not perfect, you are always moving ahead. Now if we could only get that Max 9 Expotron, A VFX Editor Guide and a few other things while you're at it and we'd be able to at least call you demigods. regards, dunniteowl

Just off the Cuff here... I read with interest your post about critical thinking and there is much merit to the concept of actually using it. My personal experience has been that many people can apply critical thinking to problems when confronted with them in a slower, less than in your face way (which games can generally present to you without actual life or death being involved...) and that this experience can lead to being a better solutions oriented type of mentality when things occur that are more in-your-face in the moment. AS applied to gaming, I think it's possible to spot not just elegant design (depending on whether you consider elegant as extremely efficient use of design principles, materials (including core code) or if that design appeals to the psyche of your audience) it can also show you concepts and principles of thought that go into a design. In other words, the way someone designs a game (and as you posited with your Pikmin example) also gives insight into the way they think the game can be "won" or in the case of RPG or more open ended formats, managed along the way. The Pikmin and Ninja Gaiden games each show you examples of the designer giving the player a chance to experience events in an ordered approach. This ordered approach is a method that allows a designer to introduce new concepts of play or puzzle solving or what have you, to the player so that there is less liklihood of hitting the wall. Meaning that, as long as you don't introduce too many new play concepts at once, the player has a better idea of what to learn to expect. In this manner, you are essentially presenting the player with a low order challenge (and this does not imply something easily solved) whereby you reduce the number of variables a player has to consider in the moment to overcome said challenge. In addition, if you can present this in a way that engages the player, either through inherent entertainment value of the challenge itself, or as part of a series of "quest-like" challenges that keeps the player moving forward, then even better. As each series of challenges becomes adapted to, you throw a new curve and a new challenge. All the old lessons still apply in their turns, only now you have to add on a new set of challenges with a different solution (perhaps using combinations of lessons already learned) that the player must now overcome. I think a really good example of the structured approach to games like this, with critical thinking to design, are relatively few and far between. At the moment, one of the games that comes to mind for me, which was really hard to learn to play, was back in the 5.25" disk days. I think it was called Strike Fleet. Each gaming scenario was progressively harder to complete, with a rising order of commands that had to be carried out and increased level of threat to your ship (or ships.) Additionally, as the scenarios grew more complex, combatant craft became more abled. In other words, now, instead of just hitting motor patrol boats with Tomahawk missiles, you were fighting cruisers, then also aircraft, then also submarines, then defending against their cruise missiles as well, etc. Another good example of critical thinking again (and this goes way back also) was the original Roger Wilco: Space Quest. Each series of events started off simply enough until you hit the Challenge. In this game, however, it taught you to think critically about your potential as the character and the limits of the game itself. In each case, it was rare that when the challenge first presented itself that you succeeded. Whereupon you died in any number of grisly, though thoroughly amusing ways. IN this, Space Quest taught you that there were a number of ways to outthink the game and solve the challenge and when you failed (sometimes quite repeatedly) you were shown several amusing ways to meet your untimely fate. I think that this method provided a negative feedback with a positive enforcement (dying is a negative feedback in game, while the humorous death scenes made you laugh and come back for more) that was truly creative, induced a level of critical thinking on the part of the player, and showed an innate understanding (at least as far as I'm concerned) on the part of Two Guys From Romulan, of human nature. I don't think I have seen that level or style of inventive and creative use of humor, sarcasm and mutliple game styles of play in a single game ever since. There are other games that clearly show a total lack of this comprehension of what a player has to go through to arrive at playing while learning (or is it learning while playing?) The first iteration of SSI's Gold Box edition RPGs, the Pool of Radiance is an example of this to a degree. If you weren't already familiar with RPGs and at least willing to sit down and read the materials offered in the game box, you would never learn how to play it. Of course, in the era that this game came out, I think we actually had a different level of computer player, even as a novice, as the machines these games ran on had to be pretty well understood just to get the games loaded onto the hard drives (if you were lucky and had a hard drive at all -- or like me, blessed with foresight and had a 20Meg HD) and then started to play. You had to pretty well know what you were doing just to get the computer to start a game. So then, most of the folks who played were probably going to be sitting there with the game manual and the adventurers manual right there. It still didn't explain why when you moved away from an opponent you got struck with an attack (sometimes resulting in the dreaded "Your Party was destroyed, the Monsters Rejoice" message.) or why when you cast a fireball your characters were all hit for 6d6 HD of damage (again, usually with the monsters dancing over your virtual corpses.) You had to learn these things the hard way. Now while I thoroughly enjoyed the game, I was a D&D enthusiast already and even so, I had to sit down sometimes with my Player's Handbook and go over damage rules, casting times, movement and attacks of opportunity to really get a grip on the workings of the game. Folks without access to this level of information probably ended up taking the game back. Again, though, we are talking about a wholly different generation of gamer. Those brought up on wargames, board games, and things like Chess, Go, Backgammon and Cribbage, where critical thinking on the part of the players is a necessary component of victory. And, you could take your time. Now, with the advent of realtime or near realtime, the entire system of cues, challenges and requirements has changed. The necessity of critical thinking has not. If anything, critical thinking in design becomes ever more important. How do you bring new players into the game and not overwhelm them? How to keep a player challenged without just speeding everything up? How to present a puzzle that won't take forever, though still isn't something someone just goes, "Ah-hah! Easy peasy."(?) All these things have to be taken into account. You have to look at the genre of game, the style of gameplay involved, the typical mentality of your game audience (and this includes targeting age appropriate challenges, education appropriate challenges and sometimes thematically appropriate challenges based on maturity levels) as well as the supposed nature of the game's plot, twists and basic interface considerations. Not an easy task, I daresay. Ahh, sorry to wax prosetic, there Josh. You hit a bulwark of thinking that I engage in frequently, yet do not have opportunity to discuss or expound to anyone I actually know. best regards, dunniteowl

Yippee! When have I seen such commentary? We got Monty (congrats on the new position!) posting about Purgatorio, We get PipBoy3000 talking about DW2 (nice to hear from you) and all this other cool stuff being worked into the mix. Deep Snow looks excellent and I cannot wait to try it out and see what can be done with it. I hope Kaycei continues with those hairstyles, because that was an awesome piece of work! (Take note Obs, that the stuff we like to see...) As to the more aggressive patch schedule, Great News! Rob, I know you're working hard and I applaud you and all the Devs. Keep us in the loop, baby and all will be right with the world. best regards, dunniteowl

The farthest I've gotten is staring at it at my local Wal-Mart and looking into my empty mailbox for it. Boo Hoo. best regards, dunniteowl

Great interview, Rob. Short and sweet. I gotta tell you, this blogging you do is the one that keeps my interest level up. As a site resource, this blog is the bomb. I have to re-update my links at the Citadel to keep up with these developments. Thanks for keeping the Community aware, Rob. best regards, dunniteowl Admin/Moderator NeverWinter Citadel Project Moderator NWN2 Forums for Obsidian @ Bioware Community Representative

Thanks for the opportunity to spread the word of the Citadel, Rob. I only hope that I have done proper justice to the site. It was an honor to be asked to write up something for your blog and I also hope that I did your blog justice as well. The writer's perennial concern -- was it the very best I could do? Of course, for all you that read the blogs, I take that same level of concern with the Citadel. Thank you, once again, Rob, for the wonderful opportunity. And thanks to all the members of the Citadel who make Admining and Moderating the site a thing of joy for me. My Very Best Regards, dunniteowl Admin/Moderator: The NeverWinter Citadel Project Moderator: NWN2 Forums for Obsidian @ Bioware Community Representative (Blessed in all titles and still wondering, "How did I manage all that?")

All I can say is that I am glad that I can hold my breath for extended periods of time. I am just waiting to get MoB as well as being able to download some of this amazing content from our Community members in this week's blog and others. My Snap and Stack Placeables concept is apparently something others like too. Great, it keeps me from having to feel pressured to create them first. And that saves me a huge amount of work. Thanks all of you that are building more and more varied placeables for use in the game. You are my heroes! Thanks for the reports, Rob, I look forward to them and miss them when they don't show. best regards, dunniteowl

[rant]I wonder how much gasoline there'd be in a metal can hidden away for FIFTY YEARS, don't you? As to Americans and bigotry, you'd be hard pressed to find any country that doesn't look down on America in one way another, including America. Note my location. I am from the USA and my own country and it's people are amazing to me. Like I said, land of contradictions and strange juxtapositions. I never said putting a can of gasoline in there was stupid, I didn't even imply it. There is a lot of common everyday sense to some things people do, even if the next things coming out of their mouths is complete non-sense. I just did the whole Okie thing for fun. And yes, we went to the Moon, and then promptly forgot about what the benefits to a long term, focussed and dedicated space program could potentially get us. I was mad at age 26, because I wasn't anywhere close to being able to get a job in space unless I was an astronaut. I thought, on that day in August, 1968, when I saw Niel Armstrong descend the ladder of the Eagle, that in 18 years, I'd be able to work on the moon, or in orbit, for some company that made a real space station, not this POS that is called the ISS. (sorry, got carried away there...) I guess I'm still a bit ticked that, now, at 46, twenty years later, I still couldn't possibly get a job in space unless I am already an astronaut. Where did we go wrong on that one? Like I said, the land of contradictions and strange juxtapositions.[/rant] As to FO3 and it's craptactular potential: I'm just going to have to sit the fence and wait and see. I hold no preconcieved notions about how Bethesda is going to screw it up or make it better. I sit here and hope that they do their level best to stay true to the atmosphere and overall mechanics of the game system, though not slavish dedication to it, which, imnsho, would be a real killer to the overall creative process in the first place. I would be willing to wager that even if the original design team were able to be pulled together into this thing, get the creative reigns and lead the way, it still wouldn't be able to cleave completely to the originals. Too much time has passed and the flames tend to burn out. Even the banked ashes of the original content producers, stoked again with zeal, cash and time to produce, still couldn't make an FO3 that would fall right in line with the other two. Too many things have changed, graphically, game engine, coding for physics in the game world, etc. If I were someone with the opportunity, I would probably be thinking: Holy cow, now I can make the Fallout I would have made back then if this technology were available when I first got cracking!" Wouldn't you try to take advantage of anything that came out that might make your vision more like what you first had in mind? Or wouldn't you be tempted to see how much farther you can stretch your talents and ideas with all this new stuff? So I say, let them have their shot, don't hold too much in contempt for it not being a dead knockoff of the originals and let the game stand on it's created merits, not the perceptions of what we think it's going to end up being like. But they better have some real creative talent involved and, from my perspective, their toughest critical success or failure is going to be able to recreate the sensation and atmosphere of the originals in large ways. That isn't going to be achieved with only nostalgic recreated visuals and the InkSpots on their sound track. I am willing to see what they do before I decide it's going to be good or not. warmest regards, dunniteowl

Weapon degradation is a tricky subject to "get right". I mean, after all, most of the times in a reality based situation, you find out something is no longer working when you attempt to use it, not during a simple equipment check back where all the parts or replacements are handy, right? It's like getting a flat tire, there isn't really a good time or place to have one, but if it occurs overnight in your garage, it's a lot more manageable. It would be nice to know that, in order for your guns to keep working properly, you had to click a box that said you were going to clean and oil it when it came time to do so. And if you could be aware of the chances of failure of a weapon based on use, repair and cleaning, then the degradation thing wouldn't be so bad. It would be like, say, you knew that every 120 rounds of ammo degraded your M-16 another 2%, increasing the chance of a gun-jam, but after cleaning and oiling the gun, it would drop a tad (like a percent maybe) and as use increases, the percentage rises accordingly. In a future RPG, especially one where you carry a wrist computer, there should be a relatively high chance of you knowing to some close idea when a weapon is likely, or at least more likely, to have trouble via normal wear and tear. Getting knocked ass end over tea kettle by an opponent, though, could end with a catastrophic failure of your currently held weapon (stock breaks in half, firing pin and trigger sear broken, etc.) and nothing can be done about it until later. Having a backup weapon makes a lot of sense like that. Also, with weapons you just found laying around and have to use on the fly, there could be a real sense of failure when picking it up in the middle of a fight, only to find it's out of ammo, or totally busted when you picked it up. Then again, even an empty hunting rifle can double as a mace. As to repair of weapons, I should think that you could do this based on Intelligence and experience, with skills specifically geared to such things that would enhance your ability to repair things. It would also make sense, in this devastated wasteland of a world, that parts wouldn't just be plentiful, though possibly repair materials (which could be either poor, decent, good, fine and excellent in quality) could be jerry rigged from other items pulled from the wreckage that's as often as not, all around you. Maybe something like: Intelligence + Scavenging Weapon Smith (small arms) General Repair (mechanical) could net you a pretty good bonus on finding replacement parts from the detritus of the years and wreckage and give a better than fair chance of repairing all but the most critically damaged weapons in your possession within the category. Just spitballing, clearly. I have to agree, though, that if it doesn't enhance or create a challenge that is relatively simple to meet, in terms of gameplay, then it could be a total cluster munch and ruin the overall experience. I wouldn't want to have to travel another 20 miles of wasteland just to get a trigger sear to fix my AK-47 would be a bone in terms of gameplay, unless I had a decent backup which made the repair a moot point for the time it takes me to get to a location that can do it for me, or where I can sell the damaged item as scrap for a discount on a working unit. Some system like that would be okie dokie with me as long as there was a way to overcome the challenges on the fly and not make me go way out of my way to do it, or have my character stand there helplessly while the mutant scourges maul me... Game Over, man, game over. If that were to occur, I would wish for it to be from my own miscalculations and not from the fact that the game scragged me in a critical moment by having my last good weapon break -- or having all my useful ones die during the combat before the combat was over. I would be pissed if that happned during the game. I'd be dead if it happened in real life. However, it is a game we're talking about and not a future apocolypse sim to see how well I can survive the series of disasters sent my way. Then again, we really have no idea what kind of degradation/repair dynamic that's going to be thrown in, so all of this is just pure speculation. And being as it's here and not on Bethesda Soft's forums, probably not going to go into the mix for consideration. Time will tell. regards all, dunniteowl

I would just like to add after reading the article in question sideways sort of, that I stand corrected and from here on out, I will not say that I wouldn't say those aren't in-game shots. As to grapic technical excellence, I still disagree, they look great and just because they don't push the envelope of polygons and voxels doesn't mean they won't knock your socks off when viewing them in while playing. I read a little tid bit about depth of field focus that caught my eye. I am not going to worry about the Fat-Man nuclear catapult as an issue, or nuclear powered engines in cars -- it's 80 years after a war in 2077, meaning it's already 2157 or later if I am reading correctly. It could happen! I am now officially excited and looking forward to getting it a few months after release. (I'm not going to buy even a Bethesda game before it gets a chance to be reviewed after release,) I have made that a pretty common practice since about 1987 when I bought my first computer. So, until something more comes out, I am just going to wait for my own Father's Day gift of the DVD Collection of FO, FO2 and FOT:BoS to arrive and play it between bouts of playing with NWN2's toolset, learning 3DS Max 9 and caring for my daughter during her leukemia treatments. (I give you one guess which is the most important one...) In any case, I hope that Bethesda (one of the few game development companies that can afford to take the time to do it to their satisfaction in these times) will do justice to the games that made me wish I had the extra cash when they came out. (I was busy with divorce, custody and bankruptcy among other things, the games hadda take a back seat, don'tcha know?) Thanks for pointing out the in-game use of screenshots Vic. It made me go back and actually read the article. regards, dunniteowl

Uh, no... The graphics are only slightly better than Oblivion (which was an early 06 game, and was impressive for it's time) and it's going to come out at the end of 2008, that's a year and a half away. And this is coming from a studio that always had cutting edge tech when they're game is released. While the art direction looks superb, the actual graphics aren't anything all that special now, and won't be especially when it's released. If anything, it's going to look better, not worse later. Go look at something like Crysis or Mass Effect, then look at Fallout 3. It's not even close to CG... And as far as in-game with the UI included, you have two clear gameplay shots with the complete UI. The battle shot, and the Pip-Boy 3000 shot. The rest are taken from gameplay away from the player to show wider view of the gameplay scene. Sorry to disagree though I am not sure you get what I actually meant and so I will attempt to reiterate it a little differently and also add the caveat that I only looked at two of the shots (they are little on my laptop screen and I am not all that jazzed about the game at the moment, so I could easily miss something.) My point was that I think the way the art was done was purposeful to mimic the "look and feel" of the originals, at least in the cinematic sequence. Cinematic sequence does not necessarily infer CG quality, it inferes a movie like sequence (hence cinematic of or like being a piece of cinema or a movie picture...) where the gamer and the game do not necessarily meet with the same loving attention. Actual gameplay rarely, in my experience, is reflected in the cinematic sequences used to hype the story and the game itself, though are not actually shown as gameplay that a gamer would get when playing. This is what I was referring to. I guess now I'll have to go back and look again to see what you're referring to. I am replying now to make sure that I am being clearly understood in what I said I would hope the current level of graphics ability could portray to make it seem like a clear successor to the original series. I didn't mean to imply that the graphics had to look like it in terms of actual quality, though in atmosphere. That's all. I have no idea how much better, graphically, the new game will look. It is just my hope that they capture the "look and feel" of the original game's atmosphere. If I wasn't misunderstood the first time, then I truly apologize for my little exposition here and bid you chalk it up to being a bit more tired than usual at the moment. regards, dunniteowl

Graci, signore, graci. Will do. dunniteowl

Well everything I saw was part of the cinematic sequence. I would never deign to say that it was an in-game screenshot, ever. It might be in the game, per se, but it is not a gameplaying sequence and, anyone who's had to watch the cool sequences of say, Mechwarrior III, IV, NWN/2 and others, where the opening sequences were always great to watch (a few times at least) and then play the game knows what I am talking about here. The actual game play visuals are probably going to be a bit different. I am hoping that the visuals are more on par with what more current technological graphics innovations can achieve, though hopefully being able to keep the atmosphere of the original at least in terms of the gritty, searing and unforgiving landscapes with harsh lighting, bleak and blasted ruins and plenty of mutants crawling, slithering and shambling about. As far as a hand held nuclear catapult, already got one, thanks. The military actually built and tested low yield battlefield nukes that could be launched with, get this, an 82mm mortar. I can only imagine what the poor bastards who tested it must have thought when they launched the dummy rounds for that one. They also designed, though never tested for feasability an extremely small low yield nuclear grenade. So, for a hand held catapult for launching a small nuke in Fallout -- not so far fetched. Just kind of silly. Like a nuclear mortar round, even. I just think that all this talk, like most of what preceded NWN2 as an example, is very premature and is the grist that launches the ship of expectations, which inevitably gets dashed upon the reefs of reality on the shores of release. I'll borrow a line from the NWN2 devs and declaim, "Temper your expectations." Me, I'm going to wait and see when it gets released. Meanwhile, does anyone know where I can get copies of Fallout and Fallout 2? I only got to watch over the shoulder of a friend when they came out as I couldn't fork out the cash at the time. Heard lots and lots of good things, but, hey, I went for the frivolous luxury at the time of choosing to have food on my table instead. I know, it was a selfish and stupid thing to do, but you can't live with regrets. regards, dunniteowl

50 years ago in Tulsa, Oklahoma? It isn't typical Americans, trust me, it's typical Sooners. "Hey, Earl, we gots ta build ourselves one o' them there tam capsules. What should we otta put in 'er?" "Whale, Billy Ray, we gotta put a car in't, an mebbe some wimmins stuff, ya know, lak a lipstick and some o' them snappy stockins. Cain ya think of anythang aylse?" "Golly, Earl, if'n we're gon'ta put a whole car in thar, then, ya know, we prolly outta put a gas can in thar too. An you cain't put them ladies thangs in thar what you have to put it in a purse." "How thick a ceement wall should we otta make fer it?" "Whale. Ah guess a couple three, four inches otta do it. We don't want it too thick fer them fellers fitty yars from now, and mebbe you outta make some ar holes in't too, so it won't stink when them fellers come git that stuff outta thar and check it out." Trust me, while not all people in America are that bad, nor even most of them in Oklahoma today, we're talking 50 years ago in a country that was still heady and drunk with the end of WWII and the growing fear and cynicism of the beginning of the Cold War. Oklahoma was "The West" still in many ways and technical excellence wasn't in making cement bunkers, it was in farming and oil drilling. The most amusing part of this is that they actually expected a car, in an unprotected environment to come out looking good and free of moisture. As far as a cache from Fallout, it would be reasonable to conclude that some of the caches would have mostly if not completely ruined goods in it for some reason and others with varying degrees of well kept, properly bagged and nitrogen filled chambers with important things like radios, weapons, ammunition and food stuffs in cans kept moisture and oxygen free to maintain preservation. Remember, Fallout is a future RPG where the technology was higher than that specific time capsule. Ah, America, land of contradictions, bad diction, indescretion and secrets and some of the most advanced technology sitting right alongside some of the most backwards ideas, attitudes and beliefs. It really is a strange and wonderful place (using wonderful in the proper technical sense of being a place ful of wonder...) Oh yeah, and some rusted old car in a concrete time capsule. But the maps, they were in good condition, at least they'd have the maps, even if they didn't have a car they could drive. regards, dunniteowl

No it's not taking it far enough! Modify to your heart's content! I'm now learning to use 3DS Max and wish I could modify things like that all the time. I have more fun designing things than I do playing things. I have had NWN2 since early April and I have probably only gotten a 1/3 of the way through the game, maybe less -- I am currently just getting back from the mission in the hills where you find the emissary from Waterdeep I think it is. In the meantime, I have played with the toolset and have only really been playing around making different terrains of rolling hills, roads, things like that. I am so looking forward to making buildings and other placeable type things. I'm not that good at making people parts and so my hat's off to all those that can. Hair, faces, facial hair, different types of eyes, lips, noses, mouths and jaw lines -- all of these things are lacking, in my opinion. Whatever can be done to make the heads and faces of the NWN2 models look better on the whole, I am for it. One of the things I am pressing the Devs for as a Community Representative is to make more heads with different facial characteristics or to release any new content made for Mask of the Betrayer if possible in an earlier patch. In the meantime, I also encourage anyone who can in the Community to make whatever they can to increase the variety in the game. So, please, by all means, modify all you can and enjoy it to the best of your abilities. regards, dunniteowl ps: If you look at my avatar (yes, it's really me, there) you will see that there was a time when I had my hair also parted on the side and my hair (what's left of it) is fine and thin in the first place -- never saw that modeled, plus I also have gone from close cropped, to business style, long haired, ponytailed freak and I have gone from clean shaven to just a mustache, to a mustache and goatee, a Lincoln/Capt. Ahab beard without mustache, a Fu Manchu mustache and many variations of beard. I would like to be able to model my PC avatar with changeable facial hair and head hair to match my mood. (it would be too cool and probably too much to have hair that "grows.")

For evil to be meaningful, there has to be a better way to "build" characters in terms of their overall worldview. Secondly, and probably as, if not more, importantly, there has to be a cohesive series of actions that direct the flow of that world view in-game. This thread is really interesting and some really, incredibly good points have been made, though, to invoke Schopenhauer, wow. Though, let's take a look at the person, not the philosopher. Let's say, that through the influence of this person, other people start saying, "Wow, let's invoke the physical suffering of pain that positively reinforces the fact that we are alive. We follow the teachings of Schopenhauer the Great, we serve the Greater Good!" Let's just say that, regardless of your specific world view, these people believe that what they do is, for all intents and purposes, good. The question then becomes, does the current overall mindset of the society in which they operate perceive them as good, too? Now, of course, the question is not meant so much to explore the merits (or lack thereof) of Schopenhauer's perceptions on pain or enjoyment, society's functions or who gets to write the moral history books, but to illustrate the nature of evil vs good as something a bit more dynamic -- more fluid. Now it becomes more academic in terms of game mechanics. How do we portray the possible paths of evil, good, chaos and law? They are not mutually exclusive or inclusive. Some acts, regardless of the intents of the persons behind them, are a net neutral in terms of how those acts are perceived. How do we script this? How do we code this? How do we know when we are even on the right track as far as any of that goes? Lastly, how much of a difference in the gaming experience can we interject through this and what are the costs relative to the gains involved? As surely as there is a drought somewhere that someone is hating, there is also a spate of rain that someone else wishes would go away. IN this I mean to imply that someone is going to love what you do to some degree and someone else is going to hate it. The question boils down to what can you do to implement such a system and how much will it add to, or possibly, detract from, your initial game idea? I leave all that to the developers of such systems. I am going to argue along another line in relationship to some games. As modding for KotOR is not something that can be done (like NWN2 can be modded or at least as far as I know as I don't have the game...) I will use NWN2 as my example of the moment. The Companion Influence System in NWN2 has great potential to allow the scripting of these very things that have deen discussed in this thread. The only issue, as I see it, is that the Influence and Reputation systems, so far, have not been realized in their fullest potential. One major issue that hampers this is the extremely limited faction system in the game as well as it's nearly impossible to modify this system withouth overrides. As far as dialogue options go, I tend to agree that exactly what is spoken is not nearly as important as the actions and or intent behind the options. I favor the concept that Tale mentions in removing the "flaws" of language to use the action oriented options instead. This is, potentially, a very rewarding series of uses for the dialogue options in order to minimize the "railroad" feel of spoken dialogue that someone else thought you should say to measure the intent of your alignment. I would only offer that it is not a "flaw" of language, merely an imposed limitation from the perception of a developer with a time constraint to get something into the game that "feels" like choice. Next, we have to deal with how those options influence the NPCs around us and how the NPCs around us can influence our choices in those options. This means the Influence/Reputation System has to get a workout and possibly a real workover. The options of spoken action have to be able to inluence the perceptions of your NPCs and the perceptions of the NPCs have to be able to influence, somewhat, how you respond later. Just as your PCs interactions with NPCs (ie: you befriend a street urchin) influence their perceptions of you, their actions (Thanks kind sir, I will never forget this kindness you have done.) should have some sort of determination on how you percieve them. (*Instead, what would you think of this kid, if after his thanks he walks off and then says, "So long, SUCKER!" and then dashes off?) This has to be a two way street for any meaningful experience in-game. Otherwise, Whipporwill's example:

I like the D&D system, though I am also pretty familiar with it on the AD&D 1st/2nd Ed rules, with house rules modifications. However, my system of choice is a self created kludge with hybridized (I have created a monster, mwuah hah hah hah hah haaaaH!) portions of Traveller, O.G.R.E. and Nuclear War (and the Escalation add-on.) I would like to add, however, that I took the OPs mention of a system as something slightly different originally than what I have read so far. I got that (and it's most likely just me) you were talking about the type of system as opposed to a specifically named system. In this, I like to play an open system running a rules set that comprises most of the physical actions available in a charts/table matrix, a mixed Classed and Open Skills based system, with a d100, d20 series of action success/failure rolls. I created such a system *(though it basically requires a stepped approach to learning it) for several reasons. I really prefer to design as opposed to play these days and I desired to create a system that would allow someone to Roleplay or Rollplay as they saw fit, as well as having a system that would allow wargamers and roleplayers to join together and engage in the same overall system. Yeah, it's complex, but, as I said, it is meant to be approached in small steps and the angle of attack varies with the experience of the individual. In all point of fact, if you've never roleplayed and only played CCGs, there's a method to introduce you to the system. The actual roleplaying portion of the system is something of a Traveller/AD&D hybrid for skills, classes, options and checks of all kinds. The wargaming section is meant to be something along the lines of Storm Over Europe mixed with the Star Lancers Board Wargaming for Traveller (I have only played the Sword Worlds, but man that was fun) with a small dose of the early iterations of the Star Trek games. Did I mention that I picked and borrowed from just about everywhere? Of course, it's my system of choice, because I designed it and shaped it from out of the aether. One day, within the next few years, I might actually get a chance to playtest it. As far as the other systems placed in this thread, Call of Cthulu is something that I always lilked, as well as Paranoia as always being a fun fest for the above reasons cited. CoC was fun, because, sooner or later, your character was going to go insane -- limited longevity sort of gives it a boost to playing -- how long can you last, basically? So, that's me. Hey Volourn, how's it hangin' man? regards, dunniteowl

I was going to say, you couldn't still be holding a copy of HHGttG, and the Space Quests! So this is your virtual list of games? I would have mentioned the text adventures, like Zork and the Colossal Cave adventure (XYZZY!) which I played on the Apple ][. Yah, still have my 5.25" copy of HHttG, I almost completely forgot about Zork (it's been so long...) and yeah, i still have all the Roger Wilco Series, though they have been transferred to 3.5" disks about 10 years ago. I also forgot to mention Stike Fleet (where it tells you that using the mouse can win the game, but to truly master the game, you'll need to master the hotkeys on the keyboard. First game I almost returned as being too ^#%$ hard to play.) There was also another text/graphic adventure about some guy that wakes up in a bathroom with a hypodermic needle sticking out of his arm, the police are looking for him and he doesn't remember who he is. Loved it though I could never figure out how to make it past getting caught and dying from the drugs injected at the start of the game. I never played Colossal Cave Adventure. I would saw off an arm to get a pristine copy of Leather Goddesses of Phobos, though. Right up there with the Spacequest series and Liesure Suit Larry (only the first one...) And don't forget the first Star Trek game, where your ship was a +, the Klingons were #, starbases were @ and the Romulans were ^ I think it was. I have played a whole slew of games that are passingly forgetful and some others that were fun for a bit and then I tired of them. @Tale, so now it's photos is it? Man, there's always someone out there willing to step the game up another level. Best regards to all, you're bringing back some memories, dunniteowl

That's a sharp and interesting comment. It's not impossible to do both, though it would need some the readers to choose from between various mutually-exclusive options (like choosing a pantheon, for example, between classical, Norse or Chinese). This entails more work, though. But that is a tremendous opportunity to build a rich source of material for DnD. Still, I'm not sure that the extra effort would show up well on a company's balance sheet ... whereas the primary purpose of marketing is to generate revenue. This also makes an incisive point under the "realpolitk" of publishing in general. I might offer an insight to how I see it when it comes to this particular venue: Dragon and Dungeon Magazines were geared for the 'dyed-in-the-wool' (A)D&D fan. One side primarily for gamers and the other side primarily for Module Makers and DMs. Noting that they were not mutually exclusive. Still, no-one can deny they were a niche market. Actually, those two fan mags make an excellent argument for Online Publishing. Much cheaper and perhaps much more available to the masses. Generate revenue the good old fashioned way through the subscription process and advertising on the site. Never happened. With the acquisition of the D&D franchise and rights of TSR by WotC, opportunity that abounded was not only missed, it was thrown overboard as useless flotsam and jetsam. WotC ignored everything but the Forgotten Realms it seems. No more Spelljammer, DarkSun, RavenLoft, Krynn, Greyhawk (happily seeming to make something of a comeback) or even Boot Hil and the Spy one (can't recall the exact name, might have been Secret Agent? (help me out folks with longer memories!)) All this stuff could have been kept and recycled in the same way the FR material has been. Updates, fan fiction, the Ecology of... series, PrCs, Skills, Races and Classes could have gone forward. Pantheons and Cults could have gotten more attention. A little scholarly attention to the things that make for a good culture, milieu, religion, political faction, etc. All of this could have been done and spun right into any and or all of the different milieux to the good of the game as well as to the profit to the balance sheets. Alas, no. If you go to the WotC site and look at their home page news sections, the vast majority of their information is related to Pokemon, Magic the Gathering, many other CCGs and CCG related franchises. D&D is but a blip on the radar screen to them and so they chose a single milieu and focussed all their attention on it for the last 10 years. To the detriment of many a fan of other worlds, though still fans of D&D. This was that slow spiral. That slow spiral downward could have been a gentle swelling upward, but, like many with a corporate mentality (and I am not saying this is a bad thing, necessarily) focus on a core aspect and merchantability for less cost became the primary driver of profit, as opposed to innovation, quality and stature amongst the rest of the gaming/RPG market. As I indicated. Flotsam and Jetsom willingly, perhaps too willingly, tossed over the side as a method for quick turnaround to profitability of a franchise that really started RPGs altogether. So, it's a sad thing to see the magazines go, however, it was inevitable considering the mindset of those who now captain the ship. Perhaps someday those things will return and get a much required refurbishing. I hope so. regards, dunniteowl

I have to go with the majority on this one, it is neither more or less logical to use either system. I am glad you got the anecdotal data for your semi-scientific paper. I have a problem with most systems in the way they treat the numbers in general and where the dice roll is supposed to lay for success. To me, in a d100 system, if you have a 45% chance of doing something, should the number you roll be over or under that number for success? To me just looking at something, if you have a 45% chance after all modifiers and you roll a 52%, it seems to me that you have succeeded. You have rolled a higher number than the base number for success. That seems logical to me. If you really look at it, though, you would have to roll under the percentile, because the roll amount is less than the base value. So, from a just looking standpoint, it seems intuitive (with the Bigger is Better thinking) that to roll higher than the percentile requirement should guaranty success. From a logical perspective, it is clear that you have to roll the percentile or lower (so bigger is not better in this regard...) Some folks have used either in systems that I have played and this is where it can get confusing. If you feel more comfortable with a d20 or d10 system over a d100 system, that boils down to personal preferences. I have no problem with any or all of the systems. Then again I started off board wargaming, then D&D systems, Traveller and a few others not worth noting. I think that what makes the real difference in a system that checks for success or failure is that the directions and explanations be clear and explicit with a couple of examples provided to make it so. The most logical method to one person might not seem so logical to the next. It can show up in the percent chance for success/failure, the roll modifiers or the fact that you either have to roll over or under the number for success. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I know there are plenty of folks out there who have some rather pointed views on DCs in the first place. So I am interested in the post poll results aspects of this topic... regards, dunniteowl

Well, that's sort of too bad. I really liked reading Dragon Magazine these last 20 some odd years, though I haven't had or seen a new issue in over 9 years... Just had other more important things of late. I figured firstly that the online format was sort of inevitable, however, since WotC picked up D&D (ne: TSR et al) I have watched it slowly spiral into the marketing scheme of feeding the masses and making it "fresh" and cool for the new folks, instead of making sure the core concepts of D&D remained and that it was kept about the use of imagination and having a small group of folks with their own ideas. Dragon and Dungeon both were always something that I enjoyed reading and getting ideas from, making adjustments to my game world designs (and of course, I have several rejection slips for articles I sent, too -- good times.) going online is probably the most sensible thing. However, I now am going to have to dig out my old copies (some dating back to 1981 or slightly earlier -- might have a 78 or 79 issue, though I cannot recall exactly when they started, and I started getting and collecting in the late 80s...) I have quite a few issues and am missing maybe the first 12--15 issues and then after issue 203 I stopped getting them. A few other gaps in the middle parts, though only a few here and there. I suppose my collection's overall value ought to go right up. Along with my blue boxed set. (amazing what you can find at garage sales and thrift shops here in Texas...) I also have the red manuals from 78, but no box. Oh well, I just hope that either someone at WotC gets a real clue and starts breathing some new life into the old aspects of the franchise or just dumps the D&D thing onto a group of folks who are willing to do it themselves. Meanwhile, long live Dungeon & Dragon! regards, dunniteowl

Not sure if I got the "flow" of this thread down, though if I read correctly, you're looking for those overworn cliches that we all have seen dozens, if not tens of dozens of times and really hate? Like: The Elven Ranger on a Quest to Rid the Forest of Orcs. The pair of dumb ogres who can't decide how to eat the captured halfling and so you attack them and free the hobbit. The Mage who is too "above" stooping to do actual physical labor when the party is doing something non magical. The Pious Cleric who is always pooh poohing the established metods of attack as Brutal and Unjust. The Druid who never gets angry, because that wouldn't be Truely Neutral (though it would be humanistic.) The half million Kwai Chang Kane knockoff Shao'lin Monks running around the realms spouting zen and kicking butt. Paladins that don't stop and consider the danger of their actions and rush in, shouting, "My faith shall grant me victory!" This is the place for that sort of stuff, right? regards, dunniteowl