[My one and only real criticism of this game]

The thing is, it's an interesting idea. For me personally, I don't have any stake at all in people not believing in a pantheon in this setting. I do, however, believe there would be quite a broad spectrum of beliefs. There are souls. They provide magic. Those two demonstrable realities of the game universe cry out for broad and deep exploration. The upshot is that I don't mind the premise. I just want it developed more. It's like Obs' name said about the NPCs. I'd still doubt that every single one of them would turn their back on their faith so quickly, especially since my experience is that some folks who end up screwed over issues of faith cling to it with increased fervor. That would be functionalism talking again, but I'd like to keep the discussion to what the game does with faith rather than faith itself. Still, if we take Obs' name's position, which I'm actually happy to do, then those ideas should be expressed. Nonetheless, I agree with you, Heijoushin, it probably was simply a matter of time and not wanting to face players with a wall of text. So I suppose we, as players, should be willing to fill in some of the gaps if need be.

[I'm twitching to see gameplay]

Because we love you, man! Plus, we could learn your secrets of Pathfinder mastery.

[Will the Newsletter do anything?]

I can't see it as either/or personally. You'd figure that the more they got done, the more they could share. Maybe Paizo is holding it close to the vest. Or maybe they're worried bad mugumbo.

[My one and only real criticism of this game]

I get you, but not everyone will immediately change their minds at the exact same time. I mean, in other matters, the people of Eora act more or less 'rationally' in the same way as people in our world. They went from absolute belief to "oh, it's all fake? Okay" in five minutes. You can explain that, but not very compellingly.

[My one and only real criticism of this game]

But the proof offered doesn't do much but to assert that someone else had failed to prove something. Forget faith in the supernatural. What hard core technocrat would jump ship after a similar five minute conversation? Oddities in belief, as you rightly assert, aren't confined to religion, but this scenario doesn't even get that far. It could, with a little more development.

[Will the Newsletter do anything?]

It's funny. I saw the title and got excited. Then I read the post and realized that I hadn't missed anything by not getting the (mythical) newsletter. We do seem to be somewhat of the red headed step children of the Obsidian community. I can understand playing some things close to the chest, but I have to say the radio silence on this project is confounding. I don't see the upside, but maybe El Jefe gets some sinister joy of seeing the handful of people clamoring for the project twist in the wind or something. Still, gotta keep up your spirits and your sense of humor, I guess. :D

[Solo runs all about the end?]

My problem with solo runs is that, creating the necessity for a viable solo run, you get a lot of folks complaining that PotD is too easy with a party. Well, if they have to balance the game to allow for a solo run, and putting in an achievement for such a run creates that necessity, then parties must therefore be easier. There's no logical way to overcome that reality. So, when someone says that the game is too easy with a party, it boils down to the fact that the reason the game is too easy with a party is because the game must be winnable without one.

 

All that said, I might dabble in a solo run myself. I tend to enjoy having companions, though, so I'll probably not get far. My PC gets lonely. <.<

[My one and only real criticism of this game]

There's only one thing that really rubs me the wrong way in Pillars. I've even seen some people argue about this in these forums. It gets under my skin and enough that it's surpassed my 'why bother' inclinations. I'm going to create shortcut arguments because I can't be arsed to write out more complex arguments when it seems to me that a rational person can reasonably extrapolate the larger argument by a charitable reading.

 

 

 

What I don't mind:

 

1. Anti gods

2. Anti religion

3. Attacking the whole idea of divinity within the game universe

4. Making these game attacks reflect (oh so subtly) attacks on the idea of divinity in the real world universe.

 

I'm a religious guy, but I don't resent people presenting alternate or opposing ideas. This is not a beef from a religious person against a perceived slight. It's a beef a gamer has with a scenario that is completely contrary to human nature.

 

SO, what I do mind:

 

1. A five minute dialogue exchange might convince someone, but not very damned many someones. People who have been steeped in religious belief do not hear one opposing view and simply throw in the towel. I just finished my second run, and essentially each NPC in my party completely caved on the idea immediately. There was no pushback at all.

2. There is a far far greater dearth of evidence of divinity in the real world and you still have chuckle heads like me who believe. I'm not arguing to you that God exists. This is an observation that the scenario in which the Engwithans couldn't find the gods and therefore all people would believe they never existed or had departed is not compelling. Even in a world with no soul magic, that argument has failed spectacularly.

3. The utterly simplistic way the argument unfolded. I understand it was the big reveal as folks are calling it. Cool. The only thing is, the idea isn't bad in and of itself. It just needed time to unfold. Making it a big reveal and then having every religious person in my party throw in the towel doesn't just defy credulity, it's laughable.

 

The upshot is that, as a religious person, I don't mind the fact that the game uses an extremely reductionist metric for religion or that the designer's prejudice is clearly against faith altogether. That's fine. I admire an ancient group of people who believed that man is the measure of all things and, while I think humanity is a pretty meager yardstick, I can respect the view for what it is. All I want is that the idea be presented in a way where, when all of my companions and I turn our backs on faiths we've had our whole lives, it doesn't seem like it came as the result of a five minute infomercial.

 

[spell mastery - please dont do this]

I saw your post and thought immediately of Mask of the Betrayer, Hawk. I'm not sure I want that scenario for the Watcher, but it's an interesting idea in terms of leaving the rest mechanic in place as is and simply creating consequences for using it. Frankly, I think 'rest spamming,' so called, excites people beyond reason. Rest spamming seems like pretty much a non-issue for me. I never rest spam and the game is plenty easy. If some folks want to rest after every battle? Hey, it's their time, not mine.

[spell mastery - please dont do this]

Good point, Gfted1. One would think that higher level spells are the equivalent of higher level gear, but enchantments kind of turn that idea on its head. I think higher level spells should be more powerful overall than lower level spells, but I would also like to see some lower level spells retain their utility. Of course, having just finished my second run, I have to admit that that grease looking first level spell stays useful and I used it pretty much to the end. Also, the magic missile spell has some uses, especially for drawing baddies to better positioning. It's got a tremendous range. Fireball is still pretty good later. Not because it does a lot of damage, but it's a fast casting spell. My priest used a couple of second level healing spells the whole game.

 

But forget spell casters, how about scrolls? In the final fight, I had three characters cast moonwell for four HoT spells running concurrently. Let me tell you, that was sweet. It allowed my priest to focus almost entirely on debuffs and buffs. When you can pump up someone's lore sufficiently, you get a massive array of spells and it just goes to underscore how useful they are during the game.

 

I get what you're saying, though. If you're only going to get one reset on encounter spell, you should make sure that one spell is really worth it. After all, that's a pretty high level class ability.

[The Pillars Drinking Game (Spoilers)]

 

Yeah, I play the Pillars of Eternity drinking game myself. Even when I'm not playing, I just grab a brew and pretend Aloth failed an athletics check. I'm sure in some universe there's an Aloth failing an athletics check at all times.

Well, due to the laws of probability anything can happen, am I right?

 

Damned straight. As an aside, absolutely brilliant, man!

[The Pillars Drinking Game (Spoilers)]

Yeah, I play the Pillars of Eternity drinking game myself. Even when I'm not playing, I just grab a brew and pretend Aloth failed an athletics check. I'm sure in some universe there's an Aloth failing an athletics check at all times.

[Please tell me I heard incorrectly]

And anyway, as long as there aren't any other townsfolk hanging around, you can just kill the backer NPC's for some extra loot

I find that gaming the system in such a manner breaks my immersion. <.< >.>

[Please tell me I heard incorrectly]

Really, the OP didn't seem concerned about the monuments, which makes sense. The 'immersion breaking' of the monuments are no different that virtually every CRPG I've ever played. The only difference is, Kickstarter allows the devs to make money off of the goofy stuff. They tend to fall into a few categories as far as I can tell. Some are meant to be funny. Some are meant to call attention to the backer. Some are extremely personal and have significance to the person who made them and serve that purpose regardless of whether other folks click on them or not.

[Pillars of Eternity is up for an award at SXSW!]

I agree, Sky. I haven't had time to play most of the games I saw on there, but the wife and I tried Life Is Strange and I can't see how it made it onto the Narrative list instead of Pillars. On the other hand, I don't begrudge other games their day in the sun. I'm just happy we can vote for Pillars to be recognized for its excellence. In my mind, it deserves it.

[Please tell me I heard incorrectly]

The thing about the funding is that it wasn't some magical level, now we're funded, let's stop and make the game. There were stretch goals. There were additional bennies, perks, and game goodies that made it into the game because they achieved additional funding. No matter how you cut it, the high tier backers, the guys who shelled out enough for NPCs, allowed for more content. People who enjoy a lot of stuff in the game got some of that because of the backers. Now, to be clear, if some backer guy came in and acted like an asshat, he'd deserve some ridicule, I guess. I would still say that he was an important part of getting the game going.

 

I don't think anyone should be blamed for the gold named NPCs in the game because I don't think it was a mistake, but if it were, it would be Obsidian's mistake. They made the pitch and allowed a certain number of people to buy into that tier. The backers who shelled out the cash for it were simply taking advantage of what they thought was an opportunity. I don't have any money, personally, but I don't begrudge people who backed the game getting what they were offered for the pledge they made.

[Please tell me I heard incorrectly]

Dude, you haven't played the game, right? I mean, I personally think the extra NPCs help populate the game world. It sure beats having a hundred or so "commoners" or whatever around. The fact is, you can see the gold backers standing in small groups or alone, just like filler NPCs. You can actually identify them a little faster because of their unobtrusive and yet clearly marked gold background on the name plate. There is simply no reason to react this strongly to something based on nothing but hearsay. Now, if you're a completenik and feel compelled to read the NPC stories, it might diminish the game a tad for you. If that's the case, I say as gently as possible, sucks to be you. I frankly, find it appalling that you're irritated that some people really went above and beyond to help fund this game and your own petty grievance not only seems to impact your enjoyment, but you want to aggrandize that grievance into something more significant than it is. If I had to choose between accommodating the selfish instincts of one non-backer who's complaining about a game he hasn't even played or recognizing people who helped make the game possible, I'm choosing the backers.

 

All that said, while I am irritated, I recognize the fact that you have the right to gripe. I just think that the issue is really quite minor when you play the game. Learn to identify them quickly and appreciate that there are a lot of NPCs who have at the very least more memorable names than "Nobelwoman" or "Glanfathan Hunter."

[Please tell me I heard incorrectly]

I don't think the NPCs are all that bad. I read every story the first run and avoided them on the second. The monuments range from highly personal memorials to dead family members (I counted at least 3) to highly silly to (cringe) outright advertisements (I counted at least 2). However, the monuments are easily identified as backer content by the interface. You need never click on them at all to play. Moreover, the monuments are in places that make sense such as graveyards and catacombs.

 

I would suggest you look at one so called backer NPC. I was reading somewhere about one of the people around here who died in real life and the lead developer decided to make a backer NPC for the guy, God rest his soul, and his backstory is really cool. Some inside joke about the guy complaining about this werewolf fight in a vampire game. Anyhow, the upshot is that the story itself is entertaining and it's really cool that the devs put in someone to memorialize one of the old timer community members. Way before my time, but his name was Viceros or Vicoros or Viceris or something.

[My wish]

D&D filed as 'Exotic' everything not from White People Land... and some other miscellany.

Yeah, it was a racist thing in Dungeons and Dragons! Please note the sarcasm. Look, exotic is a relative term. Having lived a number of years in the pacific rim in locations that most folks here would consider "exotic," I can tell you that there's nothing wrong with someone considering European cultural armor and weapons exotic. There's certainly no problem with people from Western cultures finding other things exotic. It's all about cultural reference.

 

Now, all this is without rancor. These days, with the internet, we call things exotic that are so ingrained in modern gaming culture that the term has lost all meaning.

[Oh hey, it's the #ObsidianPlays official thread!]

There are two things I want to see:

 

1. A preview of the White March 2 with or without Mr. Sawyer. His commentary would be fun, but just seeing some of it play out would be brilliant either way. Dowling said something about this last time, but it looks like it didn't pan out. Maybe before Obsidian releases the game? I don't know when that is, but even if they twitch it after the release, I'd still like to see it.

 

2. A preview of the Pathfinder game they have slated to release in a couple of months. Dowling said they'd show it off in February and Davis said they might do a live feed of the physical game. In either case, I'm hoping for some goodies.

[My wish]

Actually, it is pretty thematic stuff. There's early medievalesque period stuff with some vestigial classical elements and some kind of late medieval kind of Mongol looking stuff. It's all a bit mixed. It looks like the mongolesque dude is wearing silk undershirt, which is cool, but he's using a crossbow instead of riding a horse and using composite bow. I dunno. I don't mind anime looking stuff. I liked the armor and weapons in Skyrim well enough, and they had some funky looking stuff in there, but I appreciate the fact that Pillars has stayed true to a central theme, both visually and musically.

[Come On! You're killing us!]

Ahh, I see that now. I guess I lack the ability to see Pink's fine finesse!

[My wish]

I actually think there are two ways to see it.

 

First, I would agree that for me at least, I don't like the anime oversized weapons and overcluttered armor with huge pauldrons and the like. I admit freely that it is an aesthetic thing for me.

 

It's more than that, though. I see the armor and weapon design of Pillars are being more or less cohesive around a certain design vision. There are other designs I like quite a bit. For example, I'm a huge admirer or ancient Roman and Greek stuff, but I would never want to impose my love of these features to dilute what is a sensible thematic decision on the part of the developers.

 

So, I'll concede the point on one end, but I still argue the point on the other end.

[Come On! You're killing us!]

The Obsidian forums tend not to be exactly the most populated areas generally speaking outside of specific events related to the kickstarter, patches, and the like. This forum, the Pathfinder one in particular, is like the dusty watering hole with a small handful of regulars. We're a pretty small group.

 

It's not like what we do will make much difference in terms of the development. It's not like we can create a watershed moment by our sheer numbers and the game itself is essentially porting the physical card game to electronic format. For that reason, I think we should use finesse with the devs. Sweet talk 'em. Try to cajole some sweeet sweet Pathfinder lovin' from them rather than beat on them. We just don't have enough of us here to create an uproar.

 

As to vaporware, I could see it going that way before, but making an actual announcement about a release date so close and then never finishing the game? That would be foolish. Not because of us, but because it would make them look like foolishly inveterate liars. Why bother making an announcement that would imminently be shown to be not just misleading, but a bald faced and unrepentant lie? I would hope that Obsidian would want to protect their reputation a little better, even if the project isn't one of their major efforts.

 

I guess my point is, I think we should cut them some slack, hope they have some good news to share soon, and eagerly eat up any news they give us in the interim. If it turns out they've duped all... seven? ten? of us who actually hang out in this forum, we'll find out soon enough. Then we can hatch our payback plans! I'll pull someone's hair and you can kick him in the gonads or something. Well... either that or we can just go on with life and follow other projects. For what it's worth, I'm still holding on to hope. Doesn't cost me anything.

[My wish]

 

...I also love that female armor is not, in fact, a chain-mail bikini purposefully designed for titillation rather than protection...  ...Besides, how would a glass armor be of any help? It would shatter instantaneously, harming its wearer. And I don't think I can picture anyone dual-wielding staves

Its called magic, AC. :pFor consistency sake, I assume you also frown upon the rings and amulets? After all, how can a little band of metal that only covers a fraction of skin, confer protection over the entire body?

I see your magic point and reply that magic should not be an excuse to make your stylistic vision turn into something resembling a perp lineup from the regulars in the Tattoine bar in Star Wars.