[Anyone else just waiting?]

Well, because someone wants to stick

 

 

Indeed you do... and therein lies the problem. I consider it a great value that PoE does not rely on a complete replay of the game in order to try variations; whereas you managed to type up this feature in a way that paints it in a negative light. You are literally arguing in favor of remaining stagnant, while chastising PoE for providing features that allow for in-game deviations... while also arguing that combat is too repetitive. Hm?

 

I'm starting to think that you don't really have a strong point here, and instead are playing "rock, paper, scissors" with my posts.

 

The reason I claim that "repetition" is subjective is because the numbers themselves are not constant amongst everyone. I may feel that doing the same thing more than 100 times is too much repetition, whereas you may feel that doing something more than twice is repetitive. As far as I'm concerned, if anyone has played Baldurs Gate, IceWind Dale, or Neverwinter Nights, then they likely should have stayed away from PoE if "repetition" was a concern lol

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

Not in Morrowind! They die for good

[Two things...]

I never said "there is no such a thing as all nighters." You misquoted me and then typed up a lot over something I didn't actually say.

 

 

 

but there is such a thing as "all nighters."

 

See?

 

Anyway, I have hit my yearly count for "discussing prostitutes in an RPG." If you think that the phrase "spend the night with a prostitute" literally translates to a "quick romp followed by a restful sleepover," then more power to ya buddy lol

[Two things...]

 

 

I didn't "imply" anything. I am quoting directly from the game. Maei says Serel costs 1000/500 (pending the sidequest) "for the night." If you are paying the room "for the night" presumably you are doing more than just having a quick romp.

 

Sir, you are in fact implying that the "romp" is "quick." I figured my subtle hint would have been enough but now you're defending the point. Then again, I suppose there was no Viagra back then so maybe you're on to something, if we're talking about a character over the age of 50...

 

Elderly aside, and I hate to break this to ya, but there is such a thing as "all nighters." Especially when you've been out hunting dragons all day

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

 

You can not only pick your stories, but you can literally just kill virtually anyone in PoE and the Elder Scrolls. In TES, if you kill someone essential to the primary storyline, the game allows it to happen but simply prints an on-screen warning, "you just killed someone essential to advancing the main plot"

Well, in Morrowind anyway, they had to sack this feature in Oblivion (yea you can turn it off in the .ini file, but then essential NPCs start dying randomly in wilderness. That's the point where you find out why is that they sacked the feature.) But yeah, absolutely, TES games were always focused on the sandbox element.

 

As for the quote you have posted, eh...

a) Who's TempS?

b) Did you notice it's speaking of Fallout 3, not New Vegas?

Sorry, I don't understand relevance of the quote. Anyway, when I'm talking of non-linearity of New Vegas story, there's a ton of choice and even more reactivity - for instance, early on you meet a character belonging to the Legion who seems to be far too strong to defeat at that point. If you manage to kill him, this act will get mentioned later on by NPCs. There's more stuff like that, you can pick the faction you wish to help you with the main quest including becoming your own faction, and side-quests tend to have more ways of resolving as well. It's kind of cool actually. And yes, I do know that Pillars allows you to do a lot of that too.

 

 

Yeah sorry, some of the quotes pertain to New Vegas, like this one:

'In my opinion New Vegas is worse that Fallout 3. The exploration in New Vegas feels very repetitive and boring. On the other hand, I loved Fallout 3, so we may just have a different taste in games."

 

But it was more for fun since I kinda enjoy reading random game rantings lol

 

You pretty much ended with the point I guess I'm trying to make, that even when we look at games that add diversity to story, in the end they aren't very different (if at all) from PoE. Even if we look at games that are built entirely around story with little to no combat whastoever. Like Telltale games (Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, Game of Thrones). We can easily pinpoint a linear aspect that becomes prevalent after a 2nd or 3rd playthrough.

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

You can not only pick your stories, but you can literally just kill virtually anyone in PoE and the Elder Scrolls. In TES, if you kill someone essential to the primary storyline, the game allows it to happen but simply prints an on-screen warning, "you just killed someone essential to advancing the main plot"

 

Also, did you say that Fallout New Vegas is an example of non-linear story? cause...

 

 

Repetitive combat + copy-pasted rubble + no significant story = boring waste of time.

 

The exploration in New Vegas feels very repetitive and boring.

 

The game does have a main plot, just that it's a bit slow to get going. The main driving force is finding your dad and fixing the water supply. As for everything being copy and paste, that's just the wonders of the gamebryo engine.

 

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2209561.html

[Anyone else just waiting?]

Some things I encounter while playing PoE that I do not see posters consider when proclaiming that combat is "annoying and repetitive"

 

1) I maintain no more than 3 NPC's at a time in my group, along with 2-3 custom Hires

 

2) I switch out NPC's any time I want to follow up on their individual storylines

 

3) I switch out custom Hires any time I want to experiment with a new build/combo

 

This greatly reduces the chance of annoying/repetitive/montonous gameplay tactics. I did this by default because before I came to the forums I honestly thought that this was one of the main ways we were expected to play PoE. We can only hold a party of 6, so with all the NPC choices and ability to purchase Hired Adventurers... how could anyone stick to one and only one thing that causes annoying repetitiveness?

 

More importantly, terms like "annoying" and "repetitive" are highly subjective and such claims on these forums are rarely backed by actual in-game scenarios. And the few times that a highlighted moment is brought up to prove a point about annoying repetitiveness, it is done so in such a way that the author is strategically manipulating the description of the situation in order to prove a point: similar to what Politicians do to prove that unless you vote in their favor, "the terrorists win" lol

 

As far as Sensuki is concerned... I'm fairly certain that anyone using him as a reference point in a discussion will instantly gain -75 Prestige (in a 100 point system). You seems fairly logical and level-headed, so don't let Sensuki's love for Sensuki pollute your intellectual contributions. Even if Sensuki did manage to stumble upon a good idea, it seems to me that his presentation of anything meaningful is completely polluted by the fact that he's jaded. And I assume he is jaded because he spent $200 as a PoE Backer yet no one coded a single one of his ideas.

 

But I digress...

 

I agree that combat and story and balance and overall mechanics can be improved upon in PoE. How those discussions take place on this forum, however, need more much improvement imo

 

 

 

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

How interesting. Perhaps then personal preference is the ultimate factor here. In my case..
 

I honestly got annoyed by Durance's repeated references to "whores" every time we met someone who wasn't as devout as him. He came across as the "burn women at the stake for being witches" type of Christan Fanatic, so I ended up killing him in the middle of a quest lol

 

My favorite NPC moments reside with Aloth and Eder; as Eder's constant references to Aloth's split-personality made for great entertainment, and always seemed to come at moments that needed comic relief.

 

One memorable non-linear story moment in PoE for me:

After clearing the catacombs as part of my Paladin's primary Quest, I decided to finally help Eder look in to his Brothers situation. When I went to the records archive I was informed that I am still a stranger to Defiance Bay and would need to become more established before I am entrusted with sensitive documents. So I went to speak with Wenan and asked if he had any work he needed help with. He sent me to the Woodend Plains to find a group of Giantslayers who he hired to infiltrate the Crucible Knights. I found these mercenaries and told them Wenan sent me to help, but they got in my face and started talking smack. My first dialogue session caused them to back off and walk away, but I noticed that the last line of their dialogue said something like, "we will deal with these fools later;" after which I reloaded my previous saved game and murdered every last one of them.

 

Perhaps this is personal preference, but the quality of the story and decision making opportunities seems quite stellar and rewarding.

 

[Two things...]

Prostitutes and Dungeons... wasn't that the plot of the Hostile horror flicks? And am I the only one who noticed that the OP implied that sleeping alone is just as restful as sleeping with a prostitute?

 

Anywho, I built my dungeon fairly quickly because I was curious to see if I could capture all those bandits that regularly invade. I was wrong on that obviously, but during my very first Bounty task I captured a prisoner. And this is all in the early game (group levels are 5-6).

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

hah indeed, and you are likely one of my favorite Mod's around the Interweb's. I think sometimes your even handedness (which is a good thing) ends up being a bit too generous lol

 

But you do have more context and experience with the impact of these types of discussions around here; certainly moreso than myself.

 

From my perspective I didn't see much negativity coming out of this discussion. Just a few folks that may fall for the bait and jump on the "critic bandwagon" (similar to what happens in Sensuki's threads), mixed with a handful of posters who weren't necessarily tricked by Infiitron's subtle butchery of Avellone's words.

 

I would welcome some recommendations on RPG's that provide "less linearity" (which is drastically different than "too linear") and were successful.

 

Some titles that come to mind:

 

1) The Witcher

2) The Elder Scrolls (Morrowind, Skyrim)

3) Gothic (1, 2, & 3)

 

... but if we are really forced to analyze the story behind these seemingly "non-linear" games, we can successfully argue that the linear aspect is always prevalent and simply uses specific tactics to divert the players attention away from the fact that in the end, it's all linear.

 

So if anyone thinks that PoE could use a bit less linearity, then the truth is that a reasonable hope exists with future updates that may provide enhancements geared at distracting gamers from the linear path all RPG's are built upon. That's something to look forward to, and is way less "doom and gloom" than pretending PoE's linear story-driven path is hopeless just because some guy on Twitter wrote something on paper once that never ended up in binary.

 

 

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

this is pertinent to the PoE discussion and it only uses Avellone's own words.

 

If by "use" you mean "completely rephrases and changes the meaning of" ... then you are correct.

 

Here is the actual term Avellone used, "less linearity"

 

Here is the term Infinitron morphed it in to, "too linear"

 

It's classic tabloid style rephrasing in order to entice a specific type of response. I don't mind it, since we are free to point this silliness out, but if you're gonna act like the Discussion Police then at least make a proper analysis between quoting an authors words vs rephrasing.

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

 

 

Did Chris Avellone drop out of having a major role on this game

Well, did he "drop out" of a major role? Or are you making an assumption there? Maybe it just wasn't his job to write the story?

 

POE is/was a relatively low budget game. More agency takes more work, generates more bugs, and results in a shorter game. It also limits the strength of the narrative. Narrative and agency are at odds with each other, the more you have of one the less you can have of the other. Obsidian said from the start they wanted a strong narrative in the game. If there's a lack of agency, it's probably because of that, not because of some battle of egos.

 

OP should apply for a job at some celebrity gossip news place. As long as you're doing it, you may as well get paid.

 

 

Indeed, the answer is in the OP's own profile: PoE relied on Kickstarter and Backers

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

Why do you care so much that I care so much?

 

I'm not bashing Infinitron, I like a lot of his thoughts/posts... when he actually starts typing like a regular person. He does tend to open up a new discussion in a dramatic news reporter style (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83056-pillars-of-eternity-going-simulationist-with-a-keyword-system) which is why I commented on it.

 

I'm not suggesting he stop either; but I will openly observe it. Hopefully that won't tread too much on your kinship though lol

[Anyone else just waiting?]

It has nothing to do with powerbuilds and everything to do with waiting to see if the game gets it all together.

 

I kinda sorta get what you are trying to say, but when I disagree I provide some observable context whereas you tend to remain general and vague. "get it all together" sounds like something that belongs inside a Fortune Cookie, na' mean?

 

The other items you listed are not game changing in an overhaul kinda way; and there are Rogue/Stealth builds that allowed for successful playthroughs in spite of any temporary functionality issues.

[Few tips for improving combat and level encounter design in next sequel]

I say keep the Trash Encounters and simply start giving me Exp for thrashing mobs

 

Also, give me a specific reputation gained only for trash encounters that, when high enough, qualifies me to enter a gladiator style arena where either my Main char or my entire group can engage in tournament battles. For Sparta!

[Chris Avellone says Pillars of Eternity was too linear and that he had little impact on the story]

I think the story and NPS Progression is just fine; it honestly reminds me of playing through the Sith campaign in Star Wars the Old Republic. NPC's were optional but did add an addictive side-quest feel. Fun and Addictive are the applicable terms here. The main different for me being that PoE is much more unique with both combat and character builds than an MMORPG .

 

What I'm more concerned about in this thread is:

 

1) Why does Infinitron think he's a Twitter news reporter?

 

2) The subject line of this post should have been much shorter omg

 

 

[Anyone else just waiting?]

The "quick gratification" characteristic isn't prevalent in the mere fact that someone wants to "wait to play." It comes from the reason behind the desire to wait; sepecifically: some players wish to wait because they want a powerbuild that's guaranteed to remain unaffected by any patches/updates during their 1-time full playthrough, and the content needs to be at its peak because a second playthrough aint an option.

 

The changes (patches) that have been released up til now are far from "complete game overhaul" categorization. We are talking about bug fixes, balance tweaks, and incremental content enhancements. Anyone who realizes this and then concludes, "omg i need to wait til this game stabilizes" is clearly just a thumb war mobile app instant gratification tweaker; who, might I add, likely won't even complete the full PoE campaign even in its most stabilized state. Halfway through there will be another excuse to stop playing, like the folks complaining about micromanaging attacks during Paused Combat.

 

This type of stuff is painfully obvious when you look at the trend of posters on one side of the spectrum complaining about micromanagement, and a totally different trend of posters on the opposite end complaining about how PoE combat is too easy (infinite money and overly effective power builds) - which apparently was made even easier due to the White March.

 

Combat can't be both too difficult to micromanage and too easy to power through, now can it? Clearly these are viewpoints from instant gratification addicts vs die-hard RPG junkies

[Unique Custom Recruit]

if anyone has played Wizardry 8 i think that is the best custom NPC + personality template ever made in a cRPG.

 

You know, this game was on my radar forever but I never got around to playing it. Reading your post reminded me that it's not too late; I plan to download it from Steam today!

[Anyone else just waiting?]

@Kilburn & Zenbane: What is your problem? I think we agree that the truth lies somewhere in between. In PoE you have too much money available too soon. That does not mean, that you shouldn't be filthy rich at some point in the game, it's just too early. I think what Zenbane tries to say is, that in a game like PoE (maybe in every game?) success shouldn't be a matter of ressources, but of strategy. At the beginning of the game this isn't possible, as you start with a very small toolbox of abilities to choose from. So you have to gather ressources to get more strategic options. If later that options become available, the game should focus on challenging the decisions you made (What abiites you choose, what armor you bought and so on) and how you make use of them. That does not mean, that ressources should become unlimited or unimportant, but you shouldn't be forced anymore to crawl every stupid box inside a dungeon for copper. (Unless you are the kind of player that enjoys playing Trial of Iron in Super-Hard-Mode with just one hand without looking at your computer monitor.) Both of you argue very extremistic, but I think both of you just want to play a balanced game, not an extremistic one. Oh, and of course there is endgame content. The game even is divided into acts.

 

PS: I think this post is englished very bad. Sorry for that. I hope you understand what I mean.

 

Well your choppy English aside, you pretty much described my point. As you stated, only in the early game should players feel the need to search every "box" in a dungeon. However as the game progresses, while some players may still want to do that, the game itself shouldn't require it beyond a certain point. I mean... this isn't the Diablo series where players need to search everywhere for that Godly Sword of Haste, na' mean?

[Anyone else just waiting?]

I have no idea what you're trying to say about what I'm trying to say, which was a retort against what you tried to say.

Are you saying that a game that doesn't allow unlimited gold to create over-powered characters is a bad thing?

 

Also, I'm not sure if you are aware of this... but no MMORPG's has an end-game; they are subscription based services that rely on players to keep playing, forever.

[Anyone else just waiting?]

Imo To play on potd you should have to scrounge every bit of exp and copper just to survive.

 

I really hate it when the game get easier instead of harder as you progress. Xcom had the same problem.

 

If a player is engaging in end-game content and still having to "scrounge" (eg, manual labor) to survive, then either the game needs an overhaul or the player is just a crappy gamer. A quality gaming experience should challenge the player through creative design, not make things harder via resource exhaustion. That's a cheap cop-out.

[What needs improvement (in next DLC or Pillars2)]

This can't be achieved via AI script?

[Mystery Offering]

I love puzzles! I came out of Legend of Grimrock 1 & 1 recently, full puzzle-driven dungeon crawler. I'm a huge fan of adventure games as well, like "Longest Journey" and of course, "Myst"

[A query on combat gameplay]

 

 

People on Something Awful and whatnot cried about archers and stuff in the IE games, and thus they were made not very strong.

As opposed to people crying on the Obsidian forums about the game not being very strong? lol

[Anyone else just waiting?]

If you wait until Forum Posters stop expressing frustration before you play a game... I fear you may never fight another animated pixel again