[Help me build my Barbarian... no seriously, help?]

Is there a [Class Build] here on the forum for a Barbarian like there is for that Monk?

If you really wanna go Barb-Tank, then I'd recommend the "Active Defense System" build;

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

 

 

4. Barbarians - Active Defense System

Role: tank/debuffer/disabler

 

Race: Hearth Orlan. Previously, he was optional – for this build, he's absolutely mandatory. The only valid alternative is the Boreal Dwarf - he'll shine against his racial foes but will be somewhat weaker against everyone else. Dwarf's stats are also not as convenient here.

 

Stats (Hearth Orlan, the White That Wends bonus included): 

 

M 2

C 17

D 3

P 21

I 18

R 17

 

The stats are the classical pre-addon tanking distribution. The only difference is that, because of perception now giving accuracy, they lost any sense for the majority of tanks. Not for this barb, though – he still manages to put them to good use. The mental stats maxed also make him a great party leader (which now is more of a rarity).

 

Weapon of Choice: Hatchet & Shield early on, then Spear of the Vile Loner, then Starcaller flail. Spear is more of a temporary weapon – it allows us to be useful by giving some extra debuffs (-5 defenses to everyone who's in the carnage zone) and interrupts. Sure, we'll swing rather slowly with our bad dex, once in 4 seconds or so, but its 1 second interrupt time still makes its worth it. It's almost a mini-stun.

 

The Starcaller benefit is that it can stun your foes on a critical hit and, well, the stun is a very good disable and it lasts for quite a while – 4 seconds. Starcaller is also a fast weapon so, even with our bad dex, we'll attack once in 2.5 seconds. That's without armor, of course – like many other builds, we'll fight in the full plate initially but later on we'll go for the 0% recovery penalty (that'll happen around the same time the Starcaller will become available for sale). So, since we'll attack a lot of foes, our chances to stun at least someone are pretty good. That's why the hearth orlan is indispensable – you want as much hit to crit conversion as you can get. Durgan steel upgrade, potion of merciless gaze, paladin's upgraded zealous aura, priest's Dire Blessing – those are your friends here. Accuracy buffs and deflection debuffs will work rather nicely too, that's why Boreal Dwarf can work. +15 accuracy is no joke crit-wise.

 

Talents and ability choices:

 

1st level: Barbaric Yell. Quite an obvious choice for an accurate 2 might tank. But, once again, at level 9 you respec into Frenzy – we want to hit real fast with our Starcaller.

 

2nd level: Weapon and Shield style: hard to tank without deflection. We have great amount of endurance but crappy defenses – gotta fix that ASAP.

 

3rd level: Savage Defiance. Sure, it works half as good as it does for your ordinary barbarian, but that's in terms of the pure endurance. Considering we'll have about twice as much deflection than your ordinary barbarian (and so we also take twice less damage), the survivability increase will be roughly the same. And it's an excellent increase in the early game.

 

4th level: Stalwart Defiance – said increase is going to get even bigger than this. +10 to all defenses is a lot. Almost negates the initial barbarian frailty. Also, combats got a bit faster in the 2.0, so 20 seconds of duration mean more than they previously did.

 

5th level: One Stands Alone – so it's more or less another 10 deflection for us and, as a tank, we want to have as much of that as possible.

 

6th level: Superior Deflection: we don't want to go for the Cautious Attack as we relatively care about our attack speed. Meaning that it's already as low as it can get and we can't afford to bring it down any further.

 

7th level: Threatening Presence. Even for the pure tank it's better than the Thick-Skinned.

 

8th level: Accurate Carnage – more attacks landing will mean more potential criticals.

 

9th level: Barbaric Shout. You also respec into Frenzy at this point – Starcaller should become available rather soon.

 

10th level: Weapon Focus: Adventurer – more Starcaller crits, you know. Yeah, we're a strange tank, even though we're really defensive, we gain a lot from our attacks. But then, considering the main feature of the barbarian is the carnage, that's only logical, no?

 

11th level: Brute Force – put some Weakened+Sickened combo on them, hit them better, stun them harder.

 

12th level: Quite an empty level for us. Well, Interrupting Blows, Gallant's Aura (if you have no palading), Snake's Reflexes etc – these all can be useful. Take whichever you fancy the most.

 

13th level: Thick-Skinned: better than nothing. Everything else doesn't do anything for this build.

 

14th level: same as 12th.

[Help me build my Barbarian... no seriously, help?]

You will probably want to avoid the Chanter based on your feelings about Paladins, and avoid the Druid based on your feelings about Wizards. The 2H Barbarian will likely be very reminiscent of your Dual Wielding Rogue experience.

 

So... I would suggest going for the Juggernaut Monk build. I tried this recently and absolute love it:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82367-class-build-the-juggernaut-a-heavy-armored-monk/

 

 

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

I have finished the game twice, on hard and on path of the dammed.

 

This is by far the best game i have played since baldurs gate 2.

 

In saying that obsidian have created something great but they had the opportunity to create something legendary and they slightly missed that mark.

 

Areas that need work are:

 

- better story line, the whole soul BS was a bit cheesy

- more exiting talents to choose from at level up

- more and more powerful magic items to gain

- enchanting should be eradicated to give magic items a more " unique" and special effect

- the stronghold should be a bastion of power, you should be The Lord of your lands. It is effectively a useless money sinking pit. There should be adventures tied to it other effects.

- there needs to be more boss type battles

- and most importantly you should be able to become the master of the universe, just like we did in bg2

Agreed on the Stronghold, Items, and Master of the Universe stuff. I think Enchanting is cool so maybe dont get rid of it entirely, but let it simply enhance gear in a way that compliments a play style without completely overshadowing Unqiue/Named items.

 

Although it's interesting reading this forum and seeing how divided people tend to be in regards to the Story. Some people love it moreso than other games in this genre, and others think it was lacking.

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

You're an exceedingly unimpressive troll, Gairnulf; and even worse with your embarrassing Forum Warrior attempt. I see that you shine your "PoE Backer" sigil and judging from your cliche Web Flamer tactics you fall in to 1 of 2 categories: you spent the lowest amount possible to donate and used it a Troll Currency; you spent more than you should have and are now bitter about the final product.

 

Either situation explains your persona perfectly, but I will enjoy watching you butcher the verbal warez you copy/paste around here.

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

No worries. Besides, I should have double-checked the official release dates of BG and Torment before I proclaimed which came first lol

 

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

 

PoE is on par with Baldurs Gate, IceWind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights. And all of this started primarily with Planescape: Torment.

No, seriously, what does it mean? Your phrasing is a little confusing.

 

BG, IWD and NWN started primarily with Planescape: Torment? This is not true. Torment started because Black Isle/Interplay had Baldur's Gate's engine, Planescape license they needed to utilize and MCA willing to work on two projects at once for giggles.

PoE started primarily with P:T? This is not true either. PoE took inspiration from IE games in general, and Torment is the one from which it took the least of all.

As a matter of fact, I can't think of anything Planescape: Torment "primarily started" up until inXile's Tides of Numenera pitch and, maybe, Mask of the Betrayer back in the days.

 

Also, NWN is certainly redundant in your list. It being D&D based modding toolkit with RTwP combat and OC pure **** doesn't mean PoE related to it somehow.

 

They were both published by Interplay in December; but yes, BG was in 1998 and Torment was in 1999. I played Torment first and was certain that the dates were the other way around. oops!

 

I stand corrected on the Timeline, but the timeline is hardly the point. I brought up all these games that entail the same combat mechanics in order to address the notion that PoE should become a turn-based game.

 

Although, if you don't see the relation between PoE and NWN when engaged in combat then you either haven't played NWN or you're being intentionally dense.

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

i don't really understand why some of you find combat in PoE more satisfying. While admittedly i just play the base game and my party is just level 7, so far i simply can go stealth with a ranged char who preferrably has a weapon with long range and leave the others behind as far as possible. Then my ranged char initiates combat and runs back to the rest of the party. In the meantime, since combat started, i can let Durance cast a buff and Kana, if he's reached 3rd or 4th invocation summon an ally and/or Eder summon an ally with an item. So, basically i can do what i did in BG2 as well, i don't see where the difference is. Then kiting, taunting in BG2 people say had to go since it's cheesy. Yet in PoE you can taunt enemies to the edge of their movement zone/radius with ranged weapons and when they turn their back on your party you attack them with ranged weapons again, move them to the edge again and repeat until enemy dead.

 

Right, so kiting is alive and well in PoE. That doesn't make it more satisfying, that puts in on par which is one of the claims I made in this thread. Kiting exists in quite a few genres, even MMORPG's.

 

 

 

Then i can also lock enemies up in melee, and nuke them. While there's the expert mode to turn off the visual helpers for AoEs it's still way cheesy because of sticky melee and stat regulating AoEs so much so that they nearly become foe only. The status effects aren't really dangerous for the player, but enough to screw up the enemy. And even if your meleer gets hurt in the process you don't care since he gets up after battle. In comparison in BG2 going down the pit in the unseeying eye quest and then one of your chars getting killed, with no way back, proceed without him to finish that quest.

 

Okay so you're basically describing the process of Tanking with DPS backup. Anyone can take pretty much anything in life and describe it in terms of the lowest common denominator. That doesn't prove or disprove whether or not something is more/less satisfying at face value. The difference being: face value description vs lowest common denominator description.

 

Tanking is much more satisfying in PoE than its predecessors imo. Especially with fun abilities that come from the Godlike races. If your fighter runs out of both Endurance and Health in PoE, they are completely useless even if you can drag them along. Having to either restart or continue without a party member isn't a proper challenge, imo. That's a needless penalty that is making the game hard for the wrong reasons. And if you want to penalize yourself, then just change the difficulties in PoE and suddenly it's way worse than what you described in BG2.

 

 

Melee engagement IMO relies on crowding the player with enemies so that there's still enemies left who move to other chars in your party (which also is the reason corridors/doorways are that wide). Since melee already controls movement, status effects duration is also reduced. That leads to counterspellig not being tactical as it was in say BG2. Counters are done before real face-to-face combat starts and whether it's even necessary depends on the enemy. Say you face wind blights in your next battle, then you simply can let Durance cast a prayer and you're good to go for the entire battle. So you have a couple of universal counters which you cast before the enemy reaches you and that takes out the need to counter when you share the battlefield with the enemy. So, while there's a strategical component to combat in PoE, there's just not really a tactical one, it's not as dynamic as in say BG2 and i believe the first step to change that would have been to enable free movement.

 

That is extremely situation (eg, your personal style of play) and doesn't really govern the overall experience every player can expect. For example, Monks work entirely differently than everything you just described. Chanters as well. Both are mid-to-late battle abilities and counters.

 

 

Also, in BG2, even if i managed to obtain the staff of magi, after going through one of the toughest battles in the game, that didn't make my sorcerer suddenly a melee powerhouse since i could only put 1 prof. pt into staffs and btw was also reduced to using dagger, sling and darts only. And if the player wanted a multitalented guy, then that multiclass char would progress slower. Also, action queues are already in, which i associate with mindless static version of rtwp combat (e.g. KotOR).

 

Most people who describe BG2 talk in terms of how much better it is in terms of items and gear. It's interesting to read you describe the opposite. But I think the recurring theme in your response is centered around personal preference.

 

If you limit yourself in BG2, PoE, or any other RPG, then of course you won't experience many of the enhancements. Due to the nature of all the games mentioned, for every situational argument there is a perfectly valid counter argument. This is a full fledged micromanaged RPG based on D&D rules. At the end of the day, all these games give you enough options to make your gameplay experience either narrow or diverse. The combat can be either monotonous or unique. It's all based on the choices you make. Perhaps in the end that is what makes PoE feel more satisfying: a more intriguing array of choices in what appears to be a more noticeably unique world.

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

 

Lol, no.

Agreed, I like PoE a good deal more - well aside from Planescape. While I love rtwp combat, I always found the implementation found in IE games to be incredibly clunky, as far as I'm concerned, they would have been better off featuring a full turn-based system. PoE is actually a game designed for PC with combat that goes with it - no need for turn-based mechanic, everything is cooldown-based which lends it a lot more flexibility, it paces itself a lot better and I love how fast it is when compared to IE games. It's a system which is actually built from ground up for a game featuring rtwp combat and it shows. All I'm missing (a lot) are order queues.

 

Aside from that, I found writing in PoE to be a crapload better than in BG and IWD games, I love the story and find the companions a lot more relatable.

 

It doesn't enhance anything. The guy's written it in the OP, it's a couple of strategies that win the whole game for you.

Well eh... That's how I finished entire original Baldur's Gate, entire Planescape Torment and most of Baldur's Gate 2. Icewind Dale games had a lot better encounter design, gotta hand that to them.

 

I do agree that the writing in PoE is fantastic. Up until now, IceWind Dale was my absolute favorite from the entire genre. Granted, lengthy combat in IceWind Dale was probably a bit more rewarding overall, or felt that way at times. But I feel that PoE has given this form of combat the much needed "edge" to bring it in to the new era of gaming. Even in IWD, combat tactics became highly repetitive and only a few strategies won the whole game. The diversity offered in the PoE class system is a welcome enhancement.

 

I suppose the biggest difference is that diversity in the form of "gear" was more prevalent in the predecessor games; whereas diversity in the form or class builds and group makeup is much more prevalent and rewarding in PoE.

 

I recently completed the games, Legend of Grimrock 1 & 2; and I am noticing a similar pattern in terms of the gripes/complaints between the 2 genres. PoE has tried to give the age old Planescape combat system a cutting edge approach, which means shorter combat than we are used to. Grimrock did the same thing for the Dungeon Crawler grid-based genre. For example, in original Dungeon Crawlers the player had to write down map information themselves, and explore every single wall for hidden switches. This often resulted in huge time sinks to beat a single game. In Grimrock, someone beat Part 2 in just over 1 hour. Case in point, bringing a "new edge" to that genre resulted in the ability for players to have a short-lived combat experience.

 

I see the same trend in PoE. In the older games we could build a diverse group and move slowly throughout the campaign. Inch by inch, weapon by weapon, players evolved the story and their characters until the final end-game confrontation. In PoE, players can find a handful of builds and literally buldoze their way through the game. And then the go to the forum and post about how PoE is limited in its diversity.

 

Well, for the sake of my comparison here, I would say that in both games from both genres, despite the fact that it is possible to bulldoze through the campaign, it is also 100% possible to take your time and build a group of characters that enhance the overall experience as opposed to eploiting game mechanics. In other words... just because "you can" doesn't mean "you have to." And it certainly doesn't mean, "that's the only way."

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

Lol, no.

Quality retort. If your strategic use of "lol" is meant to imply that PoE is better than its predecessors I agree with the "lol, no." However, if you meant to imply that it is lesser, well then, "lol" right back at ya

 

 

What does this sentence even mean?

Anyone familiar with Planescape, Baldurs Gate, IceWind Dale, Neverwinter Nights, and PoE wouldn't have to ask.

 

 

It doesn't enhance anything. The guy's written it in the OP, it's a couple of strategies that win the whole game for you.

 

Your  post certainly doesn't enhance anything discussed here (quite the opposite in fact). But PoE most certainly does enhance this genre. Then again, you were confused about the Planescape reference so you probably aren't in the best position to judge what is being enhanced in the first place. Sure the OP typed something up, but it doesn't make it the whole truth. And as I stated, the OP seems more concerned with posting a response to what he repeatedly calls "fanboys" as opposed to offering a comprehensive review of PoE within the context of its genre. I mean... the OP suggested that PoE become a turn-based game which makes no sense considering the world in which it was made for. Again, refer to Planescape.

[Faramund's Curse (note)]

Like most of you, I have played quite the number of RPG's over the years, but I have to say that Faramund's Curse note is probably the funniest/coolest in-game notation I've run across thus far.

 

This had to have been written by someone who really had something to say lol

 

I work in Technology for a living and I must say that this even reminded me of some heated email's sent by developers after a project fails.

 

If anyone has run across more entertaining in-game readings (I don't count Dialogue) then feel free to share it.

[Most overpowered builds post patch 2.02]

Sanguine Plate is a better armor for your Fighter than the White Crest (which looks amazing but really isn't special from a mechanical perspective); especially so when paired with the Shod-in-Faith boots. That's the bread and butter of my build, in fact.

 

KDubya's Juggernaut Monk is up there too.

 

But are you sure Wizard only comes second? Aloth has the highest number of crits and highest total damage done statistics in my party (though the Lady of Pain has the highest single-target damage and the most hits.)

Thanks for posting this Juggernaut Monk build. Last night I replaced the Fighter in my group with this build, and wow, was I really missing out! This Monk build is quite fantastic. Personally, I have greatly disliked the Monk class in "any" game thanks to the Hellfire expansion to the original Diablo. That was many moons ago... and all these years later I can finally say that this class is at the top of my favorite list. I'm running with a Palladin, Chanter, Priest, and "Fireball" Barbarian. All great classes, but nothing has been more fun than watching this fully armored Monk drop a round house and explode a body.

[Finished the game, my Feedback:]

I can't tell if this is Feedback for the game itself, or simply feedback about what the reviewer calls "fanboys." Every game has its following, but a good review should avoid referencing them as part of the review itself. It just comes across as being jaded and dilutes any real intention behind a potentially worthwhile review.

 

In regards to combat,

 

Before commenting on the combat of PoE, the reviewer should note their background playing this specific genre of RPG. PoE is on par with Baldurs Gate, IceWind Dale, and Neverwinter Nights. And all of this started primarily with Planescape: Torment. This review doesn't seem to take any of that in to account which I think is important; context is everything.

 

Combat has never been turn-based in this genre and shouldn't start now. Furthermore, if anyone has played through IceWind Dale or Neverwinter Nights in their entirety, then chances are you'll find the combat system in PoE to be a breath of fresh air. Personally, I always loved IceWind Dale over any of the other games. In fact, the only way I was able to commit to all of Neverwinter Nights was with a power build and referencing a full walkthrough. IceWind Dale, on the other hand, captivated my heart, and I gladly played through the game multiple times with multiple parties without ever using a detailed walkthrough.

 

PoE brings a great new element to the Combat system through the use of true Crowd Control, Buffs/Debuffs, and multi-fashioned AoE. The combat experience can be quick & bloody, slow & strategic, or anything in between. I love the way PoE took the combat maechanics we all know and love from the previous titles and enhanced it on multiple fronts... all without destroying the classic "dice roll" D&D experience.