Zelean

So I thought. The bond between the two remained very special until the very end. It makes you wonder what Kreia was to the Exile at one point in their lives.

Wow, your memory's great!

There's nothing wrong with her being both, but the way you put it, it makes sense to me now. I have one problem believing this hypothesis: timeframe. As far as I'm concerned Kreia was exiled at least a year before K2 starts. Until then she could have regained her connection with the force. Besides, I would think techniques like masking identity require strong connection with the force. Also, Kreia says to the Exile at the end of all things, that teaching the Exile to feel, to listen to the force again was a mistake on her part. I thought that she was weak and inexperienced at the beginning because she experienced near-death situation. It's too coincidental that she wakes up as soon as the Exile does, so the bond must have formed earlier on Harbinger/Peragus.

You mean you want someone else to open that can instead?! Which part of the comments do you refer to? "This bond you share with Kreia is not like any I've ever heard of.", perhaps? Where Vash unlike others mentions Kreia specifically and doesn't recognize the name? Oh sorry, wrong topic

Thanks! I went to take a look at Wookieepedia, actually. I only read what one finds under Kreia, Kae and Atton. I liked the writing on Kreia's teachings a lot! I found several speculations missing which was disappointing somewhat, but what I was not happy about is that several opinions or should I say interpretations made it in as 'facts'. Facts like: Kreia regaining her connection with the Force through the Exile (huh?, what did I miss?), Kreia is not Kae etc. Seriously, it makes me wonder why one bothers to write several paragraphs, how Kreia == Kae argument is ongoing, yet gives them a title: "Mistaken identity". Also, I was missing Kreia's fundamental quote. Since I like it so much, I'll remind you all of it. {Softly, this is Kreia's core belief}:: Manipulation is done through propelling events... or selected ones... into motion. It is done through teaching, through example, and through conviction. :: :: And the greatest of victories are not manipulations at all, but simply awakening others... to the truth of what you believe. Of hearing it echoed around you, in life. ::

Is Wookiepedia officially supported? I'm asking because I don't know it, yet many of you obviously regard it highly. The Council does not believe that everyone who went to the wars turned to the darkside. They certainly don't believe the Exile turned to the darkside, as you can see in the judgment scene. Atris had a mind of her own, though

I hope you're not telling us you know Kreia's age. In a game with content cut through and through I find it coincidental at best that Atton initiates 'how pretty she once not so long ago must have been' dialogue for no reason at all. Same as that Telos Factory doorway

You're saying a sith lord -wants- to be killed (by his student), Xard?! I think Kreia wanted to die for two reasons: 1. She was nihilist. 2. The Exile needed to feel a great loss again so that his/her wound in the force is a) healed or, b) amplified.

Kreia was not betrayed by Sion and Nihilus. Expelled from the circle, yes. Humiliated, yes. Betrayed at heart, no. On the other hand, she was betrayed by the jedi council and someone who revealed her love affair in the first place (Kae hypothesis). That's why I say Kreia -was- Darth Traya. Atris is just like Kreia. She's a librarian

Kreia of course knew Atris long before K2. But she hadn't known of Atris' plotting (fall) until she first arrived with the Exile to Telos Academy. Then the Kreia-Atton scene plays where much is explained. If nothing else that Kreia reads people very well.

It was, yes. Kreia never wanted the Exile dead! Just the opposite. The Exile was the only proof that her teachings were right. Kreia always was nothing more than a teacher, a mentor. It's a while since I studied ancient Greek teaching methods, but Kreia uses the same method as a Greek school (Pythagorean?). A teacher is just a guide in the teaching process. On student's query answers only with a hint of a riddle. And when the student surpasses the teacher he must discard the teacher (break their bond which would otherwise slow him down). Analogy: baby at birth. Of course, the student is still not mature enough at that point, so the teacher needs to 'make' him do it.

I happened to be one of those people who liked Dantooine scene a lot. Anti-climactic because you do not fight? I do not RP to kill! Hell, I wouldn't mind not doing it at all. Besides, Kreia does not kill the masters. She merely cuts them off the force. Also, the Exile is unconscious anyways.

I accept. But just because Kreia fights you in the end, that does not make her "Darth Traya". As far as I know "Darth Traya" is used in only those two instances, so it's either Atris or no one at all.

Don't get me wrong. I thought Kreia was Traya until very recently, too. For about the very same reasons you name, Xard. K: {Quietly, resigned, like she is about to perform an unpleasant duty}But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal. Notice the remark: "duty". What duty? To take on the role of Darth Traya? Or isn't it the duty to strip Atris of illusion and show her who she had become? That's why Atris says "How did it happen?" (and then blames the Exile of betrayal). For you

<chuckle, chuckle> Not that I expected you would care to make your case. Why do people so easily say things such as 'this is a sure thing' these days and don't care enough to justify their position?! Just hope you don't become a prominent scientist

No, she didn't. Suggested, yes. **** E: Wait... the Jedi did this to me? K: {Challenging}What did you believe? That you suddenly lost your connection with the Force without reason?

I challenge you: Prove it, then! I made my case a couple of days ago in a different topic.

Indeed. That Kreia threatens to kill herself if Exile refused to follow her to Malachor would be another proof that the bond was to be resolved there. Got cut though, I think. Also on Dantooine, when you hurry back to Ebon Hawk, from what you (can) say to Atton it is understood the Exile follows Kreia to Telos primarily because of the bond. Btw, why do you believe Kreia to be your enemy?

Aah, but Kreia is -not- Darth Traya!

When I was discussing Kreia with Jediphile (btw. where are you?) I thought of opening a post 'Kreia does not lie' or somesuch. She may manipulate with information, but "never" lie. Ok, let's except "no"s when influence is not high and such. Just as she never said that the council stripped the Exile of the Force, she never said the bond was lethal either. All she said was: 'let's not find out'. The manipulation of course is (good one) we can't be sure it isn't lethal since Exile's bonds are stronger than those of other people. It was said quite clear, Mellypie, that the masters did not doubt the strength of Exile's bonds. They were the very reason they intended to cut Exile off the force. It would also be odd from the aspect of narration if your main storyteller lied much. The story is not about searching the truth but about searching for a belief. Also, if this does not convince you, explain this: why is Kreia lying about the bond in the monologue (the quote), when the Exile rests unconscious on the floor?

I don't see how reading m'messages' will help her/him. Dantooine, DS: K: {Sadly, dissappointed}You were my last hope, the only one who could change what is to come. And now you have left me nothing. K: I shall teach you no longer. Our bond remains, but that is all.

Funny, I wanted to bring forth the subject of Darth Traya sometime soon. But I guess there really are no real coincidences. I too believed Traya to be Kreia until just recently. What happened? I watched Kreia-Atris scene and Exile-Kreia on MV. #267 time. This time though, I noticed something I hadn't before. Atris-Kreia K: "Sith" is a title, yes, but like you, the title is not who I am. It is not what I believe. K: For you... it is different. K: Know that there was once a Darth Traya. And that she cast aside that role, was exiled, and found a new purpose. K: {Quietly, resigned, like she is about to perform an unpleasant duty}But there must always be a Darth Traya, one that holds the knowledge of betrayal.

Oh, I seeeee. There is no strength in being dependant on something (even if it gives you strength/life, since it is not yours in the first place). To give up that something is to truly show strength. As strange as it sounds, sometimes to die means to live. To die willingly, embrace death (life without the force) is what Kreia wanted from Sion. It was his final lesson. Even a Jedi Exile would want Sion to find peace, if only in rest. Besides, the Jedi don't consider death to be a bad thing. I don't even think Sion was working for Kreia. Sure, he followed her like a desperate puppy. But Kreia? No, she *never* wanted help from anyone. She's a true individualist. Remember how she greets all companions? 'But if they must come, use them.' Aaaaaarggh! Good luck with converters for Japan and Cyprus (if you're not there already, that is)! Imagine a conditional when Atton's health is less than 100%, he fails the escape with *game over* sign popping up followed by credits rolling. Imagine what this board would look like then, if you will. :ph34r:

I'm not sure I understand you completely. Basically because I think you answered your own question yourself. Sion only had to embrace the idea that there is no truth in the force. By denying the force he would be denied immortality. It's a frightful thing to possess knowledge of your own demise and be possessed by it, I reckon. I'm sure Sion not only hated the non-death state he was in, but also that he didn't want his suffering/death go wasted. The Exile was the catalyst for him to let go. Sometimes such things turn out to be just as simple as that in life. I like to think of Sion as the Exile changing his mind when cutting away from the force as SMG goes off on Mal V, stuck in the tunnel of death. The very reason why I believe them to be on the same team. I totally forgot about that sealed crew quarters! Surely it was not just a developers' whim to seal one door. Same as that door on Telos I was trying to open like madman only to read it leads to nowhere (meant to be droid factory). Hmm

Haha, not good enough, I say. You're presuming that the Ebon Hawk just happened upon Peragus. True though, I'm no expert on sub-space travel.