Myrten

Most of these hits are grazes anyways so you deal more damage to them and heal yourself.

I think I've found why we have such problems with DEX when looking at Daemonjax data - DEX effect is not linear! Take a look at these two charts: First one shows dex vs frames, second shows dex vs relative frames (10 dex = 1). Attack Animation and Recovery Length follow the same pattern while delays kinda stay the same or drop by a bit. Look at frame decrease between 10-14 and 14-18 - both are 4 dex different but difference in frames is -41% vs -5% This means that difference between DEX 10 and DEX 11 is much bigger then difference between DEX 19 and DEX 20 I think we can figure out this formula but we need results for: Naked dagger with following dex values: 11 12 13 15 16 17 19 20 11,12,13 are most important

No way to know for sure until tested, unfortunately. Can you test dagger vs stiletto vs club at 10 dex naked? This should give us an answer This is a bit weird. We got 4 parts of an attack: 1)frame attack delay 2)attack animation length 3)frame recovery delay 4)frame recovery length We need to figure out how different modifiers like dex, talents, armors etc.. affect them. Taking a look at your data I got a feelingthat 2)4) are working better than dex would suggest while 1) and 3) are barelly affected I'm also wandering what's the cause of all these variations, did you lock the frame rate like suggested here? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72272-combat-mechanics-attack-speed-recovery/page-6?do=findComment&comment=1628773

I'll make some changes to the spreadsheet - goal is to have melee weapons with different bonuses separate as they have different DPS. I'll also try to accommodate for the results made by Daemonjax. One question though - do all weapons with the same declared speed in the description(like slow\fast etc...) actually have the same speed?

It's the one in those ruins under that town in the east Am I the only one who think it's not worth it and it should be something better? If you sacrifice a companion who isn't used then it's zero vs stat boost

According to strategy guide you can buy this cloak from rare items merchant in your stronghold once you renovate merchant building.

I agree, it seems better off being a Moony, Amua, or Hearth Orlan. I think aumaua might be the best as you want high might to do a lot of damage, but it also depends on difficulty level and whether you want to solo or not.

OK, I did this change, formula is monstrous now gj. thanks! i think it would be better to show dps values in the big damage table. i'm more interested in dps values vs certain DRs than pure dmg values. the one cell with avg dps is just not enough :/ DPS vs DR table is now in second sheet

Yes, take a look a this thread http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75370-retaliation-tank-rogue/

Problem with fire godlike builds is that your endurance has to drop below 50%, with this one you are almost always at 100% health as draining weapon heals you.

You should not think how to survive longer but how to kill her faster. You can avoid breath destroying your party by proper positioning. Debuffs can do wonders, high level Wizard and Cipher spells can neutralize the dragon. When it's safe you should attack it with ranged weapons. Now it's harder after nerfs, but I've killed her pretty quick with reload speed chant and 4 arbalest guys

Yeah, me and him. BTW Could you put a link to the spreadsheet into your first post?

OK, I did this change, formula is monstrous now gj. thanks! i think it would be better to show dps values in the big damage table. i'm more interested in dps values vs certain DRs than pure dmg values. the one cell with avg dps is just not enough :/ After me and Baki manage to merge our changes I'll put DPS vs DR table to the second sheet

OK, I did this change, formula is monstrous now Please verify if your changes are in, too. Google Docs doesn't seem very robust as far as concurrent changes and merging is concerned. Since we now have several contributors, we might be better off with real version control, such as SVN or Git. Damn, it seems we have a conflict - it's either your or mine version. I've made a rollback to my version - you can verify if my changes are in bychecking if first sheet is called 'Main', also between focus gain and damage/dr table there should be another table with: Graze Chance Graze Damage Hit Chance Hit Damage Crit Chance Crit Damage I'm not sure if SVN or GIT would help here as it would have to support merging xlsx files not code files which are plain text

After finding a lot of flawed information online on focus gain, I decided to test it myself and was fortunate to run into MaximKat's post. There was a cell reference error in the focus gain formula, which I corrected. I also noticed that someone broke the Quick Switch formulas after I uploaded them, perhaps when the tables were relocated. I corrected these formulas and added columns for focus gain based on Quick Switch. With these new findings, Penetrating Shot is looking much better for Ciphers. Typical scenarios show ~20% damage gain with blunderbuss, which compensates for ~10% loss in rate of fire. Result: 10% more damage and focus gain with blunderbuss and an even greater damage increase for some spells, such as Mind Blades. Can you make sure that your changes are in in current version? I've been making big overhaul to damage formula and your changes might have got lost

OK, I did this change, formula is monstrous now

TotalDmgMod is ChanceGraze*TotalDmgModGraze + ChanceHit*TotalDmgModHit+ ChanceCrit*TotalDmgModCrit I see your point that it's a bit different to substracting DR from graze/hit/crit damage individually, but to be honest this could complicate the damage formula to the point when nobody could understand it. I'd leave it as it is unless you can give me an example when this would make significant difference.

Accuracy mod is only informative, actual calculation is 100% correct now.

It should be fine, you're can just pick up normal dps talents early game and play it like a standard dps rogue. Can you give me a hint where Hiro is ? Vulnerable attack is applied on riposte, I've checked that. Retaliate works on hit,graze,crit and Riposte works on miss so everything is covered

I got an idea - set dexterity to 50 by console and check what is affected. This should give some decisive results

Thinking about classes for my next playthrough I've come with an idea of using rogue as a tank (because of his riposte ability) and armor with Retaliation property. I've console created it in final dungeon, tested it a bit and it's working quite well - together with healing on my weapon my enemies not only kill themselves, but also heal my tank :D On the downside - it takes a bit if they have high DR. What's even more funny - every retaliation hit triggers deep wounds What do you think about this?

I think I might have found an explanation: If you remove all recovery delays (they are not affected (like 103: Recovery bar is full (103 - 97 = 6 frame recovery delay)) difference is around 23% It's very close to 24% and it will never be excact due to rounding. Can you also do the same test with 14 dex? I guess we will have to modify our chart a bit and include these delays.

-Hit to Crit and Graze to Crit added to spreadsheet Could you try with different dex value? Maybe we can get some pattern

Please be careful when you edit the spreadsheet, someone has deleted crit chance for zero accuracy mod

It's clearly dex bonus which breaks everything - actual decrease is like 18% instead of 24% - can you do some tests with different dex values? This way maybe we could figure out some formula