Gidpo

The older system IMO, made casters even more one-dimensional. All you need was some affliction and then spam Fireball, Noxious Burst and Iconic Projection and you would instantly win any fight without having a single dent in your resources. What you state there isnt changed in the new system. Of all the things you could say the new system changed that part of your post is not one of them. Also your whole post seems to miss that there is much in the game that indicates to the player they should use resources sparingly. There is almost nothing stating that any given moment is the time to use a resource, except almost dying. The only way you can know that you will have a wealth of resources left at the end of an area or the whole game is to have already covered that area before or be on your second play through. Its very clear that you have figured out this game, but is that a reason to drastically change it?

I dont think thats the real issue. I think the issue is as of a week ago of the 11 classes none of them were truly Vancian casters, and now there is 3 that pretty much are. I think there was a fix for a problem that didnt exist. (were an overwhelming majority of players dropping every non caster from their party after level 9 or so?) And did this fix really improve game play or just make it more tedious? Meaningful strategic choices are not "tedious", but more to the point, this problem very much existed. The enormous bi-level power spikes of post-level-9 casters was always an issue, but the issue was limited in scope pre-expansion. With 4 more levels, two entire spell ranks suddenly became per-encounter. It turned what was a notable quirk into an insurmountable gulf. The system needed to die before the game was even released - the only problem here is that it took until the second expansion to fix an issue many of us saw from a mile away. I dont think I have ever seen an example of meaningful strategic choice with a vancian system that wasn't simply some form of meta knowledge. Could you expand on that? In any battle what choice could you be making other than "I know this isn't the toughest fight on this level because I ave been here before." Could you also describe this issue in more depth? What does insurmountable gulf mean in the context of this single player rpg?

But you didn't have to cast all four every fight! Now you don't have a choice. If the fight was that easy just and you didn't want to be bothered, before you could have just auto attacked or let the AI clear it

I dont think thats the real issue. I think the issue is as of a week ago of the 11 classes none of them were truly Vancian casters, and now there is 3 that pretty much are. I think there was a fix for a problem that didnt exist. (were an overwhelming majority of players dropping every non caster from their party after level 9 or so?) And did this fix really improve game play or just make it more tedious?

Even though I don't feel that casters were so overpowered that a nerf was needed, my biggest disappointment with the change is not the lack of per encounter casts. My biggest disappointment comes with the lack of variety. Now every fight my casters are casting the same 3-4 spells, regardless of the make up of the encounter. If this change absolutely had to made to balance a single player game, I would hope spell mastery could be adjusted to allow for any, instead of a particular, spell to be cast at least once per encounter. That would at bring some variety back and satisfy those that desired a more vancian system put in place.

This is the big problem with per rest, and limiting how many times one can rest. Unless you have meta knowledge every battle does take place in a vacuum essentially. The planning the vancian camp advocates sounds a lot like the "not using your spells because you're saving them for emergencies" approach those in the per encounter camp hate being forced into. Not so much planning just auto-attacking Whats the big deal if a caster does sling or spam spells? That's their role. Also resting because a party member is injured doesn't seem weird or out of place, same for resting because my party trekked half way across country. Resting because I casts spells? That is annoying, and obviously discouraged because supplies are limited and are limited even more as you increase difficulty.

Load times were never short, I know. I have been playing White March part 2 since release with no noticeable change in load times. However as of last night every load screen is over 3 minutes long. I have deleted all but 3 saves (auto, quick, and pre-end game) for my 5 characters, but still no improvement. Anyone have any suggestions?

I haven't been able to actually find patch notes that say this, only a few posters talking about the change in beta. From what I gather spells switching from per rest to per encounter at later levels is gone. In place is a system that allows for mastery of one particular spell that can but used per encounter and other spells remain per rest. I apologize in advance for not having the time to write out a very detailed post on the pros and cons of per rest vs per encounter. It has been debated at length on this forum though and of the argument put forth I would like to simple add this. I agree with nearly every point that supports a per encounter system, and find the arguments for the vancian spell system to be antiquated. Perhaps most importantly for me, the per encounter system is simply more FUN. Also the per rest system FEELS like I need meta knowledge of the game (like what mobs are around the corner) to use spells correctly. So this post is simply a plea from someone who has sunk over 200 hours into this game, please don't move closer to the per rest spell system. If anything I have been looking forward to having more spells become per encounter as my casters in all my different parties move into the final phase of the game.

Yeah thanks. This game is really great. I am about 30 hours in. Please make more!

Yeah, which means it's like D&D, and which means it's a sensible system where you need to think and use resources. Couple this with how resting works in this game (an attempt and preventing players from dumping everything they have ever battle then resting for 8 hours between each fight) and overall you have to manage your party's resources a wee bit or spend a ton of time waking too/from town. The opposite IMO is a system like DAI/DA2 where you can basically cast nonstop (they do kind of limit you with a cheesey mana/stam pool that recharges fast during combat) such that you basically spam every ability you have (and you have far fewer and less distinct abilities) off cooldown and there's next to zero tactical thought. I am loving my wizard so far, on normal with a cipher in my group for comparison. However the cost/benefit of using the wizard, and other casters feels off. The resource use here is easy. So many casts cost a camping supply or a run back to an inn. Fair enough. But what is it that you, and it seems so many other fans of the rest system, are thinking about in an encounter. Like how do you know when the cost benefit analysis works out so the benefit of casting the spell outweighs the cost? What is the planning you are considering? And the information you are using in this plan, where does it come from? For the most part, I am going into every encounter, and by default the next encounter, completely blind. So how do you know when to use your big guns? When you are taking a ton of damage? Or is it when the fight goes sideway? Then let loose? If the fight is going as planned I seem to not need my wizard at all. Again I love my wizard, just every time I use a spell I wonder if I have gimped myself for later, and it looks like many hardcore, oldschoolers, tradionalist, don’t feel that way. I am honestly curious as to why.

I spent pretty much all weekend playing this game, what a blast. I wasn’t part of the beta, but I followed it closely. There were some points when I was worried this might be a disaster, but it turns out it was just hyperbole from forum posters. The story so far is great, and is really engaging. The world is really interesting, creating a strong desire to dive right into the lore. The gameplay is more forgiving than some would have you believe. I understand that one of the design principles was to make an IE for the way people play IE games, not the way the rules say is was meant to be played. The design appears to have worked. And anytime a player wants to know how some rule works the information is readily accessible in the tool tips or the cyclopedia. Yes some of these boards are filled with those saying, some class is completely useless or points in such and such a stat is wasted. But they are overblown. You can be a bow wielding Ranger, and it works. You also don’t have to min/max you stats with any class to be viable. Its true some builds shine brighter than others, and some classes are better at some roles than other. On the whole it doesn’t matter all that much, it’s a single player game. It can really be played anyway the player wants. No one has to play with the optimized party. I haven’t, and it has been challenging, rewarding, and completely playable. I have been running with the companions you get along the way mostly, only made one hireling monk to see how it worked. My playstyle changed when a new NPC joined, and that transition has been a fun experience all by itself. The combat is fun, not tedious, and not a mystery. In the IE games I would hear “weapon has no effect!” Then I would have to guess, search online, for what the heck was going wrong. Thank god Pillars has a wealth of information at my fingertips. I am also so pleased that this game is real-time with a pause. Turn-based games always pull me out of the immersion. So I want to see more, lots more. Tweak the game mechanics maybe, but don’t reinvent the wheel for the expansion/sequels. I would love to adventure in this world with new characters with a new story, but this engine. This post wasn’t really for anyone but Obsidian. Just wanted to say thanks for making a great game.

Yeah you sum it up really nicely. I would like to point out that the augments for the spells for rest system don’t really add up, both the "its tradition" and the resource mechanic. To be efficient with your spell casters you have to have meta knowledge, like “I know what mobs and how many I will be fighting in the next two maps." Roleplaying, or simply on the first play through, will leave the player without this info. The resource limiting aspect is meaningless if I am not given a good indication that I should cast a spell at a certain point and I am not going to be severely impaired in the near future. The closest thing the game has right now is like a dialog scene. Dialog often equals a boss fight, blows the spells. Outside of that it’s not strategic or even tactical, the player is just blind until the second play through or consulting with the strategy guide.