Sepp

To get the discussion a bit down to earth again (or something!) you might want to take a look at the Episode III novelization. Which was, though not actually written by !George Lucas!, read and edited and revised by him several times. It gives no IT IS ACTUALLY LIKE THIS OR THAT answer either since characters only speculate about it themselves, but it's interesting and relevant nonetheless. AND it didn't make George Lucas edit it out or anything, so who knows . . .

"Listen well." Her voice was warm and kind, and her breath smelled of spices grown in alien soil. "Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick. You will find no truth in me." She came close enough that her whiskers tickled his ear, and whispered, "Though you believe nothing else, you may rest your faith on this." Vergere rocks. I meant to say, however, that neither did Kreia alway lie, nor is everybody in Star Wars necessarily Good or Eeeevil at heart. Enter no conflict against fanatics unless you can defuse them. Oppose a religion with another religion only if your proofs (miracles) are irrefutable or if you can mesh in a way that the fanatics accept you as god-inspired. This has long been the barrier to science assuming a mantle of divine revelation. Science is so obviously man-made. Fanatics (and many are fanatic on one subject or another) must know where you stand, but more important, must recognize who whispers in your ear. - Missionaria Protectiva, Primary Teaching Yes I quote too much.

Awww. How boring. =(

???

What's "nature," exactly? It has a will? Woah. Sounds bold. (rock analogy? Ah, found it, first page. Don't see what's up with "nature" and its "will" though.)

Mmmmmhhhz, thought-provoking stuff. metadigital: As to what you called a chaotic non-deterministic universe vs. meaningful coincidences - an existing mix of both sounds "plausible" to me. Ehm. Stuff! Judeo-Christianity is not what I would compare the Force to. It is almost 100% the Tao. From a certain point of view. Also regarding what the "balance" means I think. Not the greyish-ness that is equally distant from light and dark because it is "neutral". But the state of atunement to the comos and whatnot that is beyond nomeclature like good or evil (but which would, by us, still be described as "good" in a sense of universal harmony and stuff). That making any sense? http://tao.nolallen.com/taoteching.html See chapter 16 for example. And a lot of others. Uh. o_O

Agreed with Luke. Disagreed with the "not sociable" part. "Unreasoning passion is the province of darkness," Vergere said. "But an understood emotion is not unreasoning. That is why the route to mastery is through self-knowledge." Her tilted eyes widened. "It

The "flame" line was a nod to The Great Phantom who mentioned that it's almost strange that no horde of fanatics has yet attempted to conquer this thread as so often happens. I thought what I posted would make for splendid target-practive indeed for such people, is all. Why, sure. What I was trying to get at is: I guess the Force is to blame for Shmi's pregnancy. As in, it was the will of the Force. That kind of direction. ["Certainly" not two distinct wills. The Force is one. *New flame target.*] You're right, of course. I think Luke didn't mean anything much beyond "do what would be in keeping with the Force" an-- ugh. Well. Aren't the Ten Commandments, like, the will of God? ^___^' Anyway, this is terrible to really discuss and more like "guessing." Guess: The Force, like God, would be most delighted if everything would be just fine. In balance and all that. Terribly generalized, but eh. I think that's a pretty safe guess, even. But maybe not. Moreover, the Force, like God and what-have-you, can also at times apart from guiding things if listened/allowed to, go so far as to actually directly influence or do something. That the Force has or has not got a "will" does not have to be tied to there being "choice" or not. "It is said that the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost.But in you... I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from its will. And that is what pleases me.You are beautiful to me, exile. A dead spot in the Force, an emptiness in which its will might be denied. I use it as I would use a poison, and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn the way to kill it.But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on a thing she despises." ^Reading that, I think she does not say "I found out the Force has a will" or something like that. She says "It is said that the Force has a will" as if it is something commonly heard or accapted or often said and she with all her experiences believes it as well. What sets her apart from these others and what your question goes at I guess is that she equals Will of the Force = No Choice. =( That, I don't believe. Which doesn't have to mean anything, of course. After Nietzsche: There is no such thing as free will. There is also no such thing as unfree will. There is only strong will, and weak will.

Favorite: Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II. Hate: Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. Silly. Stupid. Short. Lightsaber-simulation and nothing much more.

You don't "normally" become a Jedi at your "high" age. The vast majority of soon-to-be Jedi are snatched away by Jedi cradle robbers as babies from their parents rather early on. Or as Dooku put it at the age of nine: Every Jedi is a child his parents decided they could live without.

Too soon to say. I'll be watching its progress. I've always wanted to order Star Destroyers and TIE squadrons around and stuff. If it's done . . . "right." Rebellion didn't do too well in that regard . . . I don't expect anything much. It could be good, though. Maybe. Hopefully. Argh.

The New Jedi Order. For all its notable and not-so-notable "flaws" - the other series have more as far as I'm concerned. ^__^

The nature of the Force and what it means to be a Jedi is a central theme of The New Jedi Order series. To be a Jedi is to serve the Force. "We serve it best by listening to its will, and serving the good with our every action

? The Force doesn't have "sides." :ph34r:

[unnecessary Correction:] Brian Herbert, sir. Frank Herbert was the brillant father, don'tcha forget. " Apart from the unfortunate confusion, I'll have to agree.