[Change inventory system from "PoE stash" to "IE encumbrance"]

I think people don't realize that by having negative things in a game that you "love to hate" you actually feel better when you over come them..

 

I don't mean that repetitive or poorly designed Inventory screens or annoying bags of holding / scroll cases / ect.. should stay. Those were engine limitations that need to die in a fire. However.. when OE just gives you everything on a silver platter.. it cheapens the entire experience.

 

I think everyone forgets those magical moments where your just a lone guy.. scratching and crawling out of candle keep trying to make something happen.. It feels overwhelming.. maybe even annoying.. but in the end.. you feel good. You can't just teleport every mundane thing to a magical infinite stash and sell it all off.. You feel weak and helpless.. you try to find every advantage you can.. you do any easy quest or take any companion because without every tiny advantage.. your screwed.

 

I am talking first play throughs before these games got meta'd to death and you could solo the game with an inventory of monster summoning scrolls and fireballs.

 

We will see when the game releases.. I think the Stash thing is gonna be nixxed for PoE 2 if we ever get that far.

[Another comment on the exp system]

I still can't understand why lack of kill experience makes combat pointless. Does that mean after you hit the level cap combat suddenly becomes unfun and pointless? Then, you are just gonna stealth past everything with your max level characters since you no longer get experience?

 

uhh.. Nope. Usually by the time you hit level cap the game has been mostly explored.. most side quests are finished.. The game tends to fall into a much more linear narrative where you are basically wrapping things up..

 

Maybe finish up doing the hard optional dungeons that are really challenging.. maybe those will have really great item based rewards.. possibly the best in the game I would imagine just like Durlags or arguably Watchers Keep.. (depending what your building).. Lets you feel that sense of accomplishment for beating something harder then the final boss and getting some of the best advantages the game has to offer.

 

Then for that closure of the great writing and plot you've been following.. you finish off the final baddy and play the game again!

 

Sounds perfect to me actually.

 

EDIT

Rereading what I just typed.. Sounds better then perfect.

[Do you want experience from combat?]

 

 

I understand english is not your first language..

 

Wait what? I seriously thought its all on purpose.

 

 

I need a fry meme picture right now

[Do you want experience from combat?]

 

 

 

 

GrinningReaper659: LOL! They all left in disappointment, I'm guessing. I already know a few, which is really sad. If only the devs had commented on this fast, on their stance on the xp system in practice, and also given us some more definitive pointers on what can or can not be changed.

Yep, a lot of people have left, during the Kickstarter even. They could smell the foulness of these decisions miles away. I wish my RPG sniffer was as good as theirs. (To my defense, I wasn't following the Kickstarter as closely as I should have)

 

 

 

Good thing for you that you're not out any money, then. Unless I'm mistaken?

 

 

 

or you can accept that a poll such as this represents only the barest fraction o' purchasers and that regardless o' poll results the developers will be more interested in how QA folks actual play the game and alter their behaviors based on quest xp rewards... meaning this is largely a pointless endeavour. nevertheless, it don't hurt to do yet another poll on the same issue that has zero chance o' being changed at this point regardless o' results, so knock yourselves out.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we didn't add a vote

If everything we vote on or write is so meaningless, then why are you even here on the forum?

 

 

I believe he's speaking to ~Le XP Debate~ specifically.  Ihr krieg ist vorbei, ok?

 

 

I have nothing against Gromnir at all.. he seems like a nice guy.. but I will never begrudge someone who is confused about what he is saying.. I have no idea half the time what Gromnir is talking about.. all I know is he is having a lot of good fun doing it.

 

I hope he knows that when debating topics "in-Character" he is just asking for misinterpretation.. lol

 

experience reveals that there is far less misinterpretation than you might expect. what is common is the stuff such as,

 

"Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare.

 

"HA! Not So Fun Understanding What You're Saying!"

 

in point o' fact, the Gromnir shtick is kinda a foolproof schmuck detector.

 

...

 

and am betting you understood this post quite well.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

I take back you being a nice guy ... Do you have illusions that your writing style is fully legible to everyone?  Sometimes you speak quite clearly.. but when you get going with all your ye olde orc talk coupled with almost no grammatical structure or spell checking..

 

I understand english is not your first language..

 

I don't wanna be a grammar nazi but common.. I really don't understand you most of the time.. Want me to lie? Maybe I can catch the jist of it if I read closely but you jump around all over the place..

[Backer beta: Developer Impressions]

I agree with all of this. Spot on. Echoes my sentiments exactly. Well, except for combat XP. Bugs need to be ironed out before I can make a decision on that one.

 

So close.. I guess the sawyer koolaid is too strong.

[Do you want experience from combat?]

 

 

GrinningReaper659: LOL! They all left in disappointment, I'm guessing. I already know a few, which is really sad. If only the devs had commented on this fast, on their stance on the xp system in practice, and also given us some more definitive pointers on what can or can not be changed.

Yep, a lot of people have left, during the Kickstarter even. They could smell the foulness of these decisions miles away. I wish my RPG sniffer was as good as theirs. (To my defense, I wasn't following the Kickstarter as closely as I should have)

 

 

 

Good thing for you that you're not out any money, then. Unless I'm mistaken?

 

 

 

or you can accept that a poll such as this represents only the barest fraction o' purchasers and that regardless o' poll results the developers will be more interested in how QA folks actual play the game and alter their behaviors based on quest xp rewards... meaning this is largely a pointless endeavour. nevertheless, it don't hurt to do yet another poll on the same issue that has zero chance o' being changed at this point regardless o' results, so knock yourselves out.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we didn't add a vote

If everything we vote on or write is so meaningless, then why are you even here on the forum?

 

 

I believe he's speaking to ~Le XP Debate~ specifically.  Ihr krieg ist vorbei, ok?

 

 

I have nothing against Gromnir at all.. he seems like a nice guy.. but I will never begrudge someone who is confused about what he is saying.. I have no idea half the time what Gromnir is talking about.. all I know is he is having a lot of good fun doing it.

 

I hope he knows that when debating topics "in-Character" he is just asking for misinterpretation.. lol

[Do you want experience from combat?]

 

 

Oh you..

And why are you, of all people, now giving me the roll-eyes?

 

 

Your posts always make me laugh. You have a really dry wit.. I wish I was as snarky as you. Haha

[Do you want experience from combat?]

 

 

or you can accept that a poll such as this represents only the barest fraction o' purchasers and that regardless o' poll results the developers will be more interested in how QA folks actual play the game and alter their behaviors based on quest xp rewards... meaning this is largely a pointless endeavour. nevertheless, it don't hurt to do yet another poll on the same issue that has zero chance o' being changed at this point regardless o' results, so knock yourselves out.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we didn't add a vote

 

Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare.

 

HA! Not So Fun Understanding What You're Saying!

 

 

 

 

Role playing an orc?

 

 

It's really hard for me to understand what he's talking about.. He's been doing it for years and I usually just skip over his posts.

 

 

Quest-based XP and a modest amount of random XP for killing critters satisfies everyone

 

No, it doesn't. There are reasons why people specifically don't want Kill-XP in the game.

 

 

Which can be solved but that takes too much logic on your end. *Flings poo*

 

 

 

I love how when there's a debate thread, it's "Obsidian is ignoring the screaming majority that want combat XP! Look at everyone saying they want it!".  As soon as there's a poll that goes against combat XP it's "Obviously polls aren't representative at all and just a bunch of garbage!".  Not that it matters anyway, which makes this kind of silly "Vox Populi" circus even funnier.

 

Almost the exact opposite happened in the last thread.. the votes were heavily biased in favor of combat xp last I checked.. and althought objective based xp wasn't far behind.. almost NOBODY wanted the current system..

 

The first person to say polls are inherently flawed was me and it had nothing to do with the results.. it was me recognizing that even if Combat XP was the winning selection, I don't expect obsidian to make a change based on a forum poll.. only register people aren't happy with the current direction.

 

Way to misquote and skew reality to fit your imaginary world.

[Do you want experience from combat?]

or you can accept that a poll such as this represents only the barest fraction o' purchasers and that regardless o' poll results the developers will be more interested in how QA folks actual play the game and alter their behaviors based on quest xp rewards... meaning this is largely a pointless endeavour. nevertheless, it don't hurt to do yet another poll on the same issue that has zero chance o' being changed at this point regardless o' results, so knock yourselves out.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we didn't add a vote

 

Why do we talk like we are a third year elementary student writing shakespeare.

 

HA! Not So Fun Trying To Understand What You're Saying!

 

 

 

 

They should probably just rename the game Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests because you don't receive any experience from combat, using skills, exploring or anything else other than doing the bidding of villagers. Exploration apparently wasn't part of thier design methodology.

 

It is hard to feel immersed in an RPG where the core activity is combat, yet stealth is king, because encounters are pointless and unrewarding chores with regard to both loot and XP. Obsidian might as well just remove the trash mobs too, because the mini-game of avoiding practically every encounter is not enjoyable.

 

Baldur's Gate was about combat and exploration, but I guess combat and exploration aren't important anymore.

 

 

Oh you..

 

 

 

FYI: The last poll was locked for reaching 500 posts.. not sure how he can bump it. Unless theres ANOTHER combat xp poll running around here..

[Sensuki's Suggestions #013: Take out the trash in the Dyrford Crossing]

Jeebus, guys. Do you really have to turn every thread into a whine about no combat XP?

 

Yes!

[The experience system]

Do we really need another thread deticated to this topic?

 

Sorry to ruin your forum with our useless opinions

 

 

 

 

Do we really need another thread deticated to this topic?

 

Why post in it?

 

Because it slowly turned into captain ahab chasing the white whale of kill-xp. You wont get it, like some other things it wont change no matter how long you discuss it. I agree that it is disheartening to see thing not in the game that you personaly really like but at this point it doesnt matter anymore. Aim your effort at something that is not set in stone, deal with it and move along.

 

 

People like discussing it.. can you stop derailing the thread.

[The experience system]

Josh Sawyer comes across, to me, as a decent person and a passionate advocate for gaming. For example, IMO Fallout 3 NV is a masterpiece and Sawyer should take not inconsiderable credit for his role in that.

 

Totally Agree.. I'm glad he cuts through the **** and says like it is, it's refreshing after all the PR spin you hear everywhere else.. Nobody is saying he doesn't care or isn't a good designer. He is extremely passionate I just wish he cared more about our opinions.

[The experience system]

 

 

I wouldn't either. The fans here fall on the side of passionate that is way past polite discussion. Sawyer shouldn't come anywhere near this thread to "engage" the backers that have forum signatures riddled with criticisms against the choices he's made and naming him personally. I know this is the internet and all and a tame part of it at that, but I mean come on, surely any one of the people here would find such a personal tone of aggressive criticism offensive if applied to your own workplaces. And even if you have an unnaturally thick skin, this type of debate is unlikely to go in a productive direction; the talk has been had, the decision made, and nothing we say here is likely to be even remotely new, it's simply a rehashing of arguments or statement of preferences, therefore an utter waste of his time. 

 

But I still am inclined to disagree with No XP. I'm just open to being proven wrong, or informed once a change is made.

 

Wowow.. You do know that sawyer can dish it out with the best of us right? Have you actually read some of the stuff he's said? I would never talk about him the same way I would Tim Cain or MCA.. only Sawyer provides the really good gems via quotes.

 

I don't think I have ever called Sawyer a bad designer.. he's not.. he's very intelligent.. But he is very brash, stubborn and can even be sorta hostile sometimes.. The only reason we hold him up as a poster child is because there are just so many good quotes of him trashing other designers, players or ideas.

 

He's no angel on this crazy internet man. Do your homework before you roll a white knight class.

 

I do like to keep my criticism of him not personal. I would never attack him as a person and if anything I ever said seemed too far or too personal I apologize.

 

 

I get what you mean but just because Sawyer has no problem "dishing it out," I would think that doesn't entitle people to come back stronger and harder and feel like he's okay with that. But hey, maybe he'd disagree and think it's fine, who knows... we are after all talking about someone neither of us know personally (which I am officially starting to find kind of weird so I'm gonna stop this here!)

 

As for the quotes trashing other players, designers or ideas... well I have a feeling that you're exaggerating a measured argument against something as "trashing it," but hell, I'll bite: care for some examples? That actually sounds like it'd be super entertaining :D

 

 

So you didn't google roguey.. made me do it.. When he says most games get it wrong and most designers don't give 2 ****s about their product.. thats not a good old fashion trashing?

 

 

(regarding crpg rulesets) "Pretty much all games get it wrong."

"An awesome game with a crappy ruleset would be a better game if it had a better ruleset. Again, why grit your teeth and accept fundamentally dumb systems and their dumb adaptations into different media when such things clearly could be designed and executed better?"

"'Designer off in the clouds' generally only works out when the designer has a very solid technical understanding and focuses heavily on both gameplay mechanics and player experience. Most designers really couldn't give two ****s about either."

[The experience system]

I wouldn't either. The fans here fall on the side of passionate that is way past polite discussion. Sawyer shouldn't come anywhere near this thread to "engage" the backers that have forum signatures riddled with criticisms against the choices he's made and naming him personally. I know this is the internet and all and a tame part of it at that, but I mean come on, surely any one of the people here would find such a personal tone of aggressive criticism offensive if applied to your own workplaces. And even if you have an unnaturally thick skin, this type of debate is unlikely to go in a productive direction; the talk has been had, the decision made, and nothing we say here is likely to be even remotely new, it's simply a rehashing of arguments or statement of preferences, therefore an utter waste of his time. 

 

But I still am inclined to disagree with No XP. I'm just open to being proven wrong, or informed once a change is made.

 

Wowow.. You do know that sawyer can dish it out with the best of us right? Have you actually read some of the stuff he's said? I would never talk about him the same way I would Tim Cain or MCA.. only Sawyer provides the really good gems via quotes.

 

I don't think I have ever called Sawyer a bad designer.. he's not.. he's very intelligent.. But he is very brash, stubborn and can even be sorta hostile sometimes.. The only reason we hold him up as a poster child is because there are just so many good quotes of him trashing other designers, players or ideas.

 

He's no angel on this crazy internet man. Do your homework before you roll a white knight class.

 

I do like to keep my criticism of him not personal. I would never attack him as a person and if anything I ever said seemed too far or too personal I apologize.

 

EDIT:

If you want more of his quotes let me know.. I got a collection going (I just google roguey and pick the best ones that come up)

[The experience system]

 

 

Sartoris and Immortalis are right about the problems with No XP.

 

Josh is also right about certain circumstances with where an "all creatures/enemies give you XP when you kill them" system leads to unwanted gameplay.

 

 

Why does it have to be one or the other? (I don't think you fairly represented the yellow corner, Mr. Mod!)

• In quest chains, the worry is that if you are asked to side with NPC 'A' or NPC 'B,' siding none and killing all will always be the outcome that nets most profit via XP and loot. While this was true in IE games, this can be balanced by giving no XP is one or the other is killed first, or equal rewards for killing neither or only one, or alternating based on the situation, etc. I hope no one sees this as a problem.
• Trash mobs in IE games gave a negligible amount of XP anyway. So what, 15xp from each Xvart split six ways, whoop-dee-doo! No big loss. But large, powerful creatures, or perhaps enemies above your level or that give some degree of challenge should give you a reward. Do you really want to only be killing things so you can collect the crap they drop and sell it?? It will very rarely be of use to your characters if every encounter works this way.
• Why not give give varying XP, including none, based on the type of encounter? The only reason against doing this that I can think of is that it would require a lot of balancing and effort from devs. Don't get me wrong, this is a valid reason if true, but one that only a dev can comment on.

So... what's wrong with a little of column A and a little of column B? Can't we do a bit of both, specifically to address the problems of either extreme?

 

If you go back and read the 1500 posts on this topic that are all in the threads that got locked.. I mentioned like 5 ways to get around this abuse.. one of them is close to what your saying.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I've heard a lot from people who want Kill XP and next to nothing from people who don't. Do these people actually exist?

 

In the end, as Polanski said, the devs likely are already well enough aware of the pros and cons, I suppose all that's left is to show them our preference while there's still (possibly) a window of opportunity for such a big change to gameplay.

 

Actually, I'm not sure that they could even make such a big change at this point without delaying the game...

 

 

There's a sawyer post flying around that said XP could be changed relatively late in the development cycle if it needed to be.. The balancing though.. that's a bigger problem methinks.

[The experience system]

Sartoris and Immortalis are right about the problems with No XP.

 

Josh is also right about certain circumstances with where an "all creatures/enemies give you XP when you kill them" system leads to unwanted gameplay.

 

 

Why does it have to be one or the other? (I don't think you fairly represented the yellow corner, Mr. Mod!)

• In quest chains, the worry is that if you are asked to side with NPC 'A' or NPC 'B,' siding none and killing all will always be the outcome that nets most profit via XP and loot. While this was true in IE games, this can be balanced by giving no XP is one or the other is killed first, or equal rewards for killing neither or only one, or alternating based on the situation, etc. I hope no one sees this as a problem.
• Trash mobs in IE games gave a negligible amount of XP anyway. So what, 15xp from each Xvart split six ways, whoop-dee-doo! No big loss. But large, powerful creatures, or perhaps enemies above your level or that give some degree of challenge should give you a reward. Do you really want to only be killing things so you can collect the crap they drop and sell it?? It will very rarely be of use to your characters if every encounter works this way.
• Why not give give varying XP, including none, based on the type of encounter? The only reason against doing this that I can think of is that it would require a lot of balancing and effort from devs. Don't get me wrong, this is a valid reason if true, but one that only a dev can comment on.

So... what's wrong with a little of column A and a little of column B? Can't we do a bit of both, specifically to address the problems of either extreme?

 

If you go back and read the 1500 posts on this topic that are all in the threads that got locked.. I mentioned like 5 ways to get around this abuse.. one of them is close to what your saying.

[The experience system]

I can see this game being speed run..

 

Make a human rogue with these attributes.. make sure to buy invisibility scrolls from this vendor.. okay so use them here.. talk to this guy.. run here.. grab this.. kill that.. you should be level 6 now.. talk to this guy.. pass the diplomacy check.. okay go here and stealth past this entire map.. no reason just wolves and beetles.

[Sensuki's Suggestions #013: Take out the trash in the Dyrford Crossing]

Nice attempt at a deflection, Immortalis.

 

(You don't have to fight them.)

 

Stop flinging poop please

[The experience system]

 

He would just call us an irrational grognards who love degenerative gameplay and hate balance, if he did show up here.

 

Then he would once again declare Baldurs Gate 2 as a terrible game, and that we are idiots for liking it, because Darklands is the best RPG ever.

 

 

I wonder how many people would kickstart a darklands RPG.. he's just an older grognard then us..

 

WAIT.. Josh is a Fanboy of his old school game and thinks IE is what we think PoE is.. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!

[The experience system]

Here is one of my major concerns with the quest only xp system. It can lead to the player feeling like they should only experience content if there is a quest directly associated with their current activity. I had this thought initially while reading Sensuki's comments about the wolf encounter in this thread.

 

One of the fun aspects of BG and BG2 for me especially on my first playthrough was simply wandering around.  Once you started BG2 Chapter 2 you were simply inundated with quests and new maps to travel to. Although it was often a quest that opened up the new map, you as the player were free to explore that content as you wish.

 

This would still be the case with Pillars of Eternity's quest only xp system, with one major drawback. If you are exploring an area simply because you enjoy wandering around to experience the content (heck maybe you are role playing as some Gandalf-like figure that wanders around getting cool nicknames and nearly getting smallfolk killed on adventures) and you run across those wolves in the ruins. You dispatch them, but not without taking some amount of health damage or expending a non-zero amount of consumable resources. If those wolves aren't directly tied to some reward then you as a player have just needed to spend strategic resources (or mental effort dealing with tactics) without equivalent compensation.

 

Maybe you are ok with this, just like some people are ok with playing a character that might receive less xp in BG2 for being diplomatic. If no, then no harm no foul. You move on.

 

However, maybe not. Maybe you feel like the resources you had to expend to deal with the unrewarded fight was not worth it. This worries you because now you feel like you won't be as prepared to face the undoubted encounters you will face when you decide to actually do that quest that brought you here in the first place. You are now worried that by expending resources to deal with the wolves you have essentially "gimped" your party's ability to complete content that will be rewarded. I could go into detail about why this is silly, but I know there are plenty of players that will think this why.

 

Why do I know that? Because that is the same thinking underlying the "degenerate gameplay" that Josh Sawyer hates so much. What is so sadly ironic is that by trying to eliminate the possibilities of degenerate gameplay, the designers, with this quest only xp system, have ensured that a portion of players will participate in it.

 

There is a non-zero number of players who, when faced with the wolf scenario I outlined above, which we already know is in the game, will simply reload and sneak past or never engage the wolves unless they have a quest that requires it.

 

The only way the developers can ensure that kind of gameplay doesn't happen is to make sure each and every encounter is either tied directly to a quest or tied to other rewards e.g. loot (but not xp!) that makes it worthwhile. By trying to eliminate degenerate gameplay by removing combat, skill, or dialogue xp, Obsidian has just insured that a portion of the playerbase will participate in degenerate gameplay by reloading and not experiencing that content unless it is tied to a quest reward.

 

This is bad game design. XP is simply another reward system, similar to loot, or plot, or whatever. If you think you can remove degenerate gameplay by having quest only xp you have fundamentally misunderstood why some gamers play the way they do.

 

Moreover, quest only xp wasn't how the IE games handled this mechanic. So why change it? Considering that the developers laid out their guiding principals for this game as:

 

 

Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past:Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing.

 

and

 

 

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving ofIcewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

 

Why is there not a very high bar for changing these kind of core mechanics? Wouldn't it just be easier to stick to what is known to work (even if its not perfect) so that the development team can instead commit more resources to producing fun and engaging content?

 

I made this exact arguement my first day on this forum.. it hasn't changed one bit and I agree fully. One of my favorite things about BG 1 was that exploration.. I almost liked the lack of quests or direction.. I just walked in any direction and sometimes you would meet NPC's who were crazy or **** that shoot of a quick conversation then you wreck them.. gain experience for beating a fight that was potentially really hard for you.. had to use every consumable and every trick of the trade.. and you felt great.

 

Now it's like.. oh that big bad guy is here.. go fight him and a 100 ****ing beetles too.. when you get back ill give you a farmers hat +3 and 2 level ups. (exaggerated obviously but that's how it feels to me)

[The experience system]

Old thread.

 

In the red corner, we have people who want to stick with the tradition of Infinity Engine games.

 

Over in the blue corner, the wide eyed idealists who want fair XP distribution for all players regardless of playstyle.

 

And apparently there's a few people who lept in and started painting another corner yellow advocating for learn-by-doing.

 

Still have plenty of corners in this ring, it's not a triangle. So give your feedback. But I want a nice clean discussion, no low blows or personal attacks.

 

 

If I'v gained any non-combat experience on this forum..

 

 

[Sensuki's Suggestions #013: Take out the trash in the Dyrford Crossing]

I'm pretty sure that was your argument.

 

I'm pretty sure that you don't even try to understand.. I didn't get that from what he is saying..

 

I think the problem is that I am willing to see your side of the argument.. I totally get and agree with the pluses that no kill-xp is trying to achieve.. my beef is just the method to get there. You and a few others are actually just against the kill-xp system because it seems "archaic" and "dated" 2014 YOLO.. No matter what explanation or half measure I offer.. it's not enough.. inexcusable.. NEVER!

 

Like you just won't allow it to exist even though people in this thread who are against it.. are explaining in their own words that fighting is lackluster because it doesn't feel like it has purpose.. but nobody is allowed to say.. Kill -XP is missing.. no we have to point and type around that but still we say .. "Theses wolves and beetles and lions are boring and I want some meaning from fighting them"

[No experience from combat]

 

If only there were ways to "flag" NPC's to prevent that...

 

But that is so much extra work, why would you want to make the poor devs do so much work...

 

 

Work is hard.. multi classing.. unique classes with special feats.. balanced combat xp.. its too hard... it's too much work to keep track of it.. good thing our "publisher" is now a forum of 15 year old cry babies.. otherwise we might be held accountable and actually need to work a little overtime here and there..

 

It's interesting to see the huge difference between InXile and Obsidian and how they deal with their community. I am sure many people weren't happy with the direction of wasteland 2.. but at least Brother None doesn't treat / ignore his own community like they are disease ridden pariahs after the checks all cash.

[No experience from combat]

 

I think anything you do in this game should give XP, whether that be conversations, disarming traps, combat, etc. I don't see the problem here? You are awarded with XP in anything you choose to do.

 

Deus ex had that, its not a real rpg but the underlying system is the same. People sneaked around to get sneak xp, than used diplomacy or whatever to get another chunk xp for the same route and in the end killed all the npc's they talked with 2 min ago because it gave them extra xp.

 

 

 

Your right.. there's no way to solve this abusive behaivior except to axe the entire system.. like if theres a bump in the road.. lets just demolish the whole highway.

[Sensuki's Suggestions #013: Take out the trash in the Dyrford Crossing]

 

 

I would like to see monster hunting mini-quests, that you can undertake at any level. As "degenerative" as BG's combat xp mechanic may have been, I really enjoyed skipping towards hard encounters early on for the extra XP bump, the challenge, with the quick-leveling as an extra reward for my trouble. 

 

If we can't have this, why not institutionalize specific monster hunting quests? I don't mean "Kill x number of y trash mobs," but like very challenging fights with an appropriately large reward if you've mastered combat at levels lowers than would be typically expected to beat said enemy.

 

Does this not let us have our cake and eat it too?

Why..

 

Seriously Why?

 

Why is everyone dodging the obvious solution with these lame attempts at solving the problem that has one huge obvious solution.

 

You want bandits to ride the wolves or the wolves to be eating pigs with dialogue and lore popups..

you want obsidian to stop bug fixing to make an eco system with realistic wolf simulation..

you want farmer joe to need 10 wolf pelts for a new coat..

you want loot and items to fall out of the wolfs asss when it dies..

 

just make them give kill xp..

 

 

Look, I'm totally with you there. I'm just trying not to derail this thread, and also, there's a very real chance we might not get that change made, so I'm just offering some potential next-best-case scenarios. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, that's all I'm saying.

 

 

Im totally okay with half way points but adding a bunch of fetch quests to the game is a half way point everyone will hate.