Mindstalker thoughts?

[DigitalDemon]

So, after playing Cipher in the first instalment of the game, I'm really excited about the idea of rolling a Cipher/Rogue multiclass in PoE2. As far as I understand, there are two basic ways to build a Mindstalker. The first one is to combine Soul Blade with Assassin and focus solely on dealing melee damage through sneak attacks and Soul Annihilation. It's straightforward, but it looks a bit boring to me. The other option is to use Cipher spells like Eyestrike, Phantom Foes, Mental Binding, Secret Horrors etc. to debilitate the enemies with afflictions, and then utilize the Rogue's sneak attacks to deal bonus melee damage against them. This looks a lot more appealing to me, as I'm used to playing the Cipher as a hybrid caster/melee character, but I'm not sure how exactly to approach building it. So I'd appreciate if those who played the Mindstalker in beta could provide some insight, specifically as to the following:

 

1) Is it worth picking Soul Blade if I intend my Cipher to be a caster as well as melee damage dealer? As I understand, it will severely limit the Cipher's ability to open the fight with CC/affliction spells. On the other hand, maybe it's worth to open with a sneak attack/backstab from stealth, generate focus, and then either cast a CC spell and follow up with sneak attacks against afflicted enemies, or use Soul Annihilation against a particularly dangerous enemy? In other words, how much will Soul Blade hold back the Cipher as a CC caster?

 

2) Is Ascendant a viable alternative? Will opening the fight with a sneak attack generate sufficient focus to immediately reach the Ascended status?

 

3) On the rogue side, is it worth picking the Assassin? As I understand, it will pretty much necessitate frequent use of Rogue abilities like Smoke Veil to re-enter stealth and benefit from Assassin's bonus damage. Maybe plain Rogue will be better for this particular build? Is it even worth taking Backstab if the primary modus operandi of the build will be to deal sneak attacks against afflicted enemies?

 

4) I've heard that casting in melee range has become really difficult in PoE2. Does it mean that my Mindstalker will have to take Rogue abilities like Escape or Shadow Step to break engagement and gain some breathing space to cast CC spells, or can those be cast successfully in the midst of combat?

 

Well, those are just the main questions that came to my mind. If I'm making any incorrect assumptions about the game mechanics, please correct me as I don't have access to the beta, and all my information is based on what I've read on the forums or seen on youtube. Any advice will be greatly appreciated

[Voss]

One of the big problems with cypher \rogue (and most spellcaster\rogue combos) is recovery time vs duration.

 

Mental binding, for example, lasts 6 seconds and the recovery time is 3 seconds (plus armor penalty). By the time you can attack the paralyzed enemy to get the sneak attack bonus, half (or more) of the duration is gone.

 

By contrast rogue abilities can last 15 seconds or more and depending on weapon, much shorter activation and recovery times, so a lot more sneak attack damage can be applied.

 

As a general rule (there are exceptions, like wizard for defensive buffs) rogues and debuff spellcasters need to be separate people in the party. There are great synergies, but to truly take advantage the caster and striker need to be on different timers.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Voss

[DigitalDemon]

One of the big problems with cypher \rogue (and most spellcaster\rogue combos) is recovery time vs duration.

 

Mental binding, for example, lasts 6 seconds and the recovery time is 3 seconds (plus armor penalty). By the time you can attack the paralyzed enemy to get the sneak attack bonus, half (or more) of the duration is gone.

Ah, that's exactly why I was asking for advice from people who have actually played the combo Haven't thought of that. But then, looking at PoE wiki (not sure if it's current or not):

 

- Eyestrike: cast time 4.5 sec, recovery time 2 sec, duration 20 sec

- Phantom Foes: cast time 0.5 sec, recovery time 4 sec, duration 18 sec

- Secret horrors: cast time 0.5 sec, recovery time 4 sec, duration 18 sec

 

Those spells should provide ample opportunities for sneak attacks, shouldn't they?

[Voss]

True, those durations are long enough. Eyestrike has a problem with getting it off in melee (especially against creatures with interrupts) just because of the cast time.

[pdn]

I've decided to give the Mindstalker (Beguiler/Rogue) a go, but I've got no clue which abilities to get. What should I start with? Also, is it possible to respec in this game?

[CENIC]

I've been playing as a Beguiler/Rogue with a rapier.

 

I position my party carefully to make sure I'm flanking enemies, and cast "Deception" Cipher abilities whenever I have enough Focus.

 

Eyestrike takes a while to cast, but the effects are nice. Phantom Foes is a must-have for this type of build. Mental Binding also has nice effects.

 

I think this build works better as part of a team than solo. Even if I don't get to take advantage of the effects of my skills because of Recovery, my companions do.

Edited May 11, 2018 by CENIC

[pdn]

I've been playing as a Beguiler/Rogue with a rapier.

 

I position my party carefully to make sure I'm flanking enemies, and cast "Deception" Cipher abilities whenever I have enough Focus.

 

Eyestrike takes a while to cast, but the effects are nice. Phantom Foes is a must-have for this type of build. Mental Binding also has nice effects.

 

I think this build works better as part of a team than solo. Even if I don't get to take advantage of the effects of my skills because of Recovery, my companions do.

 

Thanks! How's it working out, is it any fun? Is the damage good? Gonna play with a full party on my frist playthrough so should be fine

Still quite unsure how all the weapons work/matter, I chose Sabres and Axes I think. Bad choice?