What traits do undead have in this game?

[Madscientist]

I was thinking about how it would be to play with an undead char.

I backed the game, but I did not have enough money to create an NPC.

Anyway, I thought about having the following char:

Somebody wants to make himself undead to "live" forever. He knew that undead have to eat flesh to avoid decomposing, so he became a corpse eater as training for being undead. Together with some others he entered some ruins to perform a ritual that makes him an undead. Finally he achieved his goal but not in the expected way. As they explore the ruin, the path to the exit collapses behind them and only he gets killed while all others survive. But his soul does not leave his body and so he becomes a fampyr. There is no exit and no food around, but he "survives" by eating his former companions. When the party of the watcher explores the ruin, they open a collapsed passage and find him as the only "survivor". When you give the right answers he may join your party and he finds out that being undead has also other side effects than the hunger for flesh.

Alternatively, the watcher is the undead. He gets killed when Eothas destroys Caed Nua but he continues his journey as fampyr with the corpse eater class ( single or multi class).

 

So after thinking of this story, I was thinking about the racial features of an undead: ( those are my personal ideas for such a "race")

- minus 2 points constitution: being rotten does not fit well to being healthy

- minus 2 points perception: being rotten does not help you to see better

- immunity against constitution afflictions

- you are a vessel, not a kith

- once per encounter you can frighten all nearby enemies (you look like a normal person, but for this spell you show them your undead nature.)

 

So what other things could we know about undead:

I think mostly about sentient and somewhat sane creatures, such as fampyrs and liches. Undead "people" are more interesting than mindless skelletons.

- So they need to eat flesh to stay sane. But can they eat normal food as well and do they benefit from doing so?

- Do they need to breath or sleep? They can talk and how can you talk without breathing?

- Do they get damaged by healing? ( I do not think so. Its a dead body with a soul that keeps it "alive", not some negative energy )

- When they fall in battle and you cast resurrect, do they become alive? ( I do not think so. They will stand up as undead. )

- What other traits could undead have? I think especially about how being undead affects their mind and behaviour.

- Is the term "undead" used in the PoE universe at all? We know the term vessel for things that have a soul but are not alive in the usual sense. But I think there is a big difference between a construct ( like the devil of caroc) and an undead like Icanthia in heritage hill.

[Boeroer]

Well a first idea one can get from the immunities of fampyrs in PoE:

 

Immunity to: Charmed, Confused, Disease, Dominated, Poison, Sickened, Unconscious

 

If we look at the Devil of Caroc who is a "Living Machine":

 

Immunity to: Charmed, Confused, Disease, Dominated, Poison, Sickened, Unconscious (same as Fampyr).

Cannot use food, drinks, or drugs

 

They can get healed/resurrected in the game.

 

I think it's mostly the blood they are after since that is the main source of the essence. Since they are immune to unconscious I guess they don't sleep as well.

 

There is Necromancy in PoE which is not the same as animancy (Necromancy = magic, Animancy = science). Concelhaut and Helig are Necromancers - I don't know if they are also "official" animancers but I guess not. Maybe they use the term "undead", but I haven't seen it in the game (or more precisely: can't remember).

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Technically, the Devil of Caroc in the first game is "undead" within the context of the setting; she's a "vessel".

[Boeroer]

She's labeled as living machine. I don't think that vessel equals undead.

 

I mean she never died in the first place.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

your new av freaked me out, boeroer, very scary

 

that said, 

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Invoke_Vessels

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Holy_Radiance

 

There's a reason that (for example) St. Ydwin's Redeemer destroys all vessels, not just traditional human undead. In Eora, undead are just flesh golems.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Boeroer]

I don't think so. I think that vessel is the umbrella term for constructs, animats, "undead" like Fampyrs and Guls, animated weapons, liches, wichts and so on...

 

For example a lich is a vessel, but not an undead:

 

Some wizards seek fame, others fortune. Many seek both. For those whom neither will satisfy, there is immortality. Few wizards possess the knowledge to grasp at eternity, and fewer still the fortitude, because the cost is steep indeed: one must sacrifice one's soul.

Neither living nor dead, a lich retains their mental acuity but does not hunger for the flesh of kith as undead creatures do. To avoid the decay of undeath, a wizard must bind their soul to their body. However, the process for doing so is unpleasant in the extreme. First, they must carve a series of intricate runes into their skull, then overlay that with a complex net of spellwork, and finally complete the transformation by boring a hole into their forehead that they then plug with a large piece of adra.

Also wichts are vessels but not undead. Their bodies didn't die but were born without a soul - then infused with an animal's soul.

 

Since even PoE's lore makes a difference between vessel (as an umbrella term) and undead (as a special type of vessel) and even between necromancy (nekros = death) and animancy (science of the essence) I think I'm not too far off.

[Juodas Varnas]

The way i see it is basically all Undead are vessels, but not all vessels are Undead, like all pugs are dogs, but not all dogs are pugs.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, thank you for the analogy. That is exactly what I meant.

[Tamerlane]

Vessel is just "thing that has a soul that shouldn't".

[Boeroer]

You could say that in the PoE context, yes.

 

But oops - we're totally drifting away from Madscientist's original post.

[Madscientist]

You could say that in the PoE context, yes.

 

But oops - we're totally drifting away from Madscientist's original post.

 

I am used to it

People create a topic and then everybody discusses something else.

 

Anyway, I like unusual games and I like unusual chars in games. OK, PoE is not PST or MotB, so no floating skulls or bear god here, at least not as party member. The pet was nice.

So I thought an undead party member was one of the better ideas that make sense in this game world.

OK, the devil of Caroc was the most unusual party member in PoE1 but I never used her because she seemed like one of the most uninteresting ones.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The way i see it is basically all Undead are vessels, but not all vessels are Undead, like all pugs are dogs, but not all dogs are pugs.

 

Are there *any* game effects that will hit "undead" but not "vessels" though?  The few lore references to "undead" seem more descriptive than prescriptive, as it were  . . . it's not like D&D where there's a separate "category" of undead and certain things effect undead in specific ways (i.e., a priest's Turn Undead, etc.) In Eora, that "category" is "vessels". 

[Juodas Varnas]

 

The way i see it is basically all Undead are vessels, but not all vessels are Undead, like all pugs are dogs, but not all dogs are pugs.

 

Are there *any* game effects that will hit "undead" but not "vessels" though?  The few lore references to "undead" seem more descriptive than prescriptive, as it were  . . . it's not like D&D where there's a separate "category" of undead and certain things effect undead in specific ways (i.e., a priest's Turn Undead, etc.) In Eora, that "category" is "vessels". 

 

Is there any game effect that affects pugs and not other dogs? 

[Boeroer]

 

The way i see it is basically all Undead are vessels, but not all vessels are Undead, like all pugs are dogs, but not all dogs are pugs.

 

Are there *any* game effects that will hit "undead" but not "vessels" though?  The few lore references to "undead" seem more descriptive than prescriptive, as it were  . . . it's not like D&D where there's a separate "category" of undead and certain things effect undead in specific ways (i.e., a priest's Turn Undead, etc.) In Eora, that "category" is "vessels". 

 

There's also no effect that will apply to Lurkers but not Oozes. Or to Blights but not Shadows - although those are very different types of creatures. All of them are primordial/spirits and thus get hurt equally by Primal Bane/Ghost Hunter for example. So those game mechanics with umbreall terms/creature categories don't really prove anything in this case (in my opionion).

 

Also this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65206-update-73-narrative-design-a-day-in-the-life-companion-goals-and-the-undead/