Weapon proficiency and unarmed attacks

[OrangePulp]

At the moment it seems that unarmed attacks don't count as a proficient weapon, nor is it something you can choose proficiency in. It's understandable that everyone would be proficient in it, but (at least based on the Devoted's passive ability) it doesn't seem to accrue bonuses from (fighter) abilities that work based on weapon proficiency. Seems like a Monk/Devoted Fighter would be a fun build with an increased focus on unarmed attacks, especially with other things like the passives for chance to graze and increased damage, but at the moment that's not really an option. Was this an intentional design decision, or more of an omission due to unarmed not having/requiring a selectable proficiency?

[dam]

To be fair, it doesn't actually make sense that "everyone would be proficient in it".

 

I mean, regular knight who's trained all his life with a greatsword, vs a monk ?

Surely the monk is much more proficient at making unarmed attacks.

 

I agree however that if it isn't a design decision, it should be available as a proficiency.

[TheC]

I was going to mention this as well.

The Monk is a full melee specialist but suffers greatly from using 'unarmed attacks'. Not only does the game need an Unarmed attack proficiency option, it also needs a Model that allows for variations like any other weapon. Monk also needs to build penetration for unarmed attacks more quickly to be on par with other pure melee classes.

Of course, this is all dependent on whether or not Unarmed attack is supposed to be a viable/special option for Monk. As it stands now, it is lacking. You are supposed to be giving up the option for magical weapons (and all the cool/beneficial things that come with it) for fast attacks and decent dmg. But this is wasted if you cannot hit or get through the armor of anything you face.

 

 

 

All said and done though, they would probably need to disallow Devout/Monk multiclass if they do make an 'unarmed' proficiency because it would obviously be extremely OP by completely circumventing the penalty for Devout.

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheC

[Climhazzard]

All said and done though, they would probably need to disallow Devout/Monk multiclass if they do make an 'unarmed' proficiency because it would obviously be extremely OP by completely circumventing the penalty for Devout.

 

 

Not quite following your reasoning here..  the Penalty to devout should be they can only properly use one weapon type, fists would be one weapon type, devout monk shouldn't be anymore OP than any other properly balanced devout combination and honestly with the current penetration system it feels like the only way fist monks would ever be a viable game option.  (though currently there isn't much penalty period for picking Devout and they are not limited to one weapon type)

Edited November 16, 2017 by Climhazzard

[OrangePulp]

To be fair, it doesn't actually make sense that "everyone would be proficient in it".

 

I mean, regular knight who's trained all his life with a greatsword, vs a monk ?

Surely the monk is much more proficient at making unarmed attacks.

 

I agree however that if it isn't a design decision, it should be available as a proficiency.

To be completely pedantic for a moment, the monk is more proficient than the knight, due to transcendent suffering. But yeah, my comment on proficiency probably wasn't very accurate; or at least, the level of proficiency everyone would have in unarmed is the same that everyone has by default for all weapons, which is no penalty, but no specific benefits (or in this system, not actually being 'proficient' in the weapon).

 

Monk does have something at later level which I hadn't considered, which is the buff they can use to get 4 more armor pen (as well as 5 might). However, I still feel like a more pure unarmed focus should be possible as a character concept, and the Devoted fighter is perfect for just that; only thing getting in the way is proficiency. Maybe transcendent suffering could count as unarmed 'proficiency'?