Weapon question

[superior987]

Hi all - I was hoping for some help with weapon math.  I'm playing a cipher at 18/10/10/14/16/10 using white spire, initially intending to use BoEP.  I've been debating switching to bittercut and a small shield and was wondering how bad the dps hit would be given the benefits from little savior or one of the other fancy shields.

 

Second, I'm also debating between stacking might or switching to 18 dex.  Right now, I start with 27 focus, and can silent scream after the first hit lands, or start CCing immediately if necessary.  Unsure if losing the initial punch and boost to healing is worth hitting more and having faster cast times.  Any thoughts would be much appreciated

[dam]

Your stats do seem a little bit unoptimised from where I stand, but then it all depends on what you want to do.

 

 

Now, on to why I think so :

 

1/ MIG > INT

 

You have more might than intelligence.

Some cipher powers are raw debuffs without any damage component (blind, charm, phantom foes, paralyze...) so you're losing out on duration AND not getting any value from your higher might.

 

I would recommend 16 MIG and (at the least) 18 INT.

 

 

2/ 10 DEX

 

While MIG helps you deal more damage so you can generate more focus, DEX helps you deal that damage (and cast spells) faster.

I would dump 3 CON and 3 RES in favour of 15DEX/15PER , 14DEX/16 PER, or 16DEX/14PER.

Either way, dump some of that CON and RES into DEX and/or PER

 

 

You don't want to dump MIG entirely as it helps you overcome enemies' DRs.

[Boeroer]

High MIG can make Veteran's Recovery really good. I take it with almost every melee build. 

 

Since ciphers have awesome CC and thus don't get pummeled & interrupted a lot I nearly always dump RES.

 

Concerning weapon damage:

 

All damage modifiers (except lashes and raw DoT effects like wounding) work like so:

 

weapon base damage * (1 + dmg_mod1 + dmg_mod2) = damage.

 

For example an estoc (base damage: 14-20 = avg 17) with Soul Whip, Biting Whip and Savage Attack will deal:

 

17 * (1+ 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 17 + 17*0.2 + 17*0.2 + 17*0.2 = 17 + 3,4 + 3,4 + 3,4 = 27,2 (+5 DR bypass)

 

a sabre (11-16, avg 13,5) would do:

 

13,5 + 2,7 + 2,7 + 2,7 +2,7 (sharp) =  24,3

 

Weapon base damage is the damage range of  weapon without any enchantment, without MIG bonus and so on. So, a superb estoc has the same base damage as a normal one.

 

So, the higher the base damage, the higher the bonus damage you will get from things like Savage Attack, Soul Whip and so on. You can see that the more dmg mods you can add (MIG, exceptional or superb and so on...), the more the weapon with the lower base damage falls behind. But in the case above it's not much of a difference.

 

(Some summoned weapons have a lot higher base damage than normals weapons. For example Firebrand's base damage is much higher than that of a normal great sword. Therefore all damage mods work really well with it. A cipher with Soul Whip + Biting Whip + Savage Attack who crits with Firebrand - it also has +0.5 crit damage modifier - will deal a lot of damage and thus get a lot of focus. Actually Firebrand is one of my favorite cipher melee weapons until I can get durgan steel).

 

The heavier one handed weapons (like sabres and so on) have the same attack speed and recovery as the two handed weapons. That means that a sabre with shield will attack as fast as an estoc.

 

Now Bittercut has two damage types (corrode/slash) which in itself is a huge advantage over an estoc. But in addition to that it also profits from Spirit of Decay which will add another +2,7 damage and will also boost a corrosive lash from 25% to 30%. This is nice and makes Bittercuts one of the best one handed dps weapons, but an estoc with a lot of damage mods will still deal more damage per hit (if the target is not resistant to pierce damage). But Bittercut is about to close the gap.

 

Now with a durganized shield you can even attack faster with Bittercut than with a durganized estoc. But the Blade of the Endless Paths has speed, too. So your favorite estoc BotEP will still deal more dps compared to Bittercut + shield. Not THAT much more, but still. But with Bittercut + Little Saviour you'll have a lot better defenses of course - and the advantage of two damage types (never underestimate this in PotD if you don't want to switch weapons).

Edited June 22, 2017 by Boeroer

[superior987]

Thanks for the help! I haven't tried potd yet, pretty much entirely because I can't bring myself to dump stats - my inner RPer won't stand for it, although at this point (lvl 9, later act 2) hard is pretty easy if I pay attention. I may have to bite the bullet and just respec a couple times to try and get a feel for might, dex, or a blend of the two.

 

How does the DR benefit of corrode/slash match up with the estoc DR bypass? Is it basically a wash or is dual damage type a bigger benefit than I'm giving credit, putting aside for a second the fact that spirit of decay also boosts my lash and antipathic field?

[dam]

The heavier one handed weapons (like sabres and so on) have the same attack speed and recovery as the two handed weapons. That means that a sabre with shield will attack as fast as an estoc.

 

Are you absolutely sure about that one ?

 

Because 2-handed weapons show as Slow here, while Sabres show as Average.

 

 

 

Thanks for the input on damage calculation, that's handy.

[Boeroer]

Yes, I'm 100% sure. If it would be possible I'd say 200%.

 

The game says "slow" and "average", but actually both need the same amount of frames for attack animation and also recovery. Heavy one handed melee weapons (mace, war hammer, sword, sabre, battle axe and so on) are as fast (or slow) as two handed melee weapons (great sword, estoc, quarterstaff, pike and so on).

 

Hunting Bows are also labeled "fast" - but they are a lot slower than "fast" melee weapons (dagger, rapier, clubs and so on). So don't put too much trust into the game descriptions.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Boeroer

[JFutral]

Yes, I'm 100% sure. If it would be possible I'd say 200%.

 

The game says "slow" and "average", but actually both need the same amount of frames for attack animation and also recovery. Heavy one handed melee weapons (mace, war hammer, sword, sabre, battle axe and so on) are as fast (or slow) as two handed melee weapons (great sword, estoc, quarterstaff, pike and so on).

 

Hunting Bows are also labeled "fast" - but they are a lot slower than "fast" melee weapons (dagger, rapier, clubs and so on). So don't put too much trust into the game descriptions.

Well, that's unfortunate.

 

Joe