Ranged Paladin?

[MortyTheGobbo]

I've started a new game as a Kind Wayfarer paladin. So far so good, but I'm still undecided about her weapon choice. I'll either go for dual-wielding (sabre/stiletto, most likely) or a war bow. And it's the second part I'm having some trouble with. Nothing stops me from doing that - the lack of weapon restrictions for classes is one of Pillars' greatest strengths. But paladins kind of default to melee, as do their recommendations.

 

So, how do I build a paladin for ranged combat/support? I'm guessing she doesn't need Resolve that much, although I'm not sure why paladins have it recommended so much. Do I increase Dexterity, Perception and Intellect and focus on passive buffs while plugging away with the bow?

[Boeroer]

For Flames of Devotion (and also Runner's Wounding Shot) you want a weapon with very high damage per hit - like an arquebus or arbalest for example. It's a waste to use FoD with a war bow in my opinion. And FoD (and Runner's Wounding Shot) is everything a ranged paladin can bring to the table when it comes do damage (except maybe Zealous Focus).

 

If you max DEX and take Gunner and don't wear thick armor then recovery + reloading an arbalest doesn't take too long and it works well with FoD. A unique arbalest with speed comes very early (Hold-Wall, smith in Gilded Vale).

Arbalests cause prone on crit - and with Sworn Enemy, Zealous Focus and FoD you will crit (most of the time). It's very nice in the early game and keeps being nice later on when you find Aedrin's Wrecker. You can also use arquebuses since they are in the same weapon group. Pliambo per Casitas has Marking which will stack with paladin's Coordinated Attacks - which will give an ally +20 stackable accuracy.

 

Kill-shots are easy with an arbalest/arquebus in order to trigger Strange Mercy.

 

So, for me no war bows on a paladin. Except if you want to skip FoD or if you want to use weapon switching. Another exception would be Sabra Marie since it's annihilating - that would do proper damage with a crit + FoD or Runner's Wounding Shot if you also add Doemenel's Merciless Hand, Dungeon Delver and Azalin's Helmet (= +150% base damage on crit + target gets confused).

 

About stats: I'd dump CON and RES, max out MIG, DEX and PER, rest is INT.

 

Abilities and talents would be Zealous Focus, Sworn Enemy, Flames of Devotion, Intense Flames, Inspiring Triumph, Sword & Shepherd, Strange Mercy, Coordinated Attacks, Abjuration (can trigger Strange Mercy with one click), Scion of Flame, WF Soldier, Gunner, Marksman, Runner's Wounding Shot, Lay on Hands, Sacred Immolation.

 

You could also think about Envenomed Strike. It's nice with good MIG and INT and the paladin doesn't have any other special attacks. Don't know if it fits a Kind Wayfarer though.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

Hm, interesting. Normally I'd be willing to use an arbalest or arquebus, but I've just finished a run where I used a crossbow. So it might be repetitive. So it's either making a war bow work, or back to the melee plan. Particularly since I'd like to play a high-Res character this time, to make all those checks. My first character had it around 14, and my second one ignored it.

 

I don't see Envenomed Strike as any less becoming of a Kind Wayfarer than shooting bad guys with a bow. So if it's a way to make a war bow work, I could consider it.

Edited April 13, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[Livegood118]

It's just a symptom of the Paladin class and their general lack of physical damage enhancing abilities (Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy being the only ones) that a War Bow won't really be effective. Compare a Paladin to a ranger with twin shots for example then add in the pet damage, and well, the Paladin just won't compare at all in terms of damage (I'd say a fully specced out ranger would do 4x-5x times the damage of a Paladin on autoattacks at range incl. Pet).

 

Most of the Paladin's abilities are geared towards being close to the centre of the action and being able to take hits – Faith and Conviction, Sacred Immolation, Fast Exhortations, Heals, Coordinated Attacks, Auras etc ...

 

If you want your Paladin to do more you have to look to other ways of giving the Paladin's abilities:

 

– Talents (Envenomed Strike, Wounding Shot, Prestidigitator's Missiles)

– More Weapon Slots (Arms Dealer, Armed to the Teeth (Aumaua), Quickswitch, Coil of Resourcefulness)

– Spells from Items (Munacra Arret, Spirit Spiral, Flames of Fair Rhian, Cloak of Missiles etc ...)

– Scrolls (Bounding Missiles, Missile Barrage etc ...)

[Boeroer]

As I said: I can see FoD working ok-ish with Sabra Marie. And that bow would fit a paladin with Munacra Arret and Ring of Changing Heart (look at Counselor Ploi build). Maybe also add Enigma's Charm. A charming and confusing paladin can be very useful. And with Sabra Marie you wouldn't need so many per rest uses of Munacra Arret to mind control enemies.

 

Before that I can see that Borresaine could be useful with Zealous Focus + Sworn Enemy + FoD (+41 accuracy). Not because of the damage, but to guarantee an initial stun. If you're shooting fast enough (maybe take Outlander's Frenzy) the next arrow will stun as well without FoD - deflection will be gimped by 30 because of the stun.

 

So, with Sworn Enemy + FoD you could ensure stunlocking a single enemy and do bonus damage. 

 

Could be cool. This can disable dangerous guys pretty quickly without using per rest resources. And you will have that quite early in the game, too.

 

I would try it...

Edited April 13, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

It's just a symptom of the Paladin class and their general lack of physical damage enhancing abilities (Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy being the only ones) that a War Bow won't really be effective. Compare a Paladin to a ranger with twin shots for example then add in the pet damage, and well, the Paladin just won't compare at all in terms of damage (I'd say a fully specced out ranger would do 4x-5x times the damage of a Paladin on autoattacks at range incl. Pet).

 

Most of the Paladin's abilities are geared towards being close to the centre of the action and being able to take hits – Faith and Conviction, Sacred Immolation, Fast Exhortations, Heals, Coordinated Attacks, Auras etc ...

 

If you want your Paladin to do more you have to look to other ways of giving the Paladin's abilities:

 

– Talents (Envenomed Strike, Wounding Shot, Prestidigitator's Missiles)

– More Weapon Slots (Arms Dealer, Armed to the Teeth (Aumaua), Quickswitch, Coil of Resourcefulness)

– Spells from Items (Munacra Arret, Spirit Spiral, Flames of Fair Rhian, Cloak of Missiles etc ...)

– Scrolls (Bounding Missiles, Missile Barrage etc ...)

 

Yeah, the idea of paladins is certainly a lead from the front knightly sort. But I've always liked playing against archetypes. And Pillars is more permissive about it than most computer RPGs.

 

As I said: I can see FoD working ok-ish with Sabra Marie. And that bow would fit a paladin with Munacra Arret and Ring of Changing Heart (look at Counselor Ploi build). Maybe also add Enigma's Charm. A charming and confusing paladin can be very useful. And with Sabra Marie you wouldn't need so many per rest uses of Munacra Arret to mind control enemies.

 

Before that I can see that Borresaine could be useful with Zealous Focus + Sworn Enemy + FoD (+41 accuracy). Not because of the damage, but to guarantee an initial stun. If you're shooting fast enough (maybe take Outlander's Frenzy) the next arrow will stun as well without FoD - deflection will be gimped by 30 because of the stun.

 

So, with Sworn Enemy + FoD you could ensure stunlocking a single enemy and do bonus damage. 

 

Could be cool. This can disable dangerous guys pretty quickly without using per rest resources. And you will have that quite early in the game, too.

 

I would try it...

 

Well, it's not like I play on Path of the Damned, or anything. As long as I can buff my team while stunning and possibly poisoning bad guys, I should be fine. I'll enact the plan the next time I can respec my paladin (I just reached Caed Nua with her).

 

I am so glad they introduced respeccing eventually. Makes such dilemmas that much easier.

[MasterCipher]

This "Laser Pointer" build compliments a Paladin's unique stacking buffs and single target accuracy with a ranged marking weapon and attributes, talents, and gear that deals decent, consistent DPS, but more importantly, is capable of giving your primary status afflictioner or damage dealer +36 accuracy.

 

Darcozzi

Dwarf, Boreal

 

MIG 21

DEX 17

CON 4

INT 18

PER 15

RES 3

 

Flames of Devotion

accurate aura

Liberating Exhortation

Coordinating Attacks

Sworn Enemy

Inspiring Triumph

Sacred Immolation

Abjuration

 

Outlander's Frenzy

crit aura

Inspiring Exhortation

Penetrating Shot

wilder bane

Scion of Flame

Dangerous Implement

 

Marking Wand/Silver Flash

Robe, durganized with 2 INT

4 MIG unbending helm

3 PER 1 stealth aura neck

5 acc gloves/firebrand

1 DEX quick switch belt

bartender ring for 20% damage vs spirits and vessels

overseer ring/dominate ring

stalking boots

[MortyTheGobbo]

I've already said I'd rather not use a slow-firing weapon for this. I'm also not fond of dumping stats, even if I have no real need of them,

[MasterCipher]

War Bow which you mention in your OP, is 125 frames unbuffed compared to wand's 85 frames (30 frames = 1 second). The primary weapon, wand, is tied with hunting bow as the fastest ranged weapon (I'm not counting Boerer's crazy fists). 

[MortyTheGobbo]

Right, but it still uses the pistol, doesn't it? Besides, if I'm going ranged, it's with a bow. Even if it's not as optimal as it could be. Like I said, I'm not going to play on high difficulty, so I just want something that'll synergize decently.

[MasterCipher]

Just because war bow is not the fastest doesn't mean it isn't good. War bows have max range and hit the hardest of ranged weapons that don't require reloading. Reloading takes so long it causes sustained DPS to plummet.  

[MortyTheGobbo]

Well, I've gone ahead and respecialized. My stats are:

 

MIG 16

CON 8

DEX 15

PER 16

INT 14

RES 9

 

Res was supposed to be 8, but it seems the respec panel didn't take the bonus from Aedyr into account.

 

At level 5, my abilities are Flames of Devotion, Sworn Enemy and Zealous Focus. Talents are Intense Flames and Critical Focus.

 

I figure I'll take Weapon Focus or Envenomed Strike when I hit level 6.

Edited April 15, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[Livegood118]

Well, I've gone ahead and respecialized. My stats are:

 

MIG 16

CON 8

DEX 15

PER 16

INT 14

RES 9

 

Res was supposed to be 8, but it seems the respec panel didn't take the bonus from Aedyr into account.

 

At level 5, my abilities are Flames of Devotion, Sworn Enemy and Zealous Focus. Talents are Intense Flames and Critical Focus.

 

I figure I'll take Weapon Focus or Envenomed Strike when I hit level 6.

 

 

You should consider picking up Borresaine (Warbow) from Copperlane for its nice stun on crit procs or Persistence (Hunting Bow) from level 4 of the endless paths  for very good DPS because of the wounding lash to tide you over until you eventually get Sabra Maria around level 13-14. Both are very strong early game bows – the Wiki says Borresaine has Draining Enchant but I could swear it had speed the last time I checked ...

[Boeroer]

Speed is on Rain of Godagh Field, not Borresaine. Borresaine has draining instead. I mean last time I looked at those.

 

Persistence is a great bow, maybe the best when it comes to DPS when you have high MIG, but it's better with low INT and a paladin usually has high(ish) INT. Borresaine's stun however profits from high INT, so I'd say it's the better choice for this special kind of paladin - especially with FoD since that favours damage per hit and not damage per second and the +20 ACC from FoD is great to trigger the stun.

 

@MortyTheGobbo: Of course it's your decision, but I would not take Critical Focus but something else instead. 5% is awfully low for a talent point, especially early in the game where one tends to graze a lot. It's better later in the game when it's mostly about hit or crit - but even then there are better talents to spare your points on. I don't take into account that the hit-to-crit conversion also works in an AoE (aura) though. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Boeroer

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

You should consider picking up Borresaine (Warbow) from Copperlane for its nice stun on crit procs or Persistence (Hunting Bow) from level 4 of the endless paths  for very good DPS because of the wounding lash to tide you over until you eventually get Sabra Maria around level 13-14. Both are very strong early game bows – the Wiki says Borresaine has Draining Enchant but I could swear it had speed the last time I checked ...

 

 

Borresaine is the plan, yes. It was suggested in this very thread. Persistence will go to Sagani, as usual.

 

Speed is on Rain of Godagh Field, not Borresaine. Borresaine has draining instead. I mean last time I looked at those.

 

Persistence is a great bow, maybe the best when it comes to DPS when you have high MIG, but it's better with low INT and a paladin usually has high(ish) INT. Borresaine's stun however profits from high INT, so I'd say it's the better choice for this special kind of paladin - especially with FoD since that favours damage per hit and not damage per second and the +20 ACC from FoD is great to trigger the stun.

 

@MortyTheGobbo: Of course it's your decision, but I would not take Critical Focus but something else instead. 5% is awfully low for a talent point, especially early in the game where one tends to graze a lot. It's better later in the game when it's mostly about hit or crit - but even then there are better talents to spare your points on. I don't take into account that the hit-to-crit conversion also works in an AoE (aura) though. 

 

Yeah, that talent didn't look very impressive. I guess I can respec again. I'm saving up for Borresaine, but I should hit the point where enemies start dropping Fine equipment left and right soon.