stat balancing and min/max prevention suggestions.

[Pharaun159]

No i dont think that every character needs 18int, though i do think that int built incorrectly. Thats why i leaning towards class specific bonuses. Why the hell is a barbarian damage radius with a sword effected by his intelligence? Same goes for paladins and monks. Just doesn't make any sense. Barbarians radius for carnage, should just go off the static weapon length. Paladins and monks radius of abilities should be based off their resolve. For wizards, cyphers, chanters and druids. The system is largely ok. But what if resolve or perception effected a druids wildstrike crit potential. Or perception gave cyphers a higher starting focus. Things like that make glass cannon builds even less desirable, but still possible. And yet, still reward players for creativity in their builds. Also fits from an rpg side. Right now it feels like a tactical strategy game with a story beaten around it. Which is what its predecessors most certainly where not. Icewindale was more akin to this. Balance was probably one of the best of the games. Baldurs had a freakin phenomenal story, though game mechanics where horribly lopsided in favor of casters. Pillers feels like a buggy Icewindale with a spotty application of story and lore. Some areas they did amazing job. Others like the lore of game mechanics... Make little sense. Just my oponion however.

[Ymarsakar]

As I mentioned before, if you want to role play out the mechanics, what you should be going for is adventure text games inside Pillars, not changing the fundamental stat balances.

 

"Why the hell is a barbarian damage radius with a sword effected by his intelligence?"

 

Because intelligence would become a dump stat otherwise for melee characters if it had no effect on their abilities at all, as mentioned before.

 

"Right now it feels like a tactical strategy game with a story beaten around it."

 

That's what it was pitched as, due to BG2 and PST and Icewind Dale. PST was heavy into dialogue role playing and some stat role playing as well. Icewind dale was more combat focused. BG2 was somewhere in the middle. Even though the DnD stat system was kind of not so good for computers.

 

"Balance was probably one of the best of the games."

 

Your definition of "balance" is very different than the process this game went through, I can guess at that. It is impossible to get 100% role play and also 100% stat specialization for combat, because role play that relies entirely on numbers... isn't role playing. It's closer to dice gambling games, chance games, or just combat simulators using war game formulas.

 

For example, in the Banner Saga, there is the turn based combat system and then there's the role playing as a caravan master keeping people alive. In Shadowrun, there's role play via how to resolve quests and how to deal with npcs/companions, vs automatic healing at end of turn. Trying to "balance" the role play system by making it attached to the healing system would break both sides of the equation.

 

For most people's idea of "role playing" is Diablo I and Diablo II, where RPG means Action RPG and it's all about the numbers. It has nothing to do with whether the stats make sense or not, if it is just about a number cruncher simulating a fight.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Pharaun159]

I wouldnt even begin to consider diablo as much of a roleplaying game. I couldnt even gag my way through the 3rd game. Made it an hour and never touched it again. Wanted to kill it with fire. Pillars has some great elements for a great rpg world, and many elements in the game show a desire for this. Im not suggesting to turn a tactical game into a solely rpg. Im suggesting balancing ideas to get the two to merge better. Sure my suggestion would let intelligence become a dump stat. But if you had intelligence effect how your character handles conversation, or at the very least how npcs treat your character.. I mean would you really want to play through the game when everyone treats your character like he's too dumn to kniw how to wipe his ass? If you dont care, then fine... Minmax away. But if you do, then theres is just a more immersive story for you.

[Remix]

The game you are looking for is arcanum.

[Merina]

As for might they say in the description it's not only physical but spiritual strength so you could have a mage with 18-20 might nothing wrong with that,

 

Nothing wrong with that? Might as a single attribute controls physical strength and spiritual strength at once. A mage with 18-20 might is also very strong and can act like that with regard to heavy items and scripted interactions ... e.g. lift a log of wood. That's not a good concept.

[Remix]

Or wasteland 2 for that matter. Where the charisma stat is independent of the speech skills.

[KDubya]

 

As for might they say in the description it's not only physical but spiritual strength so you could have a mage with 18-20 might nothing wrong with that,

 

Nothing wrong with that? Might as a single attribute controls physical strength and spiritual strength at once. A mage with 18-20 might is also very strong and can act like that with regard to heavy items and scripted interactions ... e.g. lift a log of wood. That's not a good concept.

 

 

 

Would it make you happier if they replaced Might with Spiritual Strength for powers and Physical Strength for weapons? As long as they did not add more than 3 stat points you could then min or max the two as you want without getting extra free points. Would be bad for Ciphers but it'd make everyone happy who can't handle a combined spirit and physical stat.

[rheingold]

Overall I think obs have done a good job, but yeah there are some issues. Might on a caster makes sense as long as the caster is well, casting. Spiritual power and all. It makes no sense, particularly from a role playing angle once the caster picks up a sword. I've said before, all obs have to do is move some casting effects to resolve. So int would impact damage and resolve area of effect and healing, or something like that.... The state dumping would be no worse than now, casters would just switch might for resolve. And it would make far more sense. The same for barbarians carnage. Obs just need to relook some of the state bonuses and effects again. Except this time they could attempt to make some sense of it.

[rheingold]

Oops double post

Edited October 17, 2015 by rheingold

[Ymarsakar]

Fantasy mages generally aren't known to be strong. Real life magicians tend to need a certain amount of physical ability, however.

 

Escape artists. That doesn't even get into the chi gong as practiced in the Far East.