The White March ? How about The White Spoof !

[dam]

Ok this is getting on my nerves more and more as the story progresses.

 

Obsidian, don't you think you've pushed this a bit too far ?

 

 

80% of the story seems to just be a cheap rip-off from the Neverwinter saga !

[x] ancient dwarven homeland : Battery vs Gauntlgrym

[x] the door bro, the door : both magnificent, 10 times taller than the inhabitants themselves, works of art

[x] only dwarves may enter : ancient builder vs Delzoun Dwarves

[x] just sing your way in : Cantec vs Bruenor using Delzoun songs

[x] spirits inhabit the place : very likely true in TWM, true indeed in Gauntlgrym

[x] houses an absolutely OP forge that everyone wants : white forge vs primordial-powered forge of Gauntlgrym

 

Oh and while we're at it :

[x] unto death itself : Galvino raising constructs vs Szass Tam's death ring

[x] unto death itself revengeance : new monster lich vs Valindra / Szass Tam

 

I'm likely 1/3 into the expansion and this very much looks like a blatant rip-off.

Devs read the Neverwinter saga, run out of imagination, decide to take some inspiration here and there ?

 

 

This is a huge, blatant spoof and I'm surprised the devs haven't faced an IP lawsuit yet.

 

If I'd wanted to enjoy spoofed works, I'd have watched Pocahontas, then James Cameron's (bwahaha) Avatar.

 

 

While I like the new level cap and abilities, I am disappointed by the story being really just a rip.

I anticipate a good many people telling me to f off ; doesn't change the fact that this is a copycat story.

 

[Infinitron]

People read Forgotten Realms novels?

[Doppelschwert]

I've actually read these books and haven't thought about them a single time while playing through the white march.

 

A storyline involving a dwarven fortress and something related to smithery doesn't strike me as so ingenious that you should attribute it to salvatore. That's such a common fantasy trope that you might as well complain that both stories feature dwarves, elves and magic.

 

There are so many written fantasy stories out there, no matter what you will do it has probably been done before somewhere.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Doppelschwert

[Oralaina]

Ok this is getting on my nerves more and more as the story progresses.

 

Obsidian, don't you think you've pushed this a bit too far ?

 

 

80% of the story seems to just be a cheap rip-off from the Neverwinter saga !

[x] ancient dwarven homeland : Battery vs Gauntlgrym

[x] the door bro, the door : both magnificent, 10 times taller than the inhabitants themselves, works of art

[x] only dwarves may enter : ancient builder vs Delzoun Dwarves

[x] just sing your way in : Cantec vs Bruenor using Delzoun songs

[x] spirits inhabit the place : very likely true in TWM, true indeed in Gauntlgrym

[x] houses an absolutely OP forge that everyone wants : white forge vs primordial-powered forge of Gauntlgrym

 

Oh and while we're at it :

[x] unto death itself : Galvino raising constructs vs Szass Tam's death ring

[x] unto death itself revengeance : new monster lich vs Valindra / Szass Tam

 

I'm likely 1/3 into the expansion and this very much looks like a blatant rip-off.

Devs read the Neverwinter saga, run out of imagination, decide to take some inspiration here and there ?

 

 

This is a huge, blatant spoof and I'm surprised the devs haven't faced an IP lawsuit yet.

 

If I'd wanted to enjoy spoofed works, I'd have watched Pocahontas, then James Cameron's (bwahaha) Avatar.

 

 

While I like the new level cap and abilities, I am disappointed by the story being really just a rip.

I anticipate a good many people telling me to f off ; doesn't change the fact that this is a copycat story.

 

And Salvatore didn't spoof Tolkien?  You know, Moria and the huge doors scribed in ithildin....  I'm not going through your bullet points - but really, Tolkien was there first in THAT century - of course, even he used long-known tropes.

[rheingold]

People read Forgotten Realms novels?

This x1000.

If people want well written stories they really need to avoid any d&d novels. Most of them (and I'm being charitable here) are rubbish. If you want great writing stick to great writers - it helps.

And yes, just about everything has been done before. Tolkein himself copied freely from people who came before him.

So hammering Obs for a lack of originality as opposed to some hack who wrote a few d&d novels is odd.

Sorry when it comes to most fantasy literature, I tend to be a cynic - even more than usual.

[dam]

 

People read Forgotten Realms novels?

This x1000.

If people want well written stories they really need to avoid any d&d novels. Most of them (and I'm being charitable here) are rubbish. If you want great writing stick to great writers - it helps.

And yes, just about everything has been done before. Tolkein himself copied freely from people who came before him.

So hammering Obs for a lack of originality as opposed to some hack who wrote a few d&d novels is odd.

Sorry when it comes to most fantasy literature, I tend to be a cynic - even more than usual.

 

 

First of all, I fail to see what the author's skill or lack thereof has to do with anything, here.

This is, at best, a meager attempt at belittling the blatant spoof, because "DND stories suck so it's ok amirite ?".

 

Second, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the original story was just that, original.

[dam]

 

Ok this is getting on my nerves more and more as the story progresses.

 

Obsidian, don't you think you've pushed this a bit too far ?

 

 

80% of the story seems to just be a cheap rip-off from the Neverwinter saga !

[x] ancient dwarven homeland : Battery vs Gauntlgrym

[x] the door bro, the door : both magnificent, 10 times taller than the inhabitants themselves, works of art

[x] only dwarves may enter : ancient builder vs Delzoun Dwarves

[x] just sing your way in : Cantec vs Bruenor using Delzoun songs

[x] spirits inhabit the place : very likely true in TWM, true indeed in Gauntlgrym

[x] houses an absolutely OP forge that everyone wants : white forge vs primordial-powered forge of Gauntlgrym

 

Oh and while we're at it :

[x] unto death itself : Galvino raising constructs vs Szass Tam's death ring

[x] unto death itself revengeance : new monster lich vs Valindra / Szass Tam

 

I'm likely 1/3 into the expansion and this very much looks like a blatant rip-off.

Devs read the Neverwinter saga, run out of imagination, decide to take some inspiration here and there ?

 

 

This is a huge, blatant spoof and I'm surprised the devs haven't faced an IP lawsuit yet.

 

If I'd wanted to enjoy spoofed works, I'd have watched Pocahontas, then James Cameron's (bwahaha) Avatar.

 

 

While I like the new level cap and abilities, I am disappointed by the story being really just a rip.

I anticipate a good many people telling me to f off ; doesn't change the fact that this is a copycat story.

 

And Salvatore didn't spoof Tolkien?  You know, Moria and the huge doors scribed in ithildin....  I'm not going through your bullet points - but really, Tolkien was there first in THAT century - of course, even he used long-known tropes.

 

 

 

Let's have a fun little exercise in math :

[x] dwarven subterranean complex

[x] requires some kind of whadafck to open

 

That's 2 spoofs with regards to tolkien vs salvatore.

 

 

Now back to our TWF vs Gauntlgrym bit, I refer you to my original post and the number of bullet points.

 

 

 

And no, not everybody spoofs.

 

As per my previous post, I believe the original story was indeed original, not some copycat.

I very much liked the original campaign, I have more reservations about this one, in part due to the fact that I'm under the impression I'm reading the whole Neverwinter tetralogy again.

[dam]

I've actually read these books and haven't thought about them a single time while playing through the white march.

 

A storyline involving a dwarven fortress and something related to smithery doesn't strike me as so ingenious that you should attribute it to salvatore. That's such a common fantasy trope that you might as well complain that both stories feature dwarves, elves and magic.

 

There are so many written fantasy stories out there, no matter what you will do it has probably been done before somewhere.

 

While I somewhat agree with your point, I find the number of similarities to be a bit too much.

Copy a thing here or there, that works.

Copy/paste the whole thing and people are going to notice.

 

Hell the only thing that's lacking from TWF is dark elves invading the place -.-

For now...

[Varana]

Really, ever since Moria, bullet points 1 through 4 (well, maybe not singing, but saying stuff) this is just how ancient Dwarven fortresses are. They're not separate items, these are the vital ingredients in any Dwarven fortress that wants to be taken seriously. Together with the ever present Dwarven addiction to digging too deep.

[FlintlockJazz]

Really, ever since Moria, bullet points 1 through 4 (well, maybe not singing, but saying stuff) this is just how ancient Dwarven fortresses are. They're not separate items, these are the vital ingredients in any Dwarven fortress that wants to be taken seriously. Together with the ever present Dwarven addiction to digging too deep.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0

[Oralaina]

 

Really, ever since Moria, bullet points 1 through 4 (well, maybe not singing, but saying stuff) this is just how ancient Dwarven fortresses are. They're not separate items, these are the vital ingredients in any Dwarven fortress that wants to be taken seriously. Together with the ever present Dwarven addiction to digging too deep.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0

 

 

Okay, THAT was funny!  Thanks for posting it!

[Heijoushin]

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

Really, ever since Moria, bullet points 1 through 4 (well, maybe not singing, but saying stuff) this is just how ancient Dwarven fortresses are. They're not separate items, these are the vital ingredients in any Dwarven fortress that wants to be taken seriously. Together with the ever present Dwarven addiction to digging too deep.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0

 

 

Okay, THAT was funny!  Thanks for posting it!

 

I live to serve!  Plus it just seemed appropriate.

[dam]

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

 

Ah that's my problem here, how they pulled it off.

It feels, I don't know, cliché.

Not to mention the quests do not show overmuch originality (although if we're going to be honest, all your basic quests will always be kill/escort/deliver timesinks).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played Torment, Kingdoms of Amalur and Divinity Original Sin, all of which have a soul-based storyline, and I still believe PoE's vanilla story is 100% original.

I'm sad that the expansion's isn't.

 

 

Oh and by the way, on the topic of clichés and tropes.

 

I believe Dragon Age Origins did an absolutely magnificent job at avoiding them.

Yes you do have your classical dwarves and elves, but are they different than what you usually expect !

Shame they ruined the franchise with DA2 and DA3 I guess.

[jsaving]

I agree that there are some similarities between White March and the Neverwinter series.  There are also some similarities between the PoE universe and Realms history, such as the deity of renewal getting his hat handed to him while trying to reshape the world (Lathander's Dawn Cataclysm in the Forgotten Realms, Waidwen's military offensive in Pillars of Eternity).  But it would go too far to say that "all" or "most" of the core game or the White March was cribbed from D&D.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

 

Ah that's my problem here, how they pulled it off.

It feels, I don't know, cliché.

Not to mention the quests do not show overmuch originality (although if we're going to be honest, all your basic quests will always be kill/escort/deliver timesinks).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played Torment, Kingdoms of Amalur and Divinity Original Sin, all of which have a soul-based storyline, and I still believe PoE's vanilla story is 100% original.

I'm sad that the expansion's isn't.

 

 

Oh and by the way, on the topic of clichés and tropes.

 

I believe Dragon Age Origins did an absolutely magnificent job at avoiding them.

Yes you do have your classical dwarves and elves, but are they different than what you usually expect !

Shame they ruined the franchise with DA2 and DA3 I guess.

 

Dragon Age Origins is Trope Central!  The few things that aren't were stolen from somewhere else (elves being treated as scum being stolen wholesale from The Witcher books and game, Grey Wardens were a dumb version of the Night's Watch from A Song of Ice and Fire...)

[rheingold]

 

 

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

 

Ah that's my problem here, how they pulled it off.

It feels, I don't know, cliché.

Not to mention the quests do not show overmuch originality (although if we're going to be honest, all your basic quests will always be kill/escort/deliver timesinks).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played Torment, Kingdoms of Amalur and Divinity Original Sin, all of which have a soul-based storyline, and I still believe PoE's vanilla story is 100% original.

I'm sad that the expansion's isn't.

 

 

Oh and by the way, on the topic of clichés and tropes.

 

I believe Dragon Age Origins did an absolutely magnificent job at avoiding them.

Yes you do have your classical dwarves and elves, but are they different than what you usually expect !

Shame they ruined the franchise with DA2 and DA3 I guess.

 

Dragon Age Origins is Trope Central!  The few things that aren't were stolen from somewhere else (elves being treated as scum being stolen wholesale from The Witcher books and game, Grey Wardens were a dumb version of the Night's Watch from A Song of Ice and Fire...)

 

To be honest there is not a huge amount of original writing around. Neither  Martin or Sapkowski are original either - they also copied  freely from those who came before them.

[Heijoushin]

 

 

 

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

 

Ah that's my problem here, how they pulled it off.

It feels, I don't know, cliché.

Not to mention the quests do not show overmuch originality (although if we're going to be honest, all your basic quests will always be kill/escort/deliver timesinks).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played Torment, Kingdoms of Amalur and Divinity Original Sin, all of which have a soul-based storyline, and I still believe PoE's vanilla story is 100% original.

I'm sad that the expansion's isn't.

 

 

Oh and by the way, on the topic of clichés and tropes.

 

I believe Dragon Age Origins did an absolutely magnificent job at avoiding them.

Yes you do have your classical dwarves and elves, but are they different than what you usually expect !

Shame they ruined the franchise with DA2 and DA3 I guess.

 

Dragon Age Origins is Trope Central!  The few things that aren't were stolen from somewhere else (elves being treated as scum being stolen wholesale from The Witcher books and game, Grey Wardens were a dumb version of the Night's Watch from A Song of Ice and Fire...)

 

To be honest there is not a huge amount of original writing around. Neither  Martin or Sapkowski are original either - they also copied  freely from those who came before them.

 

 

Well, you know what they say: "Great artists steal" and all that. I wouldn't look down on these gents because they took a little bit from here and there...

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

I don't know bro. When you really really sit down and think about fantasy, it's not a genre that brims with originality. Ancient Dwarven strongholds have been around since Lord of the Rings after all. At least they worked the watcher angle in, which was cool. 

 

It's impossible to avoid all tropes. What matters is how you pull them off. 

 

Ah that's my problem here, how they pulled it off.

It feels, I don't know, cliché.

Not to mention the quests do not show overmuch originality (although if we're going to be honest, all your basic quests will always be kill/escort/deliver timesinks).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played Torment, Kingdoms of Amalur and Divinity Original Sin, all of which have a soul-based storyline, and I still believe PoE's vanilla story is 100% original.

I'm sad that the expansion's isn't.

 

 

Oh and by the way, on the topic of clichés and tropes.

 

I believe Dragon Age Origins did an absolutely magnificent job at avoiding them.

Yes you do have your classical dwarves and elves, but are they different than what you usually expect !

Shame they ruined the franchise with DA2 and DA3 I guess.

 

Dragon Age Origins is Trope Central!  The few things that aren't were stolen from somewhere else (elves being treated as scum being stolen wholesale from The Witcher books and game, Grey Wardens were a dumb version of the Night's Watch from A Song of Ice and Fire...)

 

To be honest there is not a huge amount of original writing around. Neither  Martin or Sapkowski are original either - they also copied  freely from those who came before them.

 

Oh I'm not saying they were, I'm just pointing out that DA Origins by no means avoided tropes or stealing ideas wholesale.  Ironically, the Dragon Age game that most tried to break away from tropes and formulaic storyline of Bioware was Dragon Age 2... (at least in storyline department).

Edited September 17, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[rheingold]

Yeah, I think it's important to differentiate between the hacks and the genuinely talented writers. I really don't have a problem with Martin - I personally don't like his books but he is a good writer. Sapkowski I have not been impressed with - maybe I am being unfair - it could be a bad english translation. But the writing style is not so much a problem, rather his plotting and narrative that's not great. Good writers are derivative but they tend to do something more with their books, you get the impression you are not just reading the same stories over and over.

The worst offenders I have read happen to be Terry Brooks and some of the D&D books. Brook's "Sword of Shannara" was hideous, and I have never understood how Tolkien's estate didn't sue him.

My original point is just that I am somewhat amused that the OP accuses Obs of plagiarism by using as examples, books which are not any way original.

That's all.