Fixing skills

[sniggy]

They can do that sort of crap in the movies and in the d20 System game so it stands to reason for them to do so in the CRPG. Skills are useless since we have no choice but play a force user.

well, in d20 even a jedi master can die walking over a trap as vitality points only measure the ability to avoid harm. if you just walk over a mine or a bomb is triggered near you, the damage goes to your wound points- so you can actually be killed instantly (if you are surprised for example)

 

this isn't reflected in kotor- so, the characters seem very powerful. i'd have mines ignore damage reduction and do more damage. that way, people will be forced to disarm the trap or get around it.

 

immunities (fire, ice etc) should be used for special weapons (flamethrower) or natural hazards, not traps.

[sniggy]

repair would actually make sense if the equipment would need repair after a while. they had something like that in jagged alliance for example.

 

others have already pointed out that security makes only sense if some doors cannot be opened otherwise or if the danger of setting of an alarm or a trap is too great.

 

the necessity of using security, demolitions and repair skills should be implemented in the game.

 

in general, the only skill i ever used was persuade- i put all points in there as it was the only one that really had effect on gameplay.

 

i like the idea of treat injury influencing the number of hit points gained by medpacks. some enhancers should also only be available with high treat injury skills

 

what kind of bothers me at kotor is that a character can't jump. there's no jump skill and there's no possibility to jump- or to run on walls. that kind of fun (like in jedi academy) is missing. too bad :lol:/

[ichpokhudezh]

i like the idea of treat injury influencing the number of hit points gained by medpacks. some enhancers should also only be available with high treat injury skills

 

what kind of bothers me at kotor is that a character can't jump. there's no jump skill and there's no possibility to jump- or to run on walls. that kind of fun (like in jedi academy) is missing. too bad :lol:/

Treat inj influences medpacks, etc already:

vitality points healed = 10 + TreInj + WisMod.

 

Jumping/simulator-level HtH fights are slightly different flavor of the game, imo. This will be implemented in JE.

[Sorwen]

They wanted to give you the choice is the big thing people seem to keep forgetting when it comes to skills. They wanted you to have the option to hak or you could hack with your lightsaber. There were no broken skills. I want more skills and more chances to use them, but I don't want there to be a situation where the only way I can proceed is with a skill. That wasn't the point of KoToR and I don't want it to be the point of KoToR2. It's all about choice. If you want to hak something or use security and instead you bash it that is your problem not mine.

[sniggy]

Treat inj influences medpacks, etc already:

vitality points healed = 10 + TreInj + WisMod.

*g* that''s why i said that i like the idea.

[ichpokhudezh]

I want more skills and more chances to use them, but I don't want there to be a situation where the only way I can proceed is with a skill. That wasn't the point of KoToR and I don't want it to be the point of KoToR2. It's all about choice. If you want to hak something or use security and instead you bash it that is your problem not mine.

Right. The point is, the use of skills was rewarded less (in xp).

And while there was _always_ a (should I say THE) way to hack through avoiding any use of skills whatsoever, you wouldn't be able to avoid fights in the similar manner. At the base line, fights mattered most. And thus the 'munchkin' wave has started (Do terms 2/18, 4/16, 9/11, GCH-Jedi sound familiar?..)

 

As usual, I'd vote for more choice instead of less

[sniggy]

They wanted to give you the choice is the big thing people seem to keep forgetting when it comes to skills. They wanted you to have the option to hak or you could hack with your lightsaber. There were no broken skills. I want more skills and more chances to use them, but I don't want there to be a situation where the only way I can proceed is with a skill. That wasn't the point of KoToR and I don't want it to be the point of KoToR2. It's all about choice. If you want to hak something or use security and instead you bash it that is your problem not mine.

i think that you are quite wrong. there's a matter of choice? why should i disarm something if i can run right through it? why should i pick locks if i can bash all the doors in? why should i use my skills if blunt, stupid plain action will do the trick faster and with the same result? the skills were pretty much useless. that's what we've been arguing here all along.

 

i want to have skills that actually influence gameplay. you can't disarm the trap because your skill isn't high enough? fine- search a different way to get in... or pick a party member who can disarm the trap.

 

i didn't even bother using mission because i could run around in my little jedi team and just run through traps- what's the point of that?

[Sorwen]

They wanted to give you the choice is the big thing people seem to keep forgetting when it comes to skills.  They wanted you to have the option to hak or you could hack with your lightsaber.  There were no broken skills.  I want more skills and more chances to use them, but I don't want there to be a situation where the only way I can proceed is with a skill.  That wasn't the point of KoToR and I don't want it to be the point of KoToR2.  It's all about choice.  If you want to hak something or use security and instead you bash it that is your problem not mine.

i think that you are quite wrong. there's a matter of choice? why should i disarm something if i can run right through it? why should i pick locks if i can bash all the doors in? why should i use my skills if blunt, stupid plain action will do the trick faster and with the same result? the skills were pretty much useless. that's what we've been arguing here all along.

 

i want to have skills that actually influence gameplay. you can't disarm the trap because your skill isn't high enough? fine- search a different way to get in... or pick a party member who can disarm the trap.

 

i didn't even bother using mission because i could run around in my little jedi team and just run through traps- what's the point of that?

Didn't you hear that someone else didn't do that? I always used security when I could and bashed when I couldn't. It was my choice. Forcing me to play like you want to play wouldn't be a choice. It was your decision to bash through something rather than use your skills. That doesn't mean they were broke. Just like it was your decision to play LS or DS. Your choice to play skillful or bash. Like I said the skills in the game were not broken.

[Chemix]

I think u may be overcomplicating something it a little too far. I wouldn't nerf any force powers or make it so u have to use skills anywhere. But it'd be nice to have more use of them yes. I in no way found treat injury useless, it served a good purpose when ur not a jedi. Med packs do so little for u it's rediculous. They should do alot more for u. I agree somewhat on the security part, but the consequences sound far too extreme. I would enjoy more computer puzzles, somewhat similar to those features in EF2 but implemented better. Such as rerouting power coduits to get power to a certain door that needs opening or away from a forcefield thats blocking u. The skill could determine the complexity of the puzzle. Low skills mean more work. High skills means less. And keypads, where u would enter codes or rewire them depending on ur skill level. If u didn't know the code u could go through the seiries of numbers until u got each number. But I wouldn't make things rely soley on these skills to get out of a broute force confrontation. That would make the player have to rely on skills too much. Mine damage should be upped a little but not to an instant kill, mabey with a deadly class mine but only something realy powerful, but not minor or average class mines. Mabey a trip mine with a laser that could be placed on walls. The problem with all this is, it's not an FPS where u can move around with the greatest of ease jumping and dodging of ur own free will, due to the engine u are constricted to a pre defined walk path to my knowledge. So u must walk or run to areas. U can't crouch and go through a tunnel or anything like that.

 

Also the downside to running through traps is u must waste force points healing and u don't get a free mine. I don't think that u should be forced to disarm or find different paths if u say focused on something else to get past something else more easily and didn't put enough into some certain skill. It would get rather tedious wouldn't it?

[ichpokhudezh]

Didn't you hear that someone else didn't do that? I always used security when I could and bashed when I couldn't. It was my choice. Forcing me to play like you want to play wouldn't be a choice. It was your decision to bash through something rather than use your skills. That doesn't mean they were broke. Just like it was your decision to play LS or DS. Your choice to play skillful or bash. Like I said the skills in the game were not broken.

Man, no need to get heated up like this.

A few illustrations/game examples:

Proper skill usage:

on Endar Spire, the room with a bunch of Sith troopers (the place where you get proto vibroblade). It was quite possible to just kill those guys (a few grenades is all it takes) but it made much more sense to use the droid/computer.

inside the Vulkar base: it is possible to fight laser turrets (try this sometime!), but it is much faster and easier to do it through computer.

Skills become nerfed after Taris:

Sandal's estate: Locks? Beh. Security? Beh. The prisoner's cell key in a box? Why bother?!!

Rogue droid: Mines? Lots of mines? Beh. Their effect was less than blaster fire damage (and the latter was easily neglected).

[Shdy314]

Don't know how anyone can say skills weren't broken. Obsidian agrees and has already stated they are trying to make skills more useful. Making skills influence the workbench is a big step. The point is not to force you to use skills you don't have the point is to make NPCs like T3 useful and to make it so that combat is not always the most attractive and easiest way to do everything. Besides it only makes sense there should be times stealth is a neccessary part of your actions. Infiltrate a Sith base? No problem. Breaks out lightsaber slaughters everything in sight. After all that's what Obi-wan does when he has to infiltrate the Death Star right? There's no point to having skills if there arent times they are the right choice instead of combat. Combat should always be the default way to handle things but it should be the most difficult. There should be consequences for always coming in guns blazing.

[ichpokhudezh]

Also the downside to running through traps is u must waste force points healing and u don't get a free mine. I don't think that u should be forced to disarm or find different paths if u say focused on something else to get past something else more easily and didn't put enough into some certain skill. It would get rather tedious wouldn't it?

Hmm. Assaulting the Sith compound with brute force should bring in some tedious fighting, don't you think? While sneaking in/disabling security should allow you to avoid the bulk of it.

 

On wasting FP: man, use Canderous to run through them and if you need to Heal at all and don't have enough FP to cast Heal a few times, you must be playing with a build as screwed up as DS Bastila.

 

A free mine: doh again, why bother? It's not like you were short on money after Taris... The only place where mines were actually useful is the Rancor encounter on Taris again.

 

I used to disarm mines as well, but screw-ups like party members running through them, Mission stopping mid-way to respond to fire... And there's no reward (you know, xp or time savings) for doing that...

[ichpokhudezh]

There's another cRPG I lust for: Vamprire Bloodlines.

Here's a FAQ on some upcoming features. I especially loved the distinction of getting police attention versus breaking masquerade.

Something like this (like, being recognized as Jedi by NPCs if wearing a lightsaber) would fit very well the KotOR setting...

[Chemix]

I'm just saying that it shouldn't be forced on people to have skill based stuff and the computer stuff should take a little work (keypads, power rerouting) as an option to spikes. EXP should be gained by destroying foes, it can't be a game just for people who like to bypass everything, though u should be rewarded for such aswell. But I dunno how u could get that working.

[Shdy314]

I'm just saying that it shouldn't be forced on people to have skill based stuff and the computer stuff should take a little work (keypads, power rerouting) as an option to spikes. EXP should be gained by destroying foes, it can't be a game just for people who like to bypass everything, though u should be rewarded for such aswell. But I dunno how u could get that working.

Why shouldn't it? Who would really think the most viable option for getting through a Sith base is basically a full frontal assault killing everything that moves? It's ludicrous. It is after all an RPG not an FPS. It isn't even an action RPG. I am not saying combat shouldn't be allowed. Just that there should be realistic consequnces for it and it should be a more difficult way to do some things. Sometimes it may be easier. Like in FO2 you could kill T-ray or pay him to get your car back or bluff you were Bishop's representative. Combat was the easiest way obviously. But most times especially playing LS combat should be avoided and skillful smart play like this should be rewarded. This would make playing LS trickier and more difficult making the DS much more attractive.

[ichpokhudezh]

EXP should be gained by destroying foes

See, this is what bothers me a lot in KotOR. How are you supposed to play LS at all if your main source of xp/money is murder?... Why using Dominate Mind to make somebody do something is bad (or a reason to be scorned) while excercising my offensive power for minute goals (a medpack, a few credits) is ok? Please mind that although I destroy foes I still destroy life (EDIT: thus, go against the Force, thus fall to DS, ergo should get DS points from a GM).

 

Kind of takes the 'RP' out of 'RPG' for me.

But I sort of realize that I belong to a minority of players.

[Chemix]

There is a difference between self defence, murder, taking revenge and stopping a sith lord from taking over the galaxy. First off it's a video game, u fight and kill enemies yes. If ur going LS does it become like GTA, no, it's just fighting sith who want to kill u. Choosing to kill defenceless people for credits often gives DS points, while helping/redeeming gives ls points. If u didn't get exp from killing enemies and had to sneak past all combat in the game for exp and remain ls, would get rather tedious and boring don't u think. Plus some people like LS yet enjoy having a good battle. U also have to deal with the issue of making the DS less rewarding, DS shouldn't be as rewarding as LS. LS and DS should have lots of action, not one be action and one be cowardly sneaking everywhere. To my knowledge destroying a life form doesn't make u DS, and also remember that this is a game as is supposed to be fun. I personaly prefer FPS games and wish kotor 2 had used an FPS engine with some RPG elements tied in hear and there instead of the horrible turn based system. Note that is only my opinion. KOTOR was the first RPG I ever played, it was an ok game, the graphics were ok, but the gameplay was terrible, everything else was good/realy good/ sometimes great even. But the gameplay seemed horribly unbalanced and horribly done (no offense RPGers) A rifle in the game is useless

[ichpokhudezh]

There is a difference between self defence, murder, taking revenge and stopping a sith lord from taking over the galaxy. First off it's a video game, u fight and kill enemies yes.

Hehe. Chemix, in SW RPG even an innocent or intended as a joke Force Push (Strike+Move, actually), like the one Bastila gave to Mission, on any sentient being earns you char a Dark Side point.

 

EDIT: not that I proclaim that a video game should follow the same ruleset, but I'd like to have an option (or, better yet, multiple options) for a non-violent/low-violence solution in most cases.

[Shdy314]

There is a difference between self defence, murder, taking revenge and stopping a sith lord from taking over the galaxy. First off it's a video game, u fight and kill enemies yes. If ur going LS does it become like GTA, no, it's just fighting sith who want to kill u. Choosing to kill defenceless people for credits often gives DS points, while helping/redeeming gives ls points. If u didn't get exp from killing enemies and had to sneak past all combat in the game for exp and remain ls, would get rather tedious and boring don't u think. Plus some people like LS yet enjoy having a good battle. U also have to deal with the issue of making the DS less rewarding, DS shouldn't be as rewarding as LS. LS and DS should have lots of action, not one be action and one be cowardly sneaking everywhere. To my knowledge destroying a life form doesn't make u DS, and also remember that this is a game as is supposed to be fun. I personaly prefer FPS games and wish kotor 2 had used an FPS engine with some RPG elements tied in hear and there instead of the horrible turn based system. Note that is only my opinion. KOTOR was the first RPG I ever played, it was an ok game, the graphics were ok, but the gameplay was terrible, everything else was good/realy good/ sometimes great even. But the gameplay seemed horribly unbalanced and horribly done (no offense RPGers) A rifle in the game is useless

Yes there is a big difference between self defense and killing. I am not advocating the removal of all combat at all. I just want combat to be realistic and LS players who actively seek it out should get DS points. Going into a Sith base guns blazing is asking for it. Do Qui-gon and Obi-wan run around the Trade Federation ship killing and destroying everything? No. They head for the bridge quickly and eventually end up retreating when faced with overwhelming odds. And they don't fight their way off the ship they sneak off. That's because even they are going to be overwhelmed by the security forces. I hate being able to walk into a heavily guarded Sith base on a Sith occupied world and killing everyone easily with no repercussions.

 

I don't want to sneak past every fight in the game. I just want the times you do fight to make sense. For example. you would avoid combat and sneak and sabotage your way to the Governor's room then fight him in a much more epic difficult battle. Makes much more sense. Technically the firing codes should be changed if an enemy force breaches a secure area and kills the governor who has said codes. I prefer getting XP for nothing but quests. Not for skill usage OR combat. This makes everything you do equal. Lockpicking the door and sneaking by is just as good as killing the guard. All that matters is the quest is completed.

 

It would NOT get tedious and boring to play intelligently instead of killing every single enemy you come across. Deus Ex for example is a lot of fun sneaking by guards, hacking security computers, dominating bots to kill for you. Notice that last part. Killing has it's place it just shouldn;t always be the best option for your player like it is in KOTOR. Anyways the idea IS that being LS demands a lot from the player thus making the DS more attractive. What are you really missing out on fighting some pathetic Sith troopers??? Limit the NECCESSARY fighting and make those fights much more challenging and memorable.

 

Uh why do I have to deal with the issue of DS being more rewarding? it IS supposed to be more rewarding. Sneaking through a base avoiding detection is an action. Don't see why you equate combat with action. Its not cowardly to sneak. Obi-wan sneaks around the Death Star. Still kills a few guards but otherwise evades detection. It's intelligent. Not cowardly. A coward wouldn't be in the base in the first place. You think special forces troops assault an enemy compound full on or do they sneak in, achieve their objectives, and get the hell out?

 

Killing everyone would help you slip down the DS path. If I were DMing I'd demand some increasingly good explanations for why they keep deciding they had to hack and slash 100 Sith troopers instead of sneaking out of the base so that no one would ever know they had even been there. Or why they keep choosing dialogue that they know is going to lead to a fight.

 

A game is still fun. Asking the player to perform intelligently and think about their actions increases the interactivity and realism in a big way while keeping it fun.

 

Now we finally see the problem. You are an FPSer. KOTOR is an RPG. RPGs should not be set up as FPS games. FPS games are certainly fun and have their place but they are very different from an RPG. Also KOTOR is not turnbased. You say the gameplay is terrible yet you seem to advocate the keeping of constant combat in unrealistic situations? Why? Perhaps the gameplay needs a change to become more enjoyable.

 

Ranged weapon effectiveness is irrelevant to this topic. But let me remind you this is not an FPS.

[Chemix]

Isn't Dues Ex an FPS? It's not like u can realy sneak around in kotor, not without stealth, and even then ur not realy using an alternate route or sneaking around gaurds, crawling through vents, ur just making urself invisible and bypassing everything directly. If u could crouch and sneak through air vents and mantinence areas, I could see a point to it, but u can't crouch, u can't jump, u are confined to walking the normal path with a stealth belt, and a very basic one so they hear u after u come close, and they are usualy next to doors and consoles. I can see why u would want to have an alternate no kill route to ur objective. But I don't think it should be forced on LS to play with stealth on 90% of the time, forced to play using skills, or if they kill a sith who is trying to shoot them they should get DS points, and they all want to shoot u, aslong as they use the enemy script they are to engage u on combat when u are in visual range.

 

Was it wrong for the rebels to blow up the death star, was it DS?

 

I'd like to be sneaking around bases but in kotor's engine it's just not feasibe, it'd be a boring cloaked run to the nearest console and use that to do everything.

 

One of the reasons I thought KOTOR's gameplay was terrible was because of the effectiveness of long range weapons. Which are aparently useless. Not only do u take turns shooting each, both turns mostly wasted as even though ur only a few feat from the other guy which is the only time u can attack him because for some reason u can't shoot him from outside the door, because most of the shots miss. Due to the "pseudo or whatever u call it turn based" system kotor uses it messes up gameplay comepletely, u want realism, get rid of the turns, get rid of the action que, get jump and crouch, let the player aim and fight on his own and let the special saber moves be like katas, u get the feat u are allowed to activated by doing certain actions. Yes I wish it was an FPS, FPS seemed to be more balanced, plus u can better sneak around in an interactive enviornment. Anyway this is all my opinion, and yes I know kotor 2 is not an FPS and will not be an FPS.

 

I think that if u took a poll on the bioware and obsidian forums u would find that not many people would like the idea of wandering around bases using stealth. But thats just what I think anyways

[sniggy]

A free mine: doh again, why bother? It's not like you were short on money after Taris... The only place where mines were actually useful is the Rancor encounter on Taris again.

has anyone actually used mines in the game? i have laid out mines in front of sith, rancors etc- and it was no use at all- they walked right through (just like me) and took SOME damage, but not enough to even bother

 

 

Don't know how anyone can say skills weren't broken. Obsidian agrees and has already stated they are trying to make skills more useful.

 

exactly. the only skill i used heavily (with t3) was the computer skill. slice in- kill everyone and then run around. which was also one thing i didn't like: why were all droids hooked up into some central computer? you could disable almost every one of them by slicing into the system.

 

same goes for overloading terminals. why the hell would you want to build something like that into your system? turning off lights would be nice. trapping people within a room by locking the doors is ok. unlocking security doors and shutting down cameras or security grids is fine. but "gas room"?

[sniggy]

How are you supposed to play LS at all if your main source of xp/money is murder?... Why using Dominate Mind to make somebody do something is bad (or a reason to be scorned) while excercising my offensive power for minute goals (a medpack, a few credits) is ok?

that's one thing that bugged me, too. while on taris, i could break into every apartment and just steal stuff. my companions didn't mind and no one else did. i didn't get ds points either.

 

i did the same kindda thing on various other planets- no one seems to mind a stealing jedi. strange.

 

as i said in some earlier post: the possiblity to spare opponents or to use alternative ways should be given and it should be connected to ls / ds points and experience

 

I can see why u would want to have an alternate no kill route to ur objective.

 

because after a while, you can beat the crap out of almost every one. there should at least be the option of blocking the shots of some would-be-thugs and then tell them to blow off or else... just like the gamorrean encounter on tattoine. you could just kill the piggies or persuade them that they might live through the day if they just leave you alone. see- that's the kind of thing i'd like to see on many more encounters.

 

take the darksiders- it was great being able to turn the twilek away from the dark side- but all others just mumbeld some "you will die" stuff and ended up whining because i sliced them apart with my lightsaber. there wasn't even the option of holding them off to tell them "to leave the dark path" or something like that.

 

they also didn't think "hmm. i'm fighting a jedi master and it looks like he's going to beat me up pretty good- maybe i should run away?"

 

i know that this is a mistake in almost every rpg, but take fallout- if your opponents had enough, they'd try to escape.

 

that's the kind of thing i'd like to see.

[Chemix]

Okay so u want all battle to stop when enemies reach half health then have the chance to redeem them or have them run away. It would get rather anoying. Slicing and dicing then when ur about to kill him, a dialog starts and they run away. If that were to happen every single time u went into combat it would get so anoying... The options on the consoles are things that u can do, it doesn't describe how u do it though. There isn't an actual overload button to my knowledge, it's the command to reroute alot of power to a certain conduit in a certain room, just with a simplified choice so u don't have to read all that text.

[Shdy314]

Isn't Dues Ex an FPS? It's not like u can realy sneak around in kotor, not without stealth, and even then ur not realy using an alternate route or sneaking around gaurds, crawling through vents, ur just making urself invisible and bypassing everything directly. If u could crouch and sneak through air vents and mantinence areas, I could see a point to it, but u can't crouch, u can't jump, u are confined to walking the normal path with a stealth belt, and a very basic one so they hear u after u come close, and they are usualy next to doors and consoles. I can see why u would want to have an alternate no kill route to ur objective. But I don't think it should be forced on LS to play with stealth on 90% of the time, forced to play using skills, or if they kill a sith who is trying to shoot them they should get DS points, and they all want to shoot u, aslong as they use the enemy script they are to engage u on combat when u are in visual range.

 

Was it wrong for the rebels to blow up the death star, was it DS?

 

I'd like to be sneaking around bases but in kotor's engine it's just not feasibe, it'd be a boring cloaked run to the nearest console and use that to do everything.

 

One of the reasons I thought KOTOR's gameplay was terrible was because of the effectiveness of long range weapons. Which are aparently useless. Not only do u take turns shooting each, both turns mostly wasted as even though ur only a few feat from the other guy which is the only time u can attack him because for some reason u can't shoot him from outside the door, because most of the shots miss. Due to the "pseudo or whatever u call it turn based" system kotor uses it messes up gameplay comepletely, u want realism, get rid of the turns, get rid of the action que, get jump and crouch, let the player aim and fight on his own and let the special saber moves be like katas, u get the feat u are allowed to activated by doing certain actions. Yes I wish it was an FPS, FPS seemed to be more balanced, plus u can better sneak around in an interactive enviornment. Anyway this is all my opinion, and yes I know kotor 2 is not an FPS and will not be an FPS.

 

I think that if u took a poll on the bioware and obsidian forums u would find that not many people would like the idea of wandering around bases using stealth. But thats just what I think anyways

Yes Deus Ex is an FPS. So what? You can quite literally sneak around in KOTOR. Unlike in games like MGS you can quite literally turn invisible just like in Deus Ex. It is quite possible to sneak around in KOTOR very effectively using the stealth belt. The problem is it is not worth it because among other things there are only two NPCS even remotely suited to stealthing with you. Bypassing something directly is not any different from going through an air vent or anything. Using Deus Ex 2 as a further example you could directly bypass guards and or cameras with the prper biomods. It's a lot of fun walking right by a giant killer robot and a camera instead of crawling through vents. Makes me feel really bada**.

 

They don't hear or detect you unless your stealth skill sucks. Which is why you'd want high stealth skill.

 

Interacting with doors or consoles doesn't disable your stealth field.

 

It should be forced on LS players to play intelligently and not to actively seek out situations where they know they have to kill. LS is HARD. Stop whining that LS players should have an easy time through the game. DS is supposed to be the easy way.

 

Killing a Sith who is trying to shoot you is not DS. But time after time choosing to attack and kill Sith (when viable smarter options are available) is bloodlust.

 

Oh is that how the script works thanks for the info buddy.

 

No it was fine for the rebels to blow up the Death Star. It would even have been fine for Jedi to blow up the Death Star. But that analogy is fallacious.

 

So you'd like to sneak around? In a game that allows sneaking? But think KOTOR would have been boring that way? Thank goodness we are discussing KOTOR2 and the designers can implement more ways to make skills kewl and skillful play useful. Would you really miss out on all that "action." Oooooh I killed my millionth Sith trooper. I just looked at him funny and he fell over dead. Personally I think blowing up conduits, turning droids against them and just generally wreaking havoc through a console is tons more fun.

 

Ranged weapons effectiveness as I said is totally irrelevant. All I will say is that for the last time this is not an FPS and combat focus was on the lightsaber. More powerful blasters would only have meant more damage when that bolt is deflected back.

 

Pseudo turnbased is the best option for fighting there is in an RPG. Otherwise you end up with an action RPG which is fine but KOTOR was never meant to be an action RPG. I don't want "realism" in every facet of the game or realism just for realism's sake I want my actions/options to be realistic and SMART gameplay (not neccessarily realistic) to be rewarded.

 

FPS are not more balanced. Take Halo. Fun game but even on legendary The fights are only challenging because they have so much hitpoints. You want every Sith trooper you face to have 200 hp? Too unrealistic.

 

I think the success of Splinter Cell and MGS would prove you wrong. Not to mention every FPS game coming out is using lighting sources so you can hide in the dark and sneak. Intelligent gameplay is a lot more satisfying which means much more fun. I would not start a poll saying do you want to "sneak through every base in KOTOR2" because in some instances like the Star Forge assaulting it with massive backup is a viable option given your objectives. My poll would be "would you like stealth to be a viable gameplay alternative AND intelligent gameplay such as this to be as rewarding as combat?" I think the response would be positive.

 

Often people when arguing try to take this route of I think most people agree with me. Don't go that route. This is just a friendly discussion on a silly message board. Just say what YOU think and start a poll to see how many agree. I haven't started a poll because I don't care if I am a minority. Is still a good discussion.

[Shdy314]

Okay so u want all battle to stop when enemies reach half health then have the chance to redeem them or have them run away. It would get rather anoying. Slicing and dicing then when ur about to kill him, a dialog starts and they run away. If that were to happen every single time u went into combat it would get so anoying... The options on the consoles are things that u can do, it doesn't describe how u do it though. There isn't an actual overload button to my knowledge, it's the command to reroute alot of power to a certain conduit in a certain room, just with a simplified choice so u don't have to read all that text.

He never said he wanted ALL battles to have enemies run away or give the option to redeem them. Is a silly argument tool to try and put words in someone else's mouth. Them reaching half health and surrendering every time IS realistic. By this point Im sure the Jedi has cut off their hand or something but you're right it WOULD get rather annoying. But he even pointed out in FO2 enemies would run away when low on hitpoints and I'm not sure but sometimes they'd run away right at the beginning of the fight. I could swear they actually realized I was in power armor sporting a gauss rifle and they were punks in leather jackets with smgs. WOW! Amazing. And not annoying at all.

 

In BG2 there is a really funny ORC that surrenders to you and it's just like "Thank you! Someone without the bravado of a religious zealot. They ambush me, shoot at me from behind fortified walls and I still manage to slaughter them and not a single one pleads for me to spare their life??? EVER?!" It also brought up an interesting moral choice. He IS an orc. He has attacked and killed humans before. Should you show mercy?

 

Right about the overload. That's just manipulation of the energy flow to overwhelm a conduit. But even I had to express disbelief when you gas a room. Why is toxic gas flowing through a pipe in a room with guards?