Prequel for Kotor series

[buzbey]

So bretherens of darkside and the padawans of the lightside; i think what we really need is a prequel about KoTOR 1 and 2.
It can be a story about how people reach their place and become the character they were at KoTOR 1-2 like "How brave and smart was the Mandalore at Mandalorian Wars?"
"Seeing exile using shadow mass generator"

"How and why Revan turned to darkside?"

"What was Kreia and council doing really?"

 "How and why(!?) Nihilius and Sion become Sith Lords?"

 

There are a lot of sweet questions like those above; but i can't list them all.

Maybe we can't change the timeline that ruined by TOR. However if we learn much more about the history; we can change our  view...

[Plutone00]

I'll assume when you are talking about prequel, you mean a prequel game. But there is no real need to make a game just to clear up origin stories. A book or a movie is enough. In fact some of your questions have already been answered in SW comics and force guides.

 

What made KotORs great was freedom of choice between LS and DS and how the game world reacted or even changed depending on the choices. The problem with prequels is they have to fit in already established universe and cannot stray away from canon. For example let's take Deus Ex that also prides itself on non-linear system. Deus Ex Human Revolution (prequel to Deus Ex 1) is a good game in its own right, but it could've been so much more. It had to sacrifice much of series trademark freedom of choice: you basically work for the same faction the whole game and at the end you LITERALLY push one of the "ending buttons", not to mention the endings themselves almost don't differ from each other, all because of the constrains preset by canon - the story has to continue in Deus Ex 1 which makes Deus Ex HR somewhat meaningless. I don't want the same to happen to KotOR. If there's gonna be a preqel story, it's better off being a book or a movie.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Plutone00

[Qistina]

Prequels should be in a form of Codex, books and stories from NPCs, it should not be as facts but something that can be argued. Such as in Dragon Age and TES where all the answers we found is not a part of the game itself, just stories, either we take it or not. That what make it fun to discuss on forums.

 

To make a game just to answer some questions is a waste of an effort, some may like the answer some may not, so better make it in a haze, it does explain things, but it is still arguable and not so important in the game we are currently playing

 

Lets look at Skyrim, there are many books if the player bother to read, i myself lazy enough to read them all, but sometimes it is interesting to learn somethings of the past lore and some arguments regarding it, but they all not so important

[buzbey]

I got your point; but a prequel is not just a historical codex. You remember the dialogue choises at Kotor 2 about Revan. With them we could change our views or the ending of Kotor 1 for a Kotor 2 playthrought. You can make different choises for Revan so he can either become a Sith or a Jedi for Kotor 2.

Still the dialogues about Revan always made him look much more responsible and characteristic unlike in Kotor 1
Like why not also make Nihilius main character; and a mystery about his mask(like it is a channeller for Force)... There are a lot of possiblities. Deux Ex  and Human Revolution is a good example; but i have got a better example:"KoTOR itself"! İt was also a prequel for Star Wars fim series isn't it? Did it was linear either 1-2? I am sure Obsidian can make better game scenario with nonlinear dialogue choises; because the scenario is not about the fiction but it is about the characters who scenario is based on.

Creating a protoganist like Revan in Kotor 1 or Shepard(Mass Effect) is not much of a work; because they don't have any humanly stupitidy. They simply act as cameraman or just a viewpoint so the story can move on; they don't have any uniqueness. They are not like exile or (stupid-intelligence less than 4- chosen one from Fallout 2).

Also do you really believe we can move on from the point where TOR is going to leave? I am  not even sure that bioware is going to end it soon; they also ruined SW Galaxies just to make TOR a little bit more profitible. They will add every content that they can think of to keep TOR alive; and make our hopes for KoTOR 3 stay dead; but a prequel can break that stupid circle.

What i was thinking is a little bit like jumping system on scenario like C&C Kane's Wrath(or Darksiders 2). We could get the answers for those questions i asked before; but also a prequel opens us new doors to future; like when we finished and learned who was Nihilius really. Is he really evil made flesh or did he made a choise like Revan did and that choise turned him into "a senseless walking Death Star"? After we can flash forward to the last point where Exile was fighting with him or her. We play as Nihilius  if we will have chosen the lightside we simply yield and accept our end with dignity and become one with the force. On the other hand if we were pure evil at the e.ndwhen falling before Exile: "Nihilius's soul spills a great rage to galaxy that can consume everything in a star system(like in Mass effect 2 DLC) or taint a cluster of galaxy(several star system). That would be "the Real Sith" which was a "just belief." Everyone tainted with dark energy of Nihilius will become darkside Force adepts; with an obsession to find and hurt Exile mentally.  Simply to say we haunt Exile to the very end It would be also a LOGICAL ANSWER FOR HOW SITH PUREBLOOD RACE REEMERGED; because if you read the expanded universe Exar Kun(or Ludo Kresh or someone i am really forgetful about names) had made tomb for himself and sacrificed evey Sith pureblood(after tuning them into beasts) to get an immortal sleep then he awakened after 2000 years and fought aganist Anakin Solo and Luke Skywalker. And The tomb was made -if i remember correctly- even before Mandalorean Wars. Purebloods normally must not exist in the galaxy anymore; but Bioware overlooked this piece of story; and overwritten it with TOR...

 

I really want to know how a person reached the bottom of darkness feels? How he or she sees things? How can someone stand his or herself while doing those evil deeds? Only really stupid and childish people can do really evill deeds like Hitler did.

Still i am not saying that it is the only way to make KoTOR 3; but it is a little bit easier. Because i know that when Kotor 2 was in programming phase; Obsidian was trying to make a really deep and philosphic scenario( My prior goal for KoTOR 3 is also the same). However that intent backfired and we only get a broken piece rock in the end(Malachor V). They couldn't connect the issues properly and they drowned in the abyss; which they had created. Lucasarts also was also responsible for this kind of ending(still i didn't hate it; i think it was better than Mass Effect trilogy ending). Because Lucasarts heavily pressured Obsidian about the release date (Deadline was irreasonably just before SW 3 movie).

 

Prequel is best option for Obsidian because as long as they stayed in the lines of story they created before they can get as deep as they want with character progression without totally missing the plot

So even the most stupid player; can understand what he or she is doing and why; if played any of KoTOR games. It is both hard( not to make a linear game) and easy(because  when creating deep characters; noone will lose the real plot)
 
I also have to say this: I hate Bioware because they made stupidly easier way to connect to story to KoTOR 2 by making Exile:"Surik"; unlike Obsidian( -Leaving the identity of Revan to our choises- is one of the reasons i respect them so much)

 

Edited December 26, 2013 by buzbey

[Plutone00]

Once again, the backstories you talking about have already been told in varios SW comics and books. If you want to see a full prequel made out of them, there is no real need for it to be a game.Just movie, TV series aven an anime is enough. Do you really want to destroy everything that made KotOR what it is just to make another game with KoTOR in its title, which would become another Deus Ex HR at best and TOR at worst? Real choice-and-conseqence system doen't exist in either of them and KotOR wouldn't be KotOR without it.

 

In case you are not familiar with SW lore, wookiepedia ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page ) is your friend. Back when KoTOR 1 was made, the timeline after Exar Kun's death (year 3994 Before Battle of Yavin ) up until Darth Bane's birth (year 1024 Before Battle of Yavin) was not yet clearly established, which gave developers a lot of freedom and culminated in a great game. Now in order for KoTOR 2 to happen and more imporantly (from Lucas's perspective) to keep to SW canon and keep Republic alive until Episode 3 (year 19 Before the Battle of Yavin), some constraints had to be put, namely Revan's disappearance (which diminished KoTOR 1 value) and everything falling apart. Obsidian still tried to make the best of it and while not as epic as an original, KoTOR 2 still turned out to be a good game. Fast forward to nowadays and civil wars era is already so established with additional lore that there is no more real room for KoTOR type of game - the constraints from all sides would not allow for a true freedom of choice.

 

So your only real hope is for Disney to hit a "reset button" on the whole SW universe (and it really needs it as all eras have been screwed too much over the years, not just civil wars era).

Edited December 26, 2013 by Plutone00

[buzbey]

Once again, the backstories you talking about have already been told in varios SW comics and books. If you want to see a full prequel made out of them, there is no real need for it to be a game.Just movie, TV series aven an anime is enough. Do you really want to destroy everything that made KotOR what it is just to make another game with KoTOR in its title, which would become another Deus Ex HR at best and TOR at worst? Real choice-and-conseqence system doen't exist in either of them and KotOR wouldn't be KotOR without it.

 

In case you are not familiar with SW lore, wookiepedia ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page ) is your friend. Back when KoTOR 1 was made, the timeline after Exar Kun's death (year 3994 Before Battle of Yavin ) up until Darth Bane's birth (year 1024 Before Battle of Yavin) was not yet clearly established, which gave developers a lot of freedom and culminated in a great game. Now in order for KoTOR 2 to happen and more imporantly (from Lucas's perspective) to keep to SW canon and keep Republic alive until Episode 3 (year 19 Before the Battle of Yavin), some constraints had to be put, namely Revan's disappearance (which diminished KoTOR 1 value) and everything falling apart. Obsidian still tried to make the best of it and while not as epic as an original, KoTOR 2 still turned out to be a good game. Fast forward to nowadays and civil wars era is already so established with additional lore that there is no more real room for KoTOR type of game - the constraints from all sides would not allow for a true freedom of choice.

 

So your only real hope is for Disney to hit a "reset button" on the whole SW universe (and it really needs it as all eras have been screwed too much over the years, not just civil wars era).

There is little truth in your saying; because you are not reading my comments. If you did; you would have know that SWTOR has already altered the timeIine with putting Sithpureblood in the game and by putting that knowledge here i also proven that i read "wookipedia". Sadly unlike Obsidian noone is giving a thought about the expanded universe; and its' stories. 

I have read all of wookipedia nearly 4 or 5 years ago; but it won't be bad if i reread them; memorize them. thank you for advise.

Still trolling me about SW wiki is not gonna help anyone.   But i am sorry that i made a long and unreadible comment; you have a right to punish me about this   

If you have a better idea i would love to listen; as i said before making a prequel story is not the only way. But there is a need  of rebuild like in the new Batman movies.

I know there are a lot of possibilities to make a game about near future of the Old Republic; but we would have to wait at least 2 or more  years to end of SWTOR. They are not gonna give up on their so called "Masterpiece" too quickly. Untill SWTOR is finished no KOTOR 3 can exist about future; am i wrong? While SWTOR existing only possible way of making a KOTOR 3 about future is a side(!)story.

 

Plot of the scenario is important; but what Obsidian give more thought is the characters and their developments. I know they can start a new story with a new plot but doing that with an original point of view is really hard these days. 

 

I am not telling that we will return 100 or 200 hundred years back; Just getting return to the Mandalorean Wars is enough. But that would be just a starting point. Story does not have to stay at that time. There can be fast forwards till to the end of KOTOR 2 and 50 years more can be processed in that game. So it is also possible starting from the future then making flashbacks. But that kind of turning back is a common system in mangas and animes (like in Berserk manga or Tenjou Tenge etc.). 

 

The system i am suggesting is used to rebuild Batman; Spiderman(right now for new series) and Command and Conquer 3 Kane's Wrath. Were they so bad?

 

Either Obsidian can do this or they have to rebuild the KoTOR series from the start.

I know it won't be a real stand alone game; but without this; i fear the whole KoTOR series will become nothing more than a uselles sidestory about SW universe just remembered by the disaster of SWTOR. Bioware had a ruptured scenario both for KoTOR 1 and SWTOR that is leading to demise of the story.

 

 

I know my suggestion has a big flaw about freedom in the game. However there is allso a problem that KoTOR series are not a "GTA". Making a game like "GTA" is hard; and expensive; also for me useless because that kind of thing is not a game but a just a simulation of possibilites. I am sure that GTA will be catalist for destruction of idea of freedom. Because if stupid politician start to see the power of GTA they will start to simulate the possibilities for future politics. With the knowledge they get they will make their political choises which will turn them into just data processors; and they will be glad to become tools like that. That is  why i hate GTA so much.

 

Freedom is not just about the actions we made but about the ideas we believe. I want to believe that Nihilius was a good man at the start;and give others a chance to see the facts happened in KoTOR series in a different light. The system i am suggesting will give us this opportunity; but if it will not be used in a game; then i will be forced to write a book about it

Edited December 26, 2013 by buzbey

[Plutone00]

There is little truth in your saying; because you are not reading my comments.

 

 

I've explained to you why another KotOR can't be done during civil wars era (well it could really, but it won't be KotOR) and you still refuse to listen (now I also have a cause to suspect that you don't read my posts...).

 

 

you would have know that SWTOR has already altered the timeIine with putting Sithpureblood in the game and by putting that knowledge here i also proven that i read "wookipedia". Sadly unlike Obsidian noone is giving a thought about the expanded universe; and its' stories. 

I have read all of wookipedia nearly 4 or 5 years ago; but it won't be bad if i reread them; memorize them. thank you for advise.

 

 

What does you reading wookiepedia 5 years ago has to do with Bioware putting pureblood sith in TOR mmo? Don't answer that. They have not altered anything. Many remnants of the original sith empire survived  the great hyperspace war, like the lost tribe, which eventually came to blows with Luke Skywalker's new jedi order (but since you are supposedly familiar with sw lore you should know that much, right?)

 

Still trolling me about SW wiki is not gonna help anyone.

 

 

Seriosly, I'm not even trying to troll you here, buzbey. You just haven't covered all the angles behind your idea, which I point out to you. There is no intentional malice here.

 

 

But there is a need  of rebuild like in the new Batman movies.

 

 

Like I've said, this won't happen unless Disney desides to push a "reset button" to clean up the whole sw universe (and God knows, there is a lot of cleaning up needed). But that will probably not happen for quite a while, at least not until they've produced a couple of movies to make money off existing sw universe.

 

They are not gonna give up on their so called "Masterpiece" too quickly. Untill SWTOR is finished no KOTOR 3 can exist about future; am i wrong? While SWTOR existing only possible way of making a KOTOR 3 about future is a side(!)story.

 

Plot of the scenario is important; but what Obsidian give more thought is the characters and their developments. I know they can start a new story with a new plot but doing that with an original point of view is really hard these days. 

 

I am not telling that we will return 100 or 200 hundred years back; Just getting return to the Mandalorean Wars is enough. But that would be just a starting point. Story does not have to stay at that time. There can be fast forwards till to the end of KOTOR 2 and 50 years more can be processed in that game. So it is also possible starting from the future then making flashbacks. But that kind of turning back is a common system in mangas and animes (like in Berserk manga or Tenjou Tenge etc.). 

 

The system i am suggesting is used to rebuild Batman; Spiderman(right now for new series) and Command and Conquer 3 Kane's Wrath. Were they so bad?

 

Either Obsidian can do this or they have to rebuild the KoTOR series from the start.

I know it won't be a real stand alone game; but without this; i fear the whole KoTOR series will become nothing more than a uselles sidestory about SW universe just remembered by the disaster of SWTOR. Bioware had a ruptured scenario both for KoTOR 1 and SWTOR that is leading to demise of the story.

 

 

Anything before 19 BBY is still technically Old Republic. If KotOR 3 was to happen under existing conditions with preexisting lore, it would make sense for it to take place place during Dragguch Period (2000-1000 BBY). A thousand years after the events of TOR mmo everything is forgotten and doesn't matter anymore. A good place to start anew and what an existing period: reastablishment of a new sith empire from scratch, jedi breaking tradition and going into politics becoming chancellors, kings and princes. And most importantly until Darth Bane's birth in 1026 BBY there are not many critial historical events, so developers of the game would not have to deal with constraints of existing lore much. They'll have a kind of freedom Bioware had with KoTOR 1 to make a true choice-and-consequence game.

 

 

I know my suggestion has a big flaw about freedom in the game. However there is allso a problem that KoTOR series are not a "GTA". Making a game like "GTA" is hard; and expensive; also for me useless because that kind of thing is not a game but a just a simulation of possibilites. I am sure that GTA will be catalist for destruction of idea of freedom. Because if stupid politician start to see the power of GTA they will start to simulate the possibilities for future politics. With the knowledge they get they will make their political choises which will turn them into just data processors; and they will be glad to become tools like that. That is  why i hate GTA so much.

 

 

GTA has done a lot to ruin videogames image over the years. I do not see what it has to do with KotOR specifically though. GTA is an open world action game while KotOR is story-driven non-linear RPG.

 

Freedom is not just about the actions we made but about the ideas we believe. I want to believe that Nihilius was a good man at the start;and give others a chance to see the facts happened in KoTOR series in a different light. The system i am suggesting will give us this opportunity

 

 

What you were suggesting would also unmake KotOR. I'm sure we would see everything in a different light, but it would not be KotOR anymore, just simply another sw game.

 

but if it will not be used in a game; then i will be forced to write a book about it

 

 

Go for it. That's what I've been telling you all along.