On magic shielding and scrying: Buffs vs passives

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hi all!

 

I have played D&D-based computer games for years, and I certainly love much about them, but there is one thing that always has felt like an unnecessary chore, and that is what I may collectively call "magic shielding". One's magic user or cleric or what not got important spells at certain level-ups, and often these had long durations as well (and of course, resting made them almost endless in supply). What was bugging me, and it still does, is the extremely repetitive nature of having to cast these shielding spells not only your PC, but then the entire party.

For instance, from the world of D&D: prot. from alignment, endure elements, bark skin, stone skin, globe of invulnerability, etc.

 

I must add that several spells were like detect traps-skills, like detect undead, and so forth, let us call these "scrying", and that was also a pain in the ass to keep up and running after each rest, encounter, etc. Often a change of an area, some loading, etc, this magic shielding and scrying would go away, so you were de-buffed, as it were, and to do it all over again.

 

If there would be one mechanic that PE could make much smoother, it is this. The question is how, and I would bet the most simple solution would be passives, and by passives I mean that once you learn what otherwise would be a 4h spell of protection of alignment 10 radius, that kind of spell is always on, coz I mean it would normally be that anywy, it is just so hard and boring to make it so all the time. Obviously, if spells are interchangeable you could turn off one passive-slot for another slot (long-lasting buff spell).

 

As for short-lasting buff spells, they would have to be limited to a normal length of an encounter, we're talking seconds here, and that could well mean those dreaded countdowns. I for one to not fear them the least.

 

Please say what you think in the matter.

 

P.S. The terms "passives" and "countdowns" is no invite to some Diablo 3-skill trees and gaming mechanics, just concepts to improve the use of spells and the flow of the gaming experience.

[Hypevosa]

simply selecting a spell slot to "sacrifice" to always have that buff on sounds reasonable to me instead of forcing it to be cast repeatedly.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Agreed. I'm playing through NWN2 yet again, and not only is it tedious to cast the long-lasting buffs, the sound and graphics of the spell itself is intrusive and too much of a X-mas-tree-lights-thing, and when they stack the pcs look like a X-mas tree and not the heroes you want. I think subtler effects of any kind of spell buffs is also a good idea for PE.

[metiman]

Hi all!

 

I have played D&D-based computer games for years, and I certainly love much about them, but there is one thing that always has felt like an unnecessary chore, and that is what I may collectively call "magic shielding". One's magic user or cleric or what not got important spells at certain level-ups, and often these had long durations as well (and of course, resting made them almost endless in supply). What was bugging me, and it still does, is the extremely repetitive nature of having to cast these shielding spells not only your PC, but then the entire party.

For instance, from the world of D&D: prot. from alignment, endure elements, bark skin, stone skin, globe of invulnerability, etc.

 

I must add that several spells were like detect traps-skills, like detect undead, and so forth, let us call these "scrying", and that was also a pain in the ass to keep up and running after each rest, encounter, etc. Often a change of an area, some loading, etc, this magic shielding and scrying would go away, so you were de-buffed, as it were, and to do it all over again.

 

If there would be one mechanic that PE could make much smoother, it is this. The question is how, and I would bet the most simple solution would be passives, and by passives I mean that once you learn what otherwise would be a 4h spell of protection of alignment 10 radius, that kind of spell is always on, coz I mean it would normally be that anywy, it is just so hard and boring to make it so all the time. Obviously, if spells are interchangeable you could turn off one passive-slot for another slot (long-lasting buff spell).

 

As for short-lasting buff spells, they would have to be limited to a normal length of an encounter, we're talking seconds here, and that could well mean those dreaded countdowns. I for one to not fear them the least.

 

Please say what you think in the matter.

 

P.S. The terms "passives" and "countdowns" is no invite to some Diablo 3-skill trees and gaming mechanics, just concepts to improve the use of spells and the flow of the gaming experience.

 

Ugh. This is just the sort of "streamlining" that I hate. If you find buffs too much of a PITA to use then, I don't know, how about not using them? I never consistently have every possible buff cast. In fact I rarely buff at all before battle and then only use the ones most critical for that particular fight and use them sparingly. In BG2 with Sword Coast Strategems most mages always cast all long term protection spells that they have before battle. I found this a bit cheesy because I never do that. At most I'll have stoneskin cast on my mages. I asked the mod author about why there was no option to turn that off and he said something like, "Why would you want mages to act foollishly.". While that is a good point, the fact remains that not everyone is constantly constraint optimizing in every way. And as far as just making all long acting buffs into some kind of extended ability, I don't see the point and I think making them that easy would affect the balance of that class. Other aspects of the class might have to be nerfed or the XP progression might have to be altered to make the class level up more slowly to make up for it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Metiman, thanks for your reply. I see where you're coming from, in many ways you argue for the RPG-aspect of it: Instead of optimizing the adventure via buffs, you do them before big fights or something. But here Obsidian has a chance to build a fresh CRPG that is actually free from what once was pen-n-paper restraints (which is where I come from). Your last issues about balance and OP-problems are no problems at all, as Obsidian will build those passives of magic shielding and scrying from the ground up. I just think it is an unnecessary element in a computer game. I do not like streamlining in CRPG in general, I want this game to be something else, more RPG and strategical (see other posts I've made), but in this regard I think I agree with the direction that designers have already began to head in as far as spell goes. They said that it was a bit absurd about having not memorized the right spells, and then player reload after dying, and goes on with the game. They have the chance to do something else without sacrificing depth, strategy and other vitals.

Edited October 3, 2012 by IndiraLightfoot