Crime and punishment

[Walsingham]

Agree with you 100% about the gang influence. I think more needs to be done to isolate and neutralise (not that kind of neutralise) gang leaders. Because one character can drag a whole mob of simple halfwits into crime.

Personally I think that the same should be extended to the saner elements of the gang, those that are salvageable human beings. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that economy factors into this behavior but; are most of these gangs from low income environments? If so there should be outreach programs targeting those areas.

 

Anyone who think criminal gangs only come from disadvantaged backgrounds has never been to public school.

[Orogun01]

Agree with you 100% about the gang influence. I think more needs to be done to isolate and neutralise (not that kind of neutralise) gang leaders. Because one character can drag a whole mob of simple halfwits into crime.

Personally I think that the same should be extended to the saner elements of the gang, those that are salvageable human beings. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that economy factors into this behavior but; are most of these gangs from low income environments? If so there should be outreach programs targeting those areas.

 

Anyone who think criminal gangs only come from disadvantaged backgrounds has never been to public school.

Only for 2 years, thankfully. Biggest waste of time in my life.

 

But don't public schools have security and counselors to nip these problems at the bud. I know the security guards had me targeted, because of asocial behavior.

[Walsingham]

Agree with you 100% about the gang influence. I think more needs to be done to isolate and neutralise (not that kind of neutralise) gang leaders. Because one character can drag a whole mob of simple halfwits into crime.

Personally I think that the same should be extended to the saner elements of the gang, those that are salvageable human beings. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that economy factors into this behavior but; are most of these gangs from low income environments? If so there should be outreach programs targeting those areas.

 

Anyone who think criminal gangs only come from disadvantaged backgrounds has never been to public school.

Only for 2 years, thankfully. Biggest waste of time in my life.

 

But don't public schools have security and counselors to nip these problems at the bud. I know the security guards had me targeted, because of asocial behavior.

 

I'm exaggerating, obviously, for comic effect. English public schools didn't have security guards back in my day. They might now. But you certainly had gangs who would inflict misbehaviour on the surrounding community. Although they could not do so at a high level, because if the school foudn out it would have ejected all the main members of said gang.

 

State schools, with exemplary one-size-fits-all socialist* lunacy refuse to treat a young sociopath as anything other than a regular citizen, and consequently nothing useful is done to tackle them.

 

 

*I never used to use the term socialist as a pejorative. Isn't that interesting?

[Orogun01]

I'm exaggerating, obviously, for comic effect. English public schools didn't have security guards back in my day. They might now. But you certainly had gangs who would inflict misbehaviour on the surrounding community. Although they could not do so at a high level, because if the school foudn out it would have ejected all the main members of said gang.

 

State schools, with exemplary one-size-fits-all socialist* lunacy refuse to treat a young sociopath as anything other than a regular citizen, and consequently nothing useful is done to tackle them.

 

 

*I never used to use the term socialist as a pejorative. Isn't that interesting?

From what I can tell of my 2 year stint; there weren't so much as gangs as the expected social strata of high school. Interestingly enough there was a undisclosed, unconscious arrangement amongst as to what the territorial lines where. Goths would hang out in the same place at lunch, same for jocks and nerds were kind of left out to spread around.

The most disruptive elements amongst where the recent immigrants and wannabe ganstas, the action that the school took against them was sufficient. Suspension all around to anyone who started a fight.

 

But outwardly aggressive gangs are not the problem, the small introverted groups are. Which the school kindly "tracks" any student liable to start another Columbine, Americans are kind of touchy about that. Aside from that there was no effort on the school system to address those issues, counselors are just that in name and if a teacher doesn't feel like going out their way to reach out, the youth is left at their mercy. Verily an pathologically impersonal environment, which is a factor as why well adapted people may end up in these types of gangs. Crisis of identity, biological imperative, and the basic social needs of life that are ever present in youth, mix it all up and you get someone that puts up with a lot just because they don't want to be alone.

[Walsingham]

LOL comms failure: by public school I mean:

 

 

while you mean:

 

[Orogun01]

Well the difference it's starking, you mean to tell me that the public's schools in england don't have criminal gangs?

 

In any case peer pressure still applies, specially in gangs or small social clubs like you brits have BTW what's with the Harold Lloyd hats?

[Walsingham]

Well the difference it's starking, you mean to tell me that the public's schools in england don't have criminal gangs?

 

In any case peer pressure still applies, specially in gangs or small social clubs like you brits have BTW what's with the Harold Lloyd hats?

 

No. You have social groupings who engage in varying degrees of violence/theft/drug dealing. But of course nothing like the same degree or scale as a proper gang. As you yourself observe, it is the dynamics which are the same, not the extent.

 

I don't know what the deal with the hats is. I didn't go to 'Eton and Harrer'. Hence I feel secure mocking them.

[Orogun01]

No. You have social groupings who engage in varying degrees of violence/theft/drug dealing. But of course nothing like the same degree or scale as a proper gang. As you yourself observe, it is the dynamics which are the same, not the extent.

 

I don't know what the deal with the hats is. I didn't go to 'Eton and Harrer'. Hence I feel secure mocking them.

I see, what about organization or goals are they the same as with a proper gang?

Because strangely enough a lot of the gangs stateside actually support family life and it's one of the permitted means to leave the gang. Although and I think that I said this before, its the younger elements that seem to be more aggressive. Hormones, insecurities, the need to establish a name for themselves within the gang, I don't really know why.

Which is probably why I think violent youth should have another way to succeed aside from gangs; of course this only address half the cause, but at the same time a lot of the major gangs seek to recruit youth from afflicted schools.

 

Our programs in this regard are inefficient, most of them consist of a speech by a ex-gang member or punitive measures. Problem is that without a rapport to keep them away from crime a lot of them just get in deeper. Gangs are a social element and the most effective way out of them is by moving on to another social element (community, family) for a troubled youth this is not a likely case since they relate more to their social circle than community or family. The biggest problem with the major gangs is that they have evolved from a interpersonal management mode into a hierarchy with it's own rules.

[Walsingham]

I wouldn't have said they were the same as a proper gang. Proper gangs to my mind establish themselves as a source of meaningful identity. Even the worst 'gangs' I ever heard of at boarding schools were just a vehicle for providing idle sadistic amusement, illicit capital, or drugs. Because generally there was always something after school to move into, be it University or the Army or whatever.

 

I feel like we're almost drifting into a new topic, but I've had good talks with Stateside gang intervention charities. It's a fascinating business, and I urge you to look up any in your area.

[Orogun01]

I wouldn't have said they were the same as a proper gang. Proper gangs to my mind establish themselves as a source of meaningful identity. Even the worst 'gangs' I ever heard of at boarding schools were just a vehicle for providing idle sadistic amusement, illicit capital, or drugs. Because generally there was always something after school to move into, be it University or the Army or whatever.

 

I feel like we're almost drifting into a new topic, but I've had good talks with Stateside gang intervention charities. It's a fascinating business, and I urge you to look up any in your area.

Yeah we have gone a little off topic.

 

Still a little related since aside from the economical causes for crime there is vast social aspect to it. Even going back in time you can see structured crime, which is the endpoint for a lot juvenile gangs. But from what you say those boarding school gangs seems like a they only dabble in crime whereas on the other hand most of the high school gangs are just a social group with some ties to people involved in actual crime. Also in the same fashion a lot them don't end up becoming hardcore criminals, provided that they stay away from the system.